the End of women's scholastic sports?

[TurtleDude]

a provocative argument that the bathroom controversy could lead to decimation of women only sports teams

This Liberal Judge Just Put an End to Women's Sports

Sorry ladies. The Obama Administration’s liberal minions and judges just ended women’s sports. The liberal argument currently being made for restrooms[FONT=Noto Sans, sans-serif] is not based on biology, but on what a person “feels they are”. Most commentators are rightfully afraid that this opens the door for “perverted” men to pose as women and freely enter women’s locker rooms and rest rooms. It does much more. It makes men eligible to play in women’s sports leagues. The new liberal definition of a woman is anyone who feels like they are a woman, including athletics.[/FONT]

[FONT=Noto Sans, sans-serif]Now I think its a bit hyperbolic but some of the bathroom equity warriors probably don't understand that this sort of attempt to eliminate traditional borders and rules do have other consequences[/FONT]

 

[Bodi]

a provocative argument that the bathroom controversy could lead to decimation of women only sports teams

This Liberal Judge Just Put an End to Women's Sports

Sorry ladies. The Obama Administration’s liberal minions and judges just ended women’s sports. The liberal argument currently being made for restrooms[FONT=Noto Sans, sans-serif] is not based on biology, but on what a person “feels they are”. Most commentators are rightfully afraid that this opens the door for “perverted” men to pose as women and freely enter women’s locker rooms and rest rooms. It does much more. It makes men eligible to play in women’s sports leagues. The new liberal definition of a woman is anyone who feels like they are a woman, including athletics.[/FONT]

[FONT=Noto Sans, sans-serif]Now I think its a bit hyperbolic but some of the bathroom equity warriors probably don't understand that this sort of attempt to eliminate traditional borders and rules do have other consequences[/FONT]

It actually started a long time ago with Renee' Richards in pro tennis but the climate of hyper-liberalism was not right for it to ruin women's sports... now the time is right and I fear that your article might be correct.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

a provocative argument that the bathroom controversy could lead to decimation of women only sports teams

This Liberal Judge Just Put an End to Women's Sports

Sorry ladies. The Obama Administration’s liberal minions and judges just ended women’s sports. The liberal argument currently being made for restrooms[FONT=Noto Sans, sans-serif] is not based on biology, but on what a person “feels they are”. Most commentators are rightfully afraid that this opens the door for “perverted” men to pose as women and freely enter women’s locker rooms and rest rooms. It does much more. It makes men eligible to play in women’s sports leagues. The new liberal definition of a woman is anyone who feels like they are a woman, including athletics.[/FONT]

[FONT=Noto Sans, sans-serif]Now I think its a bit hyperbolic but some of the bathroom equity warriors probably don't understand that this sort of attempt to eliminate traditional borders and rules do have other consequences[/FONT]

Turtle, how should society handle the issues of transgender people?

 

[TurtleDude]

Turtle, how should society handle the issues of transgender people?

I don't have an answer for every possible issue in that discussion. I think men who have had the surgery and are now living as women should use the women's rest room, women's locker rooms. as to sports-it depends. Rene Richards-when she was Richard Raskind (my college squash coach knew her and played tennis against her when RR was Richard Raskind) was probably able to beat almost any woman in the world just as the varsity players on the Yale Tennis team when I was there could do the same. Rene Richards wasn't exactly tearing up the women's circuit after all the hormones changed her body.

so on athletics it depends. In some spots it should not matter. IN sprinting, male bodies are advantageous due to narrower pelvises. so maybe in some sports, transgendered post op individuals cannot compete.

 

[Bodi]

Turtle, how should society handle the issues of transgender people?

Biology rules... sports don't care about how you feel. Women vs. Women. Men vs. Men. End of story.

Look, not everybody is a winner. I was a great athlete but not good enough to go pro in anything. Golf, tennis, track. That is fine. I won State and it ended there. Some others don't even get that. Some are born slow, with two left feet or as midgets. That is life. If a man feels he is a woman he has no right to compete against actual women just as I do not have that right. He can compete against men... nobody has a problem with women moving up to men's sports, not many anyway.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Biology rules... sports don't care about how you feel. Women vs. Women. Men vs. Men. End of story.

Look, not everybody is a winner. I was a great athlete but not good enough to go pro in anything. Golf, tennis, track. That is fine. I won State and it ended there. Some others don't even get that. Some are born slow, with two left feet or as midgets. That is life. If a man feels he is a woman he has no right to compete against actual women just as I do not have that right. He can compete against men... nobody has a problem with women moving up to men's sports, not many anyway.

But if a man or woman undergoes the process of changing their gender, does that alter anything?

 

[Henrin]

It's already happening. :shrug:

 

[Bodi]

But if a man or woman undergoes the process of changing their gender, does that alter anything?

It alters things but not enough for them to participate with women...

 

[Unitedwestand13]

It alters things but not enough for them to participate with women...

I am not talking about participation in sports, I was talking about the legal ramifications.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Just because someone can use a woman's bathroom does not mean they have to be allowed to play in women's sports.

 

[TurtleDude]

But if a man or woman undergoes the process of changing their gender, does that alter anything?

yeah how they look in a bikini

 

[reinoe]

a provocative argument that the bathroom controversy could lead to decimation of women only sports teams

This Liberal Judge Just Put an End to Women's Sports

Sorry ladies. The Obama Administration’s liberal minions and judges just ended women’s sports. The liberal argument currently being made for restrooms is not based on biology, but on what a person “feels they are”. Most commentators are rightfully afraid that this opens the door for “perverted” men to pose as women and freely enter women’s locker rooms and rest rooms. It does much more. It makes men eligible to play in women’s sports leagues. The new liberal definition of a woman is anyone who feels like they are a woman, including athletics.

Now I think its a bit hyperbolic but some of the bathroom equity warriors probably don't understand that this sort of attempt to eliminate traditional borders and rules do have other consequences

Who knew Rodney Dangerfield was starring in a documentery when they made "Ladybugs".

 

[TobyOne]

Lol. :lamo

a provocative argument that the bathroom controversy could lead to decimation of women only sports teams

This Liberal Judge Just Put an End to Women's Sports

Sorry ladies. The Obama Administration’s liberal minions and judges just ended women’s sports. The liberal argument currently being made for restrooms[FONT=Noto Sans, sans-serif] is not based on biology, but on what a person “feels they are”. Most commentators are rightfully afraid that this opens the door for “perverted” men to pose as women and freely enter women’s locker rooms and rest rooms. It does much more. It makes men eligible to play in women’s sports leagues. The new liberal definition of a woman is anyone who feels like they are a woman, including athletics.[/FONT]

[FONT=Noto Sans, sans-serif]Now I think its a bit hyperbolic but some of the bathroom equity warriors probably don't understand that this sort of attempt to eliminate traditional borders and rules do have other consequences[/FONT]

 

[Bodi]

I am not talking about participation in sports, I was talking about the legal ramifications.

That is a large issue... I am fine with a man feeling like a woman and even being treated as one in most cases... just not sports off the top of my head.

 

[legalimmigrant]

Turtle, how should society handle the issues of transgender people?

The same as it handles other mental defects. If you are blind you can't drive. If you are on psych drugs you can't get a concealed carry permit.

If you are transgender you cannot compete in sports other than those specifically organized for TG's. Just like special Olympics for the disabled.

 

[chromium]

You act like the driving force would be attitudes towards gender identity, rather than how prevalent cheating of all kinds is in for-profit sports. The iranians used crossdressers and athletes who had undergone government coerced sex reassignment on their female teams long ago. The entire tour de france and MLB were on PEDs, and probably almost every college and pro athlete these days

The issue here is cheaters *taking advantage* of transgender progress. After all, real MtF are a very small minority and the # who are athletically fit enough to win a competition of top female athletes is even smaller. Also, i don't see anyone on the right whining about how unfair it is for FtM to compete in male competition

 

[Fishking]

Also, i don't see anyone on the right whining about how unfair it is for FtM to compete in male competition

Because it isn't competition.

 

[TurtleDude]

You act like the driving force would be attitudes towards gender identity, rather than how prevalent cheating of all kinds is in for-profit sports. The iranians used crossdressers and athletes who had undergone government coerced sex reassignment on their female teams long ago. The entire tour de france and MLB were on PEDs, and probably almost every college and pro athlete these days

The issue here is cheaters *taking advantage* of transgender progress. After all, real MtF are a very small minority and the # who are athletically fit enough to win a competition of top female athletes is even smaller. Also, i don't see anyone on the right whining about how unfair it is for FtM to compete in male competition

true, a F to M athlete is not going to have any advantage I can think of. A M to F does and that is detrimental to women's sports. But if we push this bathroom nonsense far enough, how can anyone argue for women only events? I remember when universities were cutting men's varsity sports (wrestling and volleyball and gymnastics were all eliminated when i was at Yale because of Title IX and the fact that football created a massive imbalance even though it did something NONE of the women's sports did (and this is true in most D-1 colleges-PAY FOR ITSELF) to even things up and one scholar suggested merely making every team COED and then there would be no issue with Title IX. Of course I couldn't think of a single varsity sport at my college where a woman could have started other than the quasi-varsity shotgun team (it was quasi varsity because if you did well enough you were awarded a major varsity letter-I was the only shooter at the time I graduated to have done that and we had a lady start on the team my senior year and she got a varsity letter because we won the Eastern Collegiate conference team titles in Skeet and ISU skeet and HOA). but a completely COED sports program at most D-1 Colleges would mean only Rifle as a NCAA sport where a woman could make the team.

Not tennis
not soccer
not track
not swimming
Not basketball
not volleyball
not cross country
not baseball
Not water polo
and could gymnastics (different apparatus for men vs women save floor exercise-the vault is set differently for the two sexes) still survive?
I believe a female athlete has lettered on men's golf teams-a multi city champion I grew up with played on Xavier University's varsity team when there was no women's team

 

[Fiddytree]

The same as it handles other mental defects. If you are blind you can't drive. If you are on psych drugs you can't get a concealed carry permit.

If you are transgender you cannot compete in sports other than those specifically organized for TG's. Just like special Olympics for the disabled.

Disabled people are able to (and do) compete in the "normative" sports leagues and divisions.

 

[chromium]

true, a F to M athlete is not going to have any advantage I can think of. A M to F does and that is detrimental to women's sports. But if we push this bathroom nonsense far enough, how can anyone argue for women only events? I remember when universities were cutting men's varsity sports (wrestling and volleyball and gymnastics were all eliminated when i was at Yale because of Title IX and the fact that football created a massive imbalance even though it did something NONE of the women's sports did (and this is true in most D-1 colleges-PAY FOR ITSELF) to even things up and one scholar suggested merely making every team COED and then there would be no issue with Title IX. Of course I couldn't think of a single varsity sport at my college where a woman could have started other than the quasi-varsity shotgun team (it was quasi varsity because if you did well enough you were awarded a major varsity letter-I was the only shooter at the time I graduated to have done that and we had a lady start on the team my senior year and she got a varsity letter because we won the Eastern Collegiate conference team titles in Skeet and ISU skeet and HOA). but a completely COED sports program at most D-1 Colleges would mean only Rifle as a NCAA sport where a woman could make the team.

Not tennis
not soccer
not track
not swimming
Not basketball
not volleyball
not cross country
not baseball
Not water polo
and could gymnastics (different apparatus for men vs women save floor exercise-the vault is set differently for the two sexes) still survive?
I believe a female athlete has lettered on men's golf teams-a multi city champion I grew up with played on Xavier University's varsity team when there was no women's team

well, i don't want to get into title 9 and private colleges, because their dependence on federal funds (although yale could probably reject those funds) is what forces their compliance. However, make no mistake, even without title 9 most colleges would abide by the spirit of it and support female sports that are non profitable

For public colleges and K-12, yes, they should absolutely be forced to provide equal opportunities for females, regardless of balance budgeting. The whole point of public education and ECs is 'for the public good.' That includes females

So even if suddenly the female teams were comprised of nothing but MtF - which is freaking absurd given how rare athletic MtF are, probably not enough to even field a volleyball team at yale - a compelling argument would be put forth that cisgender females are being deprived of those opportunities. I'm guessing they would prevail and you'd see spots set aside for them

COED obviously would be rejected for the same reasons. There are currently some females on male teams at certain positions, like a female kicker in football, but very few

But i ask again, where is your concern for the opportunities in sports for FtM?

 

[TurtleDude]

well, i don't want to get into title 9 and private colleges, because their dependence on federal funds (although yale could probably reject those funds) is what forces their compliance. However, make no mistake, even without title 9 most colleges would abide by the spirit of it and support female sports that are non profitable

For public colleges and K-12, yes, they should absolutely be forced to provide equal opportunities for females, regardless of balance budgeting. The whole point of public education and ECs is 'for the public good.' That includes females

So even if suddenly the female teams were comprised of nothing but MtF - which is freaking absurd given how rare athletic MtF are, probably not enough to even field a volleyball team at yale - a compelling argument would be put forth that cisgender females are being deprived of those opportunities. I'm guessing they would prevail and you'd see spots set aside for them

COED obviously would be rejected for the same reasons. There are currently some females on male teams at certain positions, like a female kicker in football, but very few

But i ask again, where is your concern for the opportunities in sports for FtM?

if a FtM athlete can make the men's team-more power to him. HE cannot play on the women's team due to the hormones are akin to doping

 

[Mason66]

But if a man or woman undergoes the process of changing their gender, does that alter anything?

If a man to woman post-op stops taking the female hormones to compete, isn't there an unfair advantage to be had?