The Episcopals Under Fire Over Gays

[Navy Pride]

If any of you lefties thought this was going to go away quietly you were sadly mistaken.

The Episcopals Under Fire Over Gays -- Tuesday, Feb. 20, 2007 -- Page 1 -- TIME

If the Episcopal Church in the U.S. was expecting a moderate message on homosexual equality from its Anglican counteparts at their annual meeting in Tanzania this week — or even some kind of benign stalling action — it was sorely mistaken. The communique issued by the Communion's collected primates (regional archbishops) ended up presenting a fairly stark choice for more the liberal-minded Episcopalians: either back off on officiating at gay commitment ceremonies and ordaining gay clergy — fast — or be shunned by the Anglican Communion.

The 38 primates of the Anglican Communion, the 77-million member body that includes the Episcopal Church in the U.S., gave the Episcopalians (with 2.2 million members) less than eight months to swear off officiating at gay commitment ceremonies and set in motion a system of "alternative oversight" for Episcopal congregations so disgruntled with the positions of the American church that they have been demanding their own set of conservative bishops as the price of staying within the church. Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, Anglicanism's first primate among equals and the man responsible for trying to hold the Communion together, made it clear in a press conference that he supported the communique.

 

[Goobieman]

Thats the thing about being a member of a church.
It has established rules. If it doesnt want to change them, it doesn't have to.
If you don't like it -- leave.

 

[Kelzie]

One can only hope that in the end tolerance and love will win out. Just like Christ would have wanted.

 

[jallman]

One can only hope that in the end tolerance and love will win out. Just like Christ would have wanted.

Tolerance and love are not at stake here. What is at stake is the undermining of a doctrine and the outcome of a spiritual rebellion. A church has foundations in doctrine and if one does not like those doctrines, then it is more dignified to leave and find a place where doctrine matches yours than it is to demand a change in doctrine.

 

[Navy Pride]

I think that the churches with the liberal views on gay marriage, etc should break away and form their own church.......

 

[Ikari]

That's pretty much how these things were accomplished in the past.

 

[Kelzie]

Tolerance and love are not at stake here. What is at stake is the undermining of a doctrine and the outcome of a spiritual rebellion. A church has foundations in doctrine and if one does not like those doctrines, then it is more dignified to leave and find a place where doctrine matches yours than it is to demand a change in doctrine.

Ah right. Like that one Luther fellow. Though, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Lutherans and Protestants still part of the Christian church?

 

[danarhea]

Ah right. Like that one Luther fellow. Though, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Lutherans and Protestants still part of the Christian church?

Depends on how tolerant one is. Let me add that Christ did not come to this earth to help the sacreligious. He came to help sinners, and that is each and every one of us. Jesus did say one very important thing - That there is a place in hell reserved especially for the hypocrites.

 

[Kelzie]

Depends on how tolerant one is. Let me add that Christ did not come to this earth to help the sacreligious. He came to help sinners, and that is each and every one of us. Jesus did say one very important thing - That there is a place in hell reserved especially for the hypocrites.

Though one has to wonder if Jesus considers gay people to be sinners because of their homosexuality. Myself, I believe he is concerned with other things.

 

[26 X World Champs]

If any of you lefties thought this was going to go away quietly you were sadly mistaken.

The Episcopals Under Fire Over Gays -- Tuesday, Feb. 20, 2007 -- Page 1 -- TIME

If the Episcopal Church in the U.S. was expecting a moderate message on homosexual equality from its Anglican counteparts at their annual meeting in Tanzania this week — or even some kind of benign stalling action — it was sorely mistaken. The communique issued by the Communion's collected primates (regional archbishops) ended up presenting a fairly stark choice for more the liberal-minded Episcopalians: either back off on officiating at gay commitment ceremonies and ordaining gay clergy — fast — or be shunned by the Anglican Communion.

The 38 primates of the Anglican Communion, the 77-million member body that includes the Episcopal Church in the U.S., gave the Episcopalians (with 2.2 million members) less than eight months to swear off officiating at gay commitment ceremonies and set in motion a system of "alternative oversight" for Episcopal congregations so disgruntled with the positions of the American church that they have been demanding their own set of conservative bishops as the price of staying within the church. Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, Anglicanism's first primate among equals and the man responsible for trying to hold the Communion together, made it clear in a press conference that he supported the communique.

I've never seen any other member of this Forum so obsessed with Gays as you Navy Pride and the thing is every thread you start about Gays is to bash them.

It's like you spend your entire day on the Internet looking for news stories that attack Gays and as I read your comments you certainly seem to get a buzz out posting anti-Gay hate and propaganda.

What's with your Gay obsession?

 

[StrawHat]

C'mon now, let's not imply that Navy is himself homosexual (i'm pretty sure that's where you're aiming 26). That's just immature.

Now, I have to concur that this is not an issue of tolerance. Anyone with sound theological backing will state that Christians are supposed to:

1. Regard homosexual activity as a sin
2. Love (in the brotherly sense) others, even if they are in sin
3. Try to bring them out of sin

I don't care if you're Christian or not, that's simply a matter of Christian theology, and to deny that this is the fact is simply being dishonest to further one's argument. The Episcopalians can't honestly think that Christ would be just a-ok with gay marriage. That's utterly ridiculous. I also doubt Jesus would be ok with the "God hates fags" crowd. If God hated sinners for their sins, then He should hate all of us, yea? The Episcopalians are just straight up wrong on this one, anyone with any sort of knowledge of Christian theology must surely recognize that.

 

[26 X World Champs]

C'mon now, let's not imply that Navy is himself homosexual (i'm pretty sure that's where you're aiming 26). That's just immature.

No way, you're completely wrong. I absolutely do not think Navy is Gay! Quite the opposite I think that his posts have the classic symptoms of homophobia and are actually purposely posted to attack Gays.

I've read thousands of anti-Gay posts in this Forum and I've found Navy to be a major contributor to that negative delta which is what I object to in general, anyone who bashes Gays is a bigot in my book and doesn't deserve any respect at all anymore than a racist does or a war mongerer.

 

[rathi]

I don't see why sanctioning gay marriage is such a big deal. Churches have been back peddling to fit social conventions their entire existence. By now, most of the old testament stuff has been quietly ignored. If you eat shellfish and wear polycotton blend, why not accept gays? If you can willfully ignored one command, why not ignore another? Anybody who actually tried to follow the bible literally would be considered a fringe wacko. Thats was great about religion, you are allowed to pick and choose the pieces that you like and ignore the rest.

 

[doughgirl]

“Thats the thing about being a member of a church.
It has established rules. If it doesnt want to change them, it doesn't have to.
If you don't like it -- leave.”

You mean a church with an affiliation to a denomination? I belong to a Bible church that is not associated with any denomination.

The "established rules"……….are the Holy Scriptures, the Bible. You can’t change that because to Christians it is the word of God.

That is what liberals and the homosexual agenda would like done however. Force the church to accept homosexual activity as being blessed by God. I agree with what you said, if you do not want to follow Gods law, then leave the church, do not stay and force the church to change scripture.

“One can only hope that in the end tolerance and love will win out. Just like Christ would have wanted.”

Yes, the love that Jesus talked about, particularly the love for all sinners. But Jesus did not tolerate sin in any way, shape or form. He talked more about sin and hell more than he even talked about love. To live in active sin, separates you from God.

“I think that the churches with the liberal views on gay marriage, etc should break away and form their own church....…’

You mean leave Christianity and start another religion? Christians believe the Bible and homosexuality is a sin in the bible.

“He came to help sinners, and that is each and every one of us. Jesus did say one very important thing - That there is a place in hell reserved especially for the hypocrites.”

You are right……..except He came to SAVE US not just help us. He came to die for our sins. He came to save us from our sinful lives.

“Though one has to wonder if Jesus considers gay people to be sinners because of their homosexuality. Myself, I believe he is concerned with other things.”

Yes he considered them sinners. As I said He talked more about hell and what keeps you from going to hell more than He talked about heaven. He hung around the sinners…….because he wanted to show them that living sinful lives would not bring them clser to god, it would separate them from God.


Very good post StrawHat and I believe your points are right. We are all sinners and homosexuals are no worse than the rest of us. And Christ loves the homosexual and so should those who even think their lifestyle is wrong. This isn’t a love issue. If it was none of us would deserve love.

And the fact is, God loves all of us. He sees us all the same. But we make the decision whether to walk with HIm based on the Light He has shown us, or not.

 

[The Mark]

A person or any group of persons can call themselves anything they wish. Saying something is true does not make it true.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Though I may not agree with it, a religious denomination can set any rules or doctrines they wish, based on their interpretation of whatever scriptures they adhere to, or whatever they adhere to. Prosepctive followers then have the choice to either remain or leave, based on how that person's morals/beliefs mesh with those of the religion's. If the Episcopals don't want to allow gay marriage, setting that doctrine is what they can do. Those that disagree, may not find that being an Episcopalian suits them.

 

[doughgirl]

“A person or any group of persons can call themselves anything they wish. Saying something is true does not make it true.”

True. And no outside group or person should walk into a church and tell them what to believe. Captain Courtesy said it best.

 

[Gibberish]

Denominations are made specifically because they have differing opinions. If the homosexuals in the Episcopal Church don't like the Episcopal rules then they need to create their own denomination where homosexuals are welcome.

 

[rathi]

You mean leave Christianity and start another religion? Christians believe the Bible and homosexuality is a sin in the bible.

Hardly. You ignore so much of the old testament already, why not just include a few more passages? If you eat shellfish wear poly cotton blend and don't kill people for minor offenses, why not accepts gays? Religion has changed its values numerous times throughout history due to political or social pressure, why not continue with the trend today?

 

[Navy Pride]

I've never seen any other member of this Forum so obsessed with Gays as you Navy Pride and the thing is every thread you start about Gays is to bash them.

It's like you spend your entire day on the Internet looking for news stories that attack Gays and as I read your comments you certainly seem to get a buzz out posting anti-Gay hate and propaganda.

What's with your Gay obsession?

I am not bashing anyone.........I am just posting the story....Why do you always attack other members of the forum instead of ever addressing the subject of the thread my left wing friend?

 

[Navy Pride]

No way, you're completely wrong. I absolutely do not think Navy is Gay! Quite the opposite I think that his posts have the classic symptoms of homophobia and are actually purposely posted to attack Gays.

I've read thousands of anti-Gay posts in this Forum and I've found Navy to be a major contributor to that negative delta which is what I object to in general, anyone who bashes Gays is a bigot in my book and doesn't deserve any respect at all anymore than a racist does or a war mongerer.

What you think does not mean squat to me..............What someone who is gay like jallman does................

 

[Navy Pride]

Denominations are made specifically because they have differing opinions. If the homosexuals in the Episcopal Church don't like the Episcopal rules then they need to create their own denomination where homosexuals are welcome.

Damn. mark the time and day, this is the first time I have ever agreed with you........

 

[Navy Pride]

Hardly. You ignore so much of the old testament already, why not just include a few more passages? If you eat shellfish wear poly cotton blend and don't kill people for minor offenses, why not accepts gays? Religion has changed its values numerous times throughout history due to political or social pressure, why not continue with the trend today?

I am a Roman Catholic Christian and Catholics believe that the sex acts gays engage in is a mortal sin just like any other sin.............The Catholic Church welcomes gays and teaches to love the sinner but hate the sin......

 

[Kelzie]

I am a Roman Catholic Christian and Catholics believe that the sex acts gays engage in is a mortal sin just like any other sin.............The Catholic Church welcomes gays and teaches to love the sinner but hate the sin......

That wasn't really his point.

 

[Navy Pride]

That wasn't really his point.

Enlighten me, what was his point?