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The Failure of ‘Defund the Police’

MTAtech said:
While right-wingers have latched onto the literal words of “defund the police,” that isn’t what proponents mean. The term means take social service functions, like responding to a mentally ill person, away from the police and give it to personnel trained in handling the mentally ill.

While the author of that National Review piece attempts to hang the problem of police abuse around the necks of Democrats, it’s a nationwide problem.

In the last 20 years we see police overreach in New Orlean, Arkansas, and other Republican controlled areas.

Police brutality by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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"the literal words of “defund the police,” that isn’t what proponents mean."

Oh no, they lied to you too?

Rashida Tlaib Calls For ‘No More Policing’ in Wake of Daunte Wright Killing
 
Antiwar said:
I don't hide my political positions, if that's what your attempted reframing is implying. You can keep digging and stay ignorant of the social justice movements, if you want.
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Another stupid post... as if there was any expected change...
 
It's coming. Cops, by and large, are useless. Who here has ever gotten their stereo back after their car was broken into? Who here needed someone with a gun to show up and tell them there was a noise complaint? Who has ever seen a cop use a taser or a gun or a baton to improve a situation when dealing with the homeless?

Does a cop really need a gun to ask me about my expired tags? Doesn't the DMV already know if my tags are expired or not?

Let's take away their guns and see how many situations stop escalating.
 
MTAtech said:
While right-wingers have latched onto the literal words of “defund the police,” that isn’t what proponents mean.
Click to expand...
then they should probably rephrase, when someone says something that they don't mean it means that that someone is a liar.
The term means take social service functions, like responding to a mentally ill person, away from the police and give it to personnel trained in handling the mentally ill.
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and when these people start getting beaten up and killed what then?

It's not a bad idea to work with mentally ill people in a way that isn't adversarial when you say defund the police it doesn't mean any of that it means take away the police funding.

That's the importance of saying what you mean instead of repeating slogans that are profoundly stupid.
While the author of that National Review piece attempts to hang the problem of police abuse around the necks of Democrats, it’s a nationwide problem.
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I'm not sure there's a police abuse issue and most of these cases that people want to make him do a police abuse issue The killing was justified, or it was accidental. The only one I can think of that isn't that way is the Eric Garner case. I also don't think Sandra bland's killing was justified but she committed suicide that wasn't police abuse that made that happen.
[QUOT
In the last 20 years we see police overreach in New Orlean, Arkansas, and other Republican controlled areas.

Police brutality by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
[/QUOTE] but is it though? In Democrat strongholds people don't have a right to the property because the hordes of rioters will just burn It down and the police do nothing.

The only instance out of the series of issues that I could think of that was an actual police abuse was there Garner and that was in New York.

Show me the the police are being abusive in New Orleans and arkansas.
 
Antiwar said:
Are you intellectually dishonest and/or ignorant when you post abrasive straw man arguments?
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Sorry you don’t like the argument from the left. Take it up with them.
 
braindrain said:
Sorry you don’t like the argument from the left. Take it up with them.
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I'll take arguments as they are presented by those that make them.
 
MTAtech said:
While right-wingers have latched onto the literal words of “defund the police,” that isn’t what proponents mean. The term means take social service functions, like responding to a mentally ill person, away from the police and give it to personnel trained in handling the mentally ill.

While the author of that National Review piece attempts to hang the problem of police abuse around the necks of Democrats, it’s a nationwide problem.

In the last 20 years we see police overreach in New Orlean, Arkansas, and other Republican controlled areas.

Police brutality by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
Actually, this is yet another example of the political let (Democrats, liberals, progressives) contorting the meaning of words which had meanings to mean something different, suitably contorted to support the political narrative and political agenda.

What happened to 'words have meanings'?
Changed due to the priority of the demanded political narrative.
Such are Democrats, liberals, progressives.
Can't trust a single word that comes out of their mouths.
 
braindrain said:
You don’t seem to get it. Police departments are supposed to be much more selective on who they hire and give those people much more training and do all that with much less money.
It makes perfect sense if you look at it from a liberal point of view.
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That's exactly what cons think about educators.
 
CaughtInThe said:
Police departments were never going to be completely defunded.

What is happening, and should have happened a long time ago, is Police dpartments are now under the microscope. Governmental abuse should not happen regardless of which governmental department it is.
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Of course not. It was an internet meme, something for the pundits to wring their hands about.

This piece is full of the usual rationalizations and excuses.

And it’s a big straw man argument for opposing something that was more rhetoric then reality.

On the other hand, if conservatives can keep the discussion on this dishonest level, it will provide cover for teh very real fact that in a year full of egregious incidents involving police and minorities, no action was taken during the Trump Administration (other than noisy blame the victim campaigns, culminating in June 1st), and none is likely to be taken with the Republican Senate.

So the readers of the National Review had better get used to this. Because until there is meaningful reform, incidents like these are going to continue to multiply and the heat will rise accordingly.
 
eohrnberger said:
More police training to better handle situations where the subject makes stupid decisions and escalates the situation, and being more selective who should be cops may not be all that out of line. But that's only 1/2 of the parties who are involved. What to do with the subjects who make stupid decisions and escalates the situation?

How to address that? PSAs? Police community out reach? Greater communication with the community to show how dangerous and unpredictable policing is?

Focusing on only 1/2 the parties involved is only going to get you a 1/2 solution.
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Focusing on 1/2 the problem is what right wing media and the deplorables have embraced.

Every one of these incidents is accompanies by a chorus of excuse making, blame the victim, denial and outright open bigotry.

No one does anything more than pay empty lip service to ideas like “more police training .....” as you did. It’s very clear that you could care less about that half, as long as Trump nation has a convenient, foreign, black, asian or hispanic victim to blame.

And it shows.

Not just in the blatantly racist rhetoric.

But also in teh lack of action. It has been a year since George Floyd’s murder became the latest in a series of hideous incidents between police and minority communies all around the country.

But neither the Trump Administration nor the GOP Congress even discussed any meaningful reforms, much less even funding.

And McConnell is fighting hard for more of the same.

Which will guarantee that there will be more George Floyd’s, and more nights of protest.
 
TomFitz said:
Focusing on 1/2 the problem is what right wing media and the deplorables have embraced.

Every one of these incidents is accompanies by a chorus of excuse making, blame the victim, denial and outright open bigotry.

No one does anything more than pay empty lip service to ideas like “more police training .....” as you did. It’s very clear that you could care less about that half, as long as Trump nation has a convenient, foreign, black, asian or hispanic victim to blame.

And it shows.

Not just in the blatantly racist rhetoric.

But also in teh lack of action. It has been a year since George Floyd’s murder became the latest in a series of hideous incidents between police and minority communies all around the country.

But neither the Trump Administration nor the GOP Congress even discussed any meaningful reforms, much less even funding.

And McConnell is fighting hard for more of the same.

Which will guarantee that there will be more George Floyd’s, and more nights of protest.
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Little more than the often repeated same old baseless accusations and dishonest narratives.

Every one of these incidents is accompanied by premature jumping to conclusions, seeding of dishonest and distorting politically driven narratives, incitement of rioting for perceived political advantage,
Just as an example, 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' has been debunked as a complete fabrication, never happened, and yet still used by the left to incite protesters following these incidents.

The same goes for the baseless and fact less accusation that there is a 'Police genocide of blacks', when FBI crime statistics disprove that. Simply more of the left's dishonesty.

All this played to defund and disband police, the inevitable result of which puts minority communities at greater risk of criminal violence, the Ferguson effect.

Minority polling results show support for greater policing, not less, for more police funding, not less.
​

Black Americans Want Police to Retain Local Presence​

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- When asked whether they want the police to spend more time, the same amount of time or less time than they currently do in their area, most Black Americans -- 61% -- want the...​

Gallup: 81 Percent Of Black Americans Want Police, Some ...​

A new Gallup poll released Wednesday shows an overwhelming majority of black Americans, 81 percent, support either the same amount or an increased police presence in their communities.​

Many Blacks want more police presence, research shows. But ...​

Many Blacks want more police presence, research shows. But they also need better policing. American novelist F. Scott Fitzgerald remarked, "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to...​

81% of Black Americans want police to maintain or increase ...​

Around 20% of Black people polled said they would like to see an increased police presence compared to 19% of respondents who favor the police spend less time in their area. Asian Americans were...​
​
So who, exactly, is calling for defunding / disbanding the police? And at who's cost will the results of that be? Certainly not the ones who calling calling for such defunding and disbanding.

More and more it seems like it is impossible to have a conversation or discussion founded in honesty with the left on just about anything.
 
Phys251 said:
That's exactly what cons think about educators.
Click to expand...
And I care about that in regards to this conversation because of why exactly.
Oh that’s right it doesn’t matter and you only bring it up because you are a partisan hack.
No surprise there.
 
eohrnberger said:
Little more than the often repeated same old baseless accusations and dishonest narratives.

Every one of these incidents is accompanied by premature jumping to conclusions, seeding of dishonest and distorting politically driven narratives, incitement of rioting for perceived political advantage,
Just as an example, 'Hands Up Don't Shoot' has been debunked as a complete fabrication, never happened, and yet still used by the left to incite protesters following these incidents.

The same goes for the baseless and fact less accusation that there is a 'Police genocide of blacks', when FBI crime statistics disprove that. Simply more of the left's dishonesty.

All this played to defund and disband police, the inevitable result of which puts minority communities at greater risk of criminal violence, the Ferguson effect.

Minority polling results show support for greater policing, not less, for more police funding, not less.
​

Black Americans Want Police to Retain Local Presence​

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- When asked whether they want the police to spend more time, the same amount of time or less time than they currently do in their area, most Black Americans -- 61% -- want the...​

Gallup: 81 Percent Of Black Americans Want Police, Some ...​

A new Gallup poll released Wednesday shows an overwhelming majority of black Americans, 81 percent, support either the same amount or an increased police presence in their communities.​

Many Blacks want more police presence, research shows. But ...​

Many Blacks want more police presence, research shows. But they also need better policing. American novelist F. Scott Fitzgerald remarked, "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to...​

81% of Black Americans want police to maintain or increase ...​

Around 20% of Black people polled said they would like to see an increased police presence compared to 19% of respondents who favor the police spend less time in their area. Asian Americans were...​
​
So who, exactly, is calling for defunding / disbanding the police? And at who's cost will the results of that be? Certainly not the ones who calling calling for such defunding and disbanding.

More and more it seems like it is impossible to have a conversation or discussion founded in honesty with the left on just about anything.
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Thank you for making my point.

I doubt that I could have done it better.
 
yankintx said:
Who is you guys?
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The term "you guys" refers to any group of two or more people who chanted "defund the police" at a BLM rally but actually meant, "redistribute police budgets".

This also includes the media and some politicians who tried to steer and alter BLM's "Defund the Police" messaging to make it more appealing.

However, you and others, including the media nd politicians, have now been corrected by BLM as to what they mean when they say defund the police.

Maybe you missed this thread and Rolling Stone article last summer - Nonsense : "Defund the Police"
 
Here's Rolling Stone's attempt to redefine, reshape, and smooth over the word "defund":

A Practical Guide to Defunding the Police
"Defunding the police does not mean stripping a department entirely of its budget, or abolishing it altogether. It’s just about scaling police budgets back and reallocating those resources to other agencies, says Lynda Garcia, policing campaign director at the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. “A lot of what we advocate for is investment in community services — education, medical access… You can call it ‘defunding,’ but it’s just about directing or balancing the budget in a different way.”
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However, the dishonest Rolling Stone article is not how the word defund is being used or defined by BLM or Socialists:

Relational Organizing for Abolition: A guide for talking to the people you know about police abolition

#DefundThePolice | Black Lives Matter

People need to stop lying about what the phrase "defund the police" means, because it means exactly what it says.
 
Schism said:
The term "you guys" refers to any group of two or more people who chanted "defund the police" at a BLM rally but actually meant, "redistribute police budgets".

This also includes the media and some politicians who tried to steer and alter BLM's "Defund the Police" messaging to make it more appealing.

However, you and others, including the media nd politicians, have now been corrected by BLM as to what they mean when they say defund the police.

Maybe you missed this thread and Rolling Stone article last summer - Nonsense : "Defund the Police"
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Me?

I have never even even commented on the subject.

Get your facts straight
 
yankintx said:
Me?

I have never even even commented on the subject.

Get your facts straight
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My facts are straight. I wasn't originally replying to you, you interjected yourself, and now want to puff up like a toad.
 
Schism said:
My facts are straight. I wasn't originally replying to you, you interjected yourself, and now want to puff up like a toad.
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The reply to my query specifically said you, meaning me.

Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully.

And who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?
 
yankintx said:
Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully.
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Like "defund the police", which means exactly what it says; not some toned-down, redefined CNN/NBC soft-pedal.
 
Schism said:
Like "defund the police", which means exactly what it says; not some toned-down, redefined CNN/NBC soft-pedal.
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Sure could have used more police 6 Jan, hold back those crazies.
 
People are making a BIG mistake here. They should ABSOLUTELY give the rabid mindless leftist shitheads what they are asking for and remove the policing from the rat infested rat party run shitholes in this country. Like...immediately. Yesterday.
 
VanceMack said:
People are making a BIG mistake here. They should ABSOLUTELY give the rabid mindless leftist shitheads what they are asking for and remove the policing from the rat infested rat party run shitholes in this country. Like...immediately. Yesterday.
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You want this to happen so that some troublemakers can come in and stir up the pot. Then when the media blows the results out of proportion like they always do, you'll say, "See? We need authoritarianism to smash these people." Just not in those words--you'll still use some euphemisms.
 
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