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The End of 'Wokeism' (2 Viewers)

I've been thinking a lot about the current state of American politics and wanted to share some thoughts about recent history, current state, and future state of where things might go.

The Left


I was thinking about the Occupy movement and how it ostensibly represented a form of leftist populism free from the baggage of militant racial politics that alienates many Republican and Independent whites. There was a distinct moment in 2011 when the left had a chance to articulate a true message of class struggle—one that could have appealed to the middle class while still respecting America’s founding myths of ownership, entrepreneurship, and opportunity.

But Occupy didn’t last long, and its economic populism died with it. Soon after, Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown became national news, and the left’s leadership pivoted toward a racially charged grievance-based platform with no clear content or coherent end goal. This shift in focus alienated a significant portion of the electorate, who then proceeded to reject establishment neoconservatives in favor of Trump—a man who promised salvation from the emerging “woke” behemoth. By 2016, the left’s platform had devolved into an unpopular mix of identity politics, incoherent neoliberal economic policy, and Clintonite hawkish foreign policy, all bound up in a candidate who might have been one of the worst choices imaginable.

The past twelve years have been nothing short of disastrous for the political left. A lack of creativity, no clear leadership, and poor rhetorical choices have allowed the right to claim vast political and cultural territory. Among Democratic leadership, there remains a deep hesitation to commit fully to any particular direction. Should they stick with neoliberalism? Embrace progressive “woke” politics? Remain indecisive and attempt to straddle both worlds? In my view, the right has managed to win rhetorical and cultural victories primarily because of the left’s indecision and inability to synthesize a progressive social agenda with an economic model that divorces itself from corporatist neoliberalism.

The conflict in Gaza has only exacerbated this divide. The young, progressive faction of the party demands an abandonment of Israel and openly condemns Netanyahu as a war criminal, while the old-guard, donor-class Democrats remain steadfastly pro-Zionist. This division, combined with the fixation on Trump, has further paralyzed the Democratic Party. Further, the left has internalized “not-Trump” to such a degree that their entire platform now reads as only opposition to Trump—a reactionary stance rather than a positive alternative vision for the country. Meanwhile, the DEI and racial grievance politics that dominated left-wing discourse for years have lost favor in national elections. Neoliberals have failed to galvanize their base on these issues while simultaneously energizing the right, where anti-DEI has become a core pillar of the MAGA cultural agenda. It appears that “wokeism” is in full retreat, and many intelligent leftists I know have quietly abandoned the movement, searching for an alternative to MAGA.

So, what is the path forward for a defeated left? There may be a flicker of opportunity, and oddly enough, it begins with our favorite cowardly Italian plumber: Luigi.

The killing of healthcare CEO Brian Thompson by our favorite plumber in green was a revelation to me. I didn’t expect the massive outpouring of anti-capitalist, anti-corporate sentiment that animated the masses in response to an otherwise senseless act. It reminded me of the Occupy movement and the economic resentment that fueled it. Clearly, there is a deep-seated frustration with healthcare companies and corporate greed just waiting to boil over. Could this same resentment be harnessed into a broader national movement? Could anti-corporate sentiment serve as a compelling alternative to MAGA? I believe the answer is yes—now more than ever. A window of opportunity opened with Trump’s alignment with technocrats like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, which has tainted MAGA with an inescapable oligarchic stain, potentially creating an opening for a revitalized economic left—if they have the wit and political will to capitalize on it

The Right


Conversely, the right faces much less of an identity crisis, but ironically, this stability may be their downfall. To their credit, they have successfully shed the deeply unpopular neoconservative wing of the party and coalesced around Trump’s brand of neutral populism. In the first half of his first term, there was a legitimate argument that Trump positioned himself as an anti-establishment, right-wing Ross Perot. He proposed an alternative to free trade, an end to foreign wars, and immigration policies ostensibly designed to mend stagnant wages for the working class. His campaign projected a vision of American vitality, sorely lacking after the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq had drained the country of its patriotic energy.

By these measures, however, Trump’s first term was a failure. Immigration worsened, he failed to broker a diplomatic solution to soon-to-boil over conflicts in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, and his nationalist message remained tied entirely to his cult of personality rather than becoming an institutionalized movement. His disastrous first term culminated in the chaotic 2020 election and his subsequent exile from office. Yet, due to a combination of political missteps by the left and a stunning level of liberal incompetence, Trump managed to win another election. But this time, things would be different.

This time, victory required a complete sellout to an ascendant class of techno-libertarian billionaires and ideologues like Thiel, Musk, and David Sacks. However, what these figures offer is merely a rebranded form of neoconservatism—a freshly groomed pig with bright red lipstick. This new “dark enlightenment” faction of neo-reactionary libertarians has effectively hijacked Trump’s original message of middle-class populism, replacing it with a corporate-friendly, pro-immigration, neo-reactionary grift. Their motivations are clear: Musk wants H1B visas for Tesla, and Thiel wants military contracts for Palantir.

This grand scheme culminates in the homunculus that is JD Vance—not even his real name—a political nobody groomed by Thiel and mentored by neoconservative stalwarts like David Frum, who MAGA would despise. While it seems like MAGA can’t stop winning, they’ve unwittingly let a monster into their house. Their all-in investment in Trump’s cult of personality has blinded them to the subversion of his 2016 platform, which has long since been co-opted by radical Zionists and techno-oligarchs. Not only are these factions fundamentally at odds with the interests of the American people, but they also open up a massive weak point that the left could exploit in future elections—if they are competent enough to do so.

Zionist wars and corporate greed have become increasingly unpopular among the electorate. If the right fails to recognize this and reorient itself away from corporatism and techno-libertarian oligarchy—returning instead to the 2015 version of Trumpian populism that won over so many disaffected voters—they could face severe problems in the near future.
 
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It was mostly focused on racial discrimination which was in big issue at that time

Indeed

I remember

I think the critical blow was delivered to it when the marxists started getting involved. They spoil everything they want their stupid ideas to be so revolutionary they will attach it and take over anything.
You're dreaming. Marxians were always involved in the movement for civil rights, in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, too. The notion that people without any Marxian influence stood for women's rights and gay rights is so naive I'm falling over LMAO.
And it's Roots which I would say goes back before the 2010s it wasn't a bad thing.
Have no idea what you mean here.
I think there's this component of it that gets overlooked. When a movement starts it's typically for a very practical very down to earth thing. Like the gay movement it started out hey we're just people and we just want to be treated like ordinary people. And when it achieved something it moved on to the next something and continued until it was fulfilled. The problem is the movement didn't just end when it fulfilled its purpose it went and search for a new purpose.

That's when the crazies take over that's when it pushes too far that's when people say you know I'm cool with gay people getting married but like transitioning 12-year-olds is a little too much.
You're missing something here. LGB and TQ+ are completely different, because everyone acknowledges that LG and B people exist as a matter of fact, though it took some effort to make the far right acknowledge that by proving that their stupid "conversion therapy" didn't work.

But T people are very different because gender identity is a different concept. The distinction between very masculine girls and girls who have a male gender identity is a problematic one, because gender identity is not just psychological - it's cultural. I can't really say that about LGB, can you?

In addition, transitioning is a medical issue. Nothing about LGB is medical - it's just the way it is. Letting people be what they are is very different from giving people hormones and puberty blockers and surgery to be what they think they are.

In addition, LGB people are a significant percentage of the population even if a minority. One can't make such a claim about TQ+ people unless one entertains phony claims because the cause became popular with some people who aren't genuinely TQ+ people at all.
 
I never said to arm teachers in my example. I said that if certain teachers choose to go that route they could. I never said that all teachers SHOULD be armed. I said that if a teacher WANTS to be armed. Say what you want about physical weapons being the lowest form of weaponry, but in a life or death situation, a bullet to the head is going to be tough for a spiritual or intellectual weapon to overcome.
Nuff said. If a teacher wants to be armed and does it intelligently, I agree. But I still think that if guards are needed, the school should supply specialists in that, because I don't think it's a good idea to split one's training or effort between physical and intellectual stuff.
 
"The term "woke" has roots in African American Vernacular English and was used to refer to awareness of social and political issues affecting African Americans since the 1930s or earlier. It gained broader usage in the 2010s, becoming associated with a wider awareness of social inequalities including racial injustice, sexism, and denial of LGBTQ rights. The word was notably used by the blues singer Lead Belly in a 1938 song about the Scottsboro Boys, where he sang "best stay woke" as a warning about the dangers of a racially prejudiced justice system. Before Lead Belly, the term was also used by supporters of Abraham Lincoln in the 1860 presidential election as part of the Wide Awakes movement, which campaigned for workers' rights and the abolition of slavery."

...
I don't know about anyone else here, but I never heard the term "woke" in the US in the 20th century at all. People used language such as, "awakened to political consciousness," etc. I was not living in Idaho - I was in Chicago, and after a few years in Tokyo, I was in Honolulu and then in Ithaca, NY, home of Cornell University, well known for leaning quite left. I'm not going to suggest that it was never used in blues, though I was quite unaware of it, but I AM going to suggest that it's basically a term that influenced people significantly via hip-hop. a music I have never been able to tolerate, sorry.
This is an abomination of ****ing statement. I would argue on the verge of being downright evil. Jesus Christ this is to fascist right of like 80% of transphobes.
That's interesting, since I have been considerably left of center and highly supportive of the movements from the civil rights movement, ethnic rights movements, feminist movement, abortion and reproductive rights movements, gay rights movement, and many aspects of the trans movement across 6 decades. If I'm fascist and to the right of 80% of transphobes even though I'm not a transphobe, I'd be quite surprised.
Slave owners were given reparations. Japanese were given reparations. But that has little to do with Woke, but rather compensation for the exploitation done by government.
I don't think any slave owners ever had the right to reparations - they should have paid reparations.

The Japanese who were given reparations were people who had their land and possessions stolen. They were not great grandchildren of people who had their land and possessions stolen.

I believe in individual financial reparations as compensation for exploitation of the individuals, and possibly their kids. But beyond that, no. Many millions of individuals have been exploited, injured, and harmed in our current society, and every one is owed reparations, yes. FYI, I'm one of them and have never sought individual financial reparation. But I do believe in reparation of certain other kinds for groups that have been harmed. That includes African Americans, who FYI were discriminated against even as free people. It includes all women, who were discriminated against even in positions of economic privilege. It includes Hispanics, Asian Americans, LGB people, and yes, TQ+ people, too.
You can criticize whatever the **** you want. But you would not have been an ally of MLK Jr. at the time of his death, based on your extreme right-wing rhetoric.
Sorry you think the rhetoric of a left-wing person from the age of 16 to the current age of 75 is right wing, but hey, in this era, Trump has actually accused Zelensky of starting war with Putin, so you can now officially say just about any crap you want.
 
I don't know about anyone else here, but I never heard the term "woke" in the US in the 20th century at all.

The world doesn't revolve around you and your experiences.

People used language such as, "awakened to political consciousness," etc. I was not living in Idaho - I was in Chicago, and after a few years in Tokyo, I was in Honolulu and then in Ithaca, NY, home of Cornell University, well known for leaning quite left. I'm not going to suggest that it was never used in blues, though I was quite unaware of it, but I AM going to suggest that it's basically a term that influenced people significantly via hip-hop. a music I have never been able to tolerate, sorry.

See above.

That's interesting, since I have been considerably left of center and highly supportive of the movements from the civil rights movement, ethnic rights movements, feminist movement, abortion and reproductive rights movements, gay rights movement, and many aspects of the trans movement across 6 decades. If I'm fascist and to the right of 80% of transphobes even though I'm not a transphobe, I'd be quite surprised.

J.K. Rolling considers herself left-leaning.

I don't think any slave owners ever had the right to reparations - they should have paid reparations.

But they were. The government engages in lots of stuff you don't agree with.

The Japanese who were given reparations were people who had their land and possessions stolen. They were not great grandchildren of people who had their land and possessions stolen.

I believe in individual financial reparations as compensation for exploitation of the individuals, and possibly their kids. But beyond that, no. Many millions of individuals have been exploited, injured, and harmed in our current society, and every one is owed reparations, yes. FYI, I'm one of them and have never sought individual financial reparation. But I do believe in reparation of certain other kinds for groups that have been harmed. That includes African Americans, who FYI were discriminated against even as free people. It includes all women, who were discriminated against even in positions of economic privilege. It includes Hispanics, Asian Americans, LGB people, and yes, TQ+ people, too.

Sorry you think the rhetoric of a left-wing person from the age of 16 to the current age of 75 is right wing, but hey, in this era, Trump has actually accused Zelensky of starting war with Putin, so you can now officially say just about any crap you want.

The case for black reparations is far more complex than just institutional slavery.
 
The world doesn't revolve around you and your experiences.
It doesn't revolve around yours, either.
See above.



J.K. Rolling considers herself left-leaning.



But they were. The government engages in lots of stuff you don't agree with.
I already know that, of course.
The case for black reparations is far more complex than just institutional slavery.

That's what I said. However, I don't think anyone owes Kanye West reparations for anything, and if you do, you're the right wing guy.
 
It doesn't revolve around yours, either.

I already know that, of course.


That's what I said. However, I don't think anyone owes Kanye West reparations for anything, and if you do, you're the right wing guy.

I would vote for reparations in the form of infrastructure investment in underserved communities (at a minimum). And if you're afraid of Kanye or Clarence Thomas getting a benefit, here's what you do to reclaim it: TAX THEM.

The notion that someone in poverty can't get a benefit because it might benefit someone of affluence is LAZY right-wing framing. And easily addressed through taxation.
 
I would vote for reparations in the form of infrastructure investment in underserved communities (at a minimum). And if you're afraid of Kanye or Clarence Thomas getting a benefit, here's what you do to reclaim it: TAX THEM.

The notion that someone in poverty can't get a benefit because it might benefit someone of affluence is LAZY right-wing framing. And easily addressed through taxation.
Ah, you're not talking about reparations for people based on color or ethnicity, but poverty. There we agree, because I do believe in infrastructure investment in underserved communities, at a minimum.

I'm not afraid of West or Thomas getting a benefit - they already get many benefits and shouldn't be getting more. But how can Thomas be taxed on any inappropriate benefit when he hasn't even reported many lucrative gifts from superrich people who had no business plying him with them?
 
Woke is just a form of formulaic group think that allows a bunch of utterly mediocre people to think of themselves as superior to everybody else.

If it does go away, it will just be replaced by some other way of appearing elite.
 
How can you end being aware???

“Wokism” stopped being about being aware. When it was about awareness it was fine. Even commendable. It became about control.

Control of speech. Control of action. Even control of thought.

That is neither desirable or commendable.
 
Democrats, as an organization, have been off message since the 70’s. Even when they are selling something good they are rotten sales folk.

Republicans have been almost entirely on message since Nixon. Even when they are selling something horrible they are very good at selling it.

They are far better sales folk than Democrats. (Possible exception being James Carville, and even he’s slipped as he’s aged)
 
“Wokism” stopped being about being aware. When it was about awareness it was fine. Even commendable. It became about control.

Control of speech. Control of action. Even control of thought.

That is neither desirable or commendable.
there IS a limit to free speech when it harms others----you know that, right???
 
there IS a limit to free speech when it harms others----you know that, right???

Wouldn’t declare different.

When the ACLU and college campuses, liberal bastions that defined that line and defended it against passing into repression of thought stopped knowing where that line was and acting in it’s defense but against it… 🤷‍♂️

Wokism became an antithesis of freedom and free speech. It became the harm you’re talking about.
 
Wouldn’t declare different.

When the ACLU and college campuses, liberal bastions that defined that line and defended it against passing into repression of thought stopped knowing where that line was and acting in it’s defense but against it… 🤷‍♂️

Wokism became an antithesis of freedom and free speech. It became the harm you’re talking about.
your opinion only---------I agree with most of what was being done. The only "thought" repressed was harmful. Stopping a bully does not inhibit his rights, etc, etc
 
your opinion only---------I agree with most of what was being done. The only "thought" repressed was harmful. Stopping a bully does not inhibit his rights, etc, etc

It is not “bullying” to have and express an opinion. Attempting to silence opinion is a form of bullying though.
 
but some opinion in public is harmful----that is the law

Actually, no it isn’t.

Physically capable of causing danger or harm, the proverbial shouting fire in a crowded theater, but there is no law against hurtful speech. It’s bad manners, it might even be anti-social, but it’s not illegal.

Someone could walk up to me and say, “MD, you’re old, fat, ugly and you dress funny.”, and I’d not be able to have them arrested or cited for it.
 
Actually, no it isn’t.

Physically capable of causing danger or harm, the proverbial shouting fire in a crowded theater, but there is no law against hurtful speech. It’s bad manners, it might even be anti-social, but it’s not illegal.
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Someone could walk up to me and say, “MD, you’re old, fat, ugly and you dress funny.”, and I’d not be able to have them arrested or cited for it.
Depends where, how, who, when....................many exceptions......
 
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Depends where, how, who, when....................many exceptions......

Speech that is imminent unlawful action is not just hurtful, it’s illegal. So that doesn’t pertain to my argument. Inciting violence is hard to prove, but also illegal. Sexual violence is also illegal. So is sexual speech that violates the public peace. Five is a tort, and if what is spoken is true the truth of it is a 100% affirmative defense if its utterance. Harassment is also hard to prove, requires persistence in most cases, and reaches an illegal level. Speech that is made to block others speech violates the peace, and is how it’s usually charged.

None of the above makes your argument that “hurtful” soeach is illegal simply for being hurtful. Other things must be present to raise that speech to a level of illegality or a civil tort. Its simply being hurtful, on its own, is a potentially anti-social act, even unethical, but not OF ITSELF criminally or civilly actionable, civilly or criminally.

That underlined is the point I’m making to you.
 
Speech that is imminent unlawful action is not just hurtful, it’s illegal. So that doesn’t pertain to my argument. Inciting violence is hard to prove, but also illegal. Sexual violence is also illegal. So is sexual speech that violates the public peace. Five is a tort, and if what is spoken is true the truth of it is a 100% affirmative defense if its utterance. Harassment is also hard to prove, requires persistence in most cases, and reaches an illegal level. Speech that is made to block others speech violates the peace, and is how it’s usually charged.

None of the above makes your argument that “hurtful” soeach is illegal simply for being hurtful.
depends how hurtful, when, where, etc........as you say = "unclear" at times and hard to prove
Other things must be present to raise that speech to a level of illegality or a civil tort. Its simply being hurtful, on its own, is a potentially anti-social act, even unethical, but not OF ITSELF criminally or civilly actionable, civilly or criminally.

That underlined is the point I’m making to you.
Well, sure, but you would be surprised what you can sue for..................
 
depends how hurtful, when, where, etc........as you say = "unclear" at times and hard to prove

You’re ignoring the point I’ve asked you to address. I’ve never stated these things can’t be hurtful. I’ve stated they cross lines that are defined by law and aren’t simply hurtful any more but become something more. A something that is not just hurtful anymore and is addressable by due process

I’ve asked you to see that this isn’t simply hurtful acts any longer once these lubes have been crossed and thus do not meet your definition of simply hurtful acts that, of and on their own, would not be legally addressable.

Well, sure, but you would be surprised what you can sue for..................

No, actually, it wouldn’t. I’ve investigated civil cases for civil plaintiffs’ and defendants’ legal counsel.
 
You’re ignoring the point I’ve asked you to address. I’ve never stated these things can’t be hurtful. I’ve stated they cross lines that are defined by law and aren’t simply hurtful any more but become something more. A something that is not just hurtful anymore and is addressable by due process

I’ve asked you to see that this isn’t simply hurtful acts any longer once these lubes have been crossed and thus do not meet your definition of simply hurtful acts that, of and on their own, would not be legally addressable.
?? still not sure, then, what your point is. Are you saying that things are getting worse? Out of hand?
No, actually, it wouldn’t. I’ve investigated civil cases for civil plaintiffs’ and defendants’ legal counsel.
that's good.
 
?? still not sure, then, what your point is. Are you saying that things are getting worse? Out of hand?

No, I’m saying you’ve stated hurtful things are wrong to the level they are actionable. If I am wrong in that please tell me so.

I’m saying that at the point they are merely hurtful they are not actionable by methods of law or jurisprudence. It is at some point, and what those points are differ by precisely what actions we are talking about, and they aren’t merely hurtful anymore. They are harassment. They are libel/slander. They are some minor ievel of actual assault, etc. Things that have gone beyond merely hurtful.

We don’t prosecute things like micro-aggressions (sorry, couldn’t resist). 😁

that's good.

Not my favorite thing. Though it paid well.
 

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