The end of the American Century sidebar.

[Torus34]

What has been [rightly[ described by some as the American Century -- that period of world history beginning in 1941 and continuing through the present day -- is slowly coming to an end. America's ability to impress its goals and desires upon a number of other nations is waning. Only one of the three pillars supporting the US hegemony, military superiority, remains intact. The other two, economic and 'soft' power [Ed.: 'Soft power' is something of a catch-all,] can be shown to be in recession.

Interestingly, the presidency of President of the United States of America Donald Trump can be shown to have accelerated the process of bringing the American Century to a close. One specific example is the push exerted by the Trump administration on NATO members to 'pay their own way'. There has been, for many decades, an unwritten agreement between the United States and the other members of the NATO alliance. It goes like this: 'America will underwrite your NATO dues and you will follow America's lead.' Nations that pay their own way need give America no special heed. There is, as yet, nothing to indicate that President Trump understood this relationship nor the full implications of his position regarding it.

If one thinks about it a bit, other instances in which American dollars have purchased American power will come to mind.

Empires come and, history has shown, empires go. America's empire, when all is said and done, hopefully will be shown to have been one of the more benign.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.

 

[Allan]

I wouldn't write America off quite yet. She is the default leader in the world and a temporary Trump initiated timeout isn't going to change that. The rest of the world still needs a strong bigger brother to hedge against Russia's influence. If Putin were a little less, shall we say mischievous, maybe the world would move on from America. But there are threats out there and we've got to stick together.

 

[Mycroft]

What has been [rightly[ described by some as the American Century -- that period of world history beginning in 1941 and continuing through the present day -- is slowly coming to an end. America's ability to impress its goals and desires upon a number of other nations is waning. Only one of the three pillars supporting the US hegemony, military superiority, remains intact. The other two, economic and 'soft' power [Ed.: 'Soft power' is something of a catch-all,] can be shown to be in recession.

Interestingly, the presidency of President of the United States of America Donald Trump can be shown to have accelerated the process of bringing the American Century to a close. One specific example is the push exerted by the Trump administration on NATO members to 'pay their own way'. There has been, for many decades, an unwritten agreement between the United States and the other members of the NATO alliance. It goes like this: 'America will underwrite your NATO dues and you will follow America's lead.' Nations that pay their own way need give America no special heed. There is, as yet, nothing to indicate that President Trump understood this relationship nor the full implications of his position regarding it.

If one thinks about it a bit, other instances in which American dollars have purchased American power will come to mind.

Empires come and, history has shown, empires go. America's empire, when all is said and done, hopefully will be shown to have been one of the more benign.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.

Don't worry. It's not over yet. Biden will do his best to dangle American money throughout the world to benefit those who have given him...and the entire Elite structure in our country...millions.

But I have to ask: Why is it a bad thing for NATO to pay their way and, subsequently, make their own decisions? Why should the US give them money and, in return, give them their marching orders?

 

[Torus34]

I wouldn't write America off quite yet. She is the default leader in the world and a temporary Trump initiated timeout isn't going to change that. The rest of the world still needs a strong bigger brother to hedge against Russia's influence. If Putin were a little less, shall we say mischievous, maybe the world would move on from America. But there are threats out there and we've got to stick together.

Hi, Allan!

Thank you for responding to my post.

As with anything else that's massive, changes in direction do not occur quickly nor are they readily reversed. Whether it's a laden ocean freighter, a ship of state or a hegemony/empire of major size, the changes in direction take time. America's predominance in many areas is fading, but the end of the American Century will not obtain in the next few years. Neither will the direction it's now taking change significantly. That's because many other factors are at work outside the American borders. The rise of China and India as economic players of significance on the world stage are but two. There are many more. The US administration may be able to alter the angle of descent a bit, but it is simply one of a number of forces in play.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

[joko104]

What has been [rightly[ described by some as the American Century -- that period of world history beginning in 1941 and continuing through the present day -- is slowly coming to an end. America's ability to impress its goals and desires upon a number of other nations is waning. Only one of the three pillars supporting the US hegemony, military superiority, remains intact. The other two, economic and 'soft' power [Ed.: 'Soft power' is something of a catch-all,] can be shown to be in recession.

Interestingly, the presidency of President of the United States of America Donald Trump can be shown to have accelerated the process of bringing the American Century to a close. One specific example is the push exerted by the Trump administration on NATO members to 'pay their own way'. There has been, for many decades, an unwritten agreement between the United States and the other members of the NATO alliance. It goes like this: 'America will underwrite your NATO dues and you will follow America's lead.' Nations that pay their own way need give America no special heed. There is, as yet, nothing to indicate that President Trump understood this relationship nor the full implications of his position regarding it.

If one thinks about it a bit, other instances in which American dollars have purchased American power will come to mind.

Empires come and, history has shown, empires go. America's empire, when all is said and done, hopefully will be shown to have been one of the more benign.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.

The irony of your message runs deep. You're claiming the USA's foreign policy should have remained slitting our own economic throat in relation to foreign economic competition (NATO nations) and constant messages demanding shattering the USA's economy by perpetual covid-19 shut down and permanently eliminating half a million domestic American businesses on behalf of the American-Chinese plutocratic partnership - while seemingly lamenting the lose of the power of the American dollar.

Trying to perpetually buy an alliance with Europe by protecting Europe at our expense is an absurd concept and one of many reasons the USA has gone broke and that economic collapse is the USA's undoing. The USA did not become the dominate power on earth by bribery as you claim.

 

[notquiteright]

Don't worry. It's not over yet. Biden will do his best to dangle American money throughout the world to benefit those who have given him...and the entire Elite structure in our country...millions. But I have to ask: Why is it a bad thing for NATO to pay their way and, subsequently, make their own decisions? Why should the US give them money and, in return, give them their marching orders?

As opposed to the GOP giving tax cut after tax cut to the entire Elite structure????

Our Military still stands strong- taking about half of all revenue still being collected by the gubmint. What Nato does or doesn't pay is a nit in the defense budget.

But our soft power is fading and a far greater threat. Post WWII we had the only remaining industrial base not devastated by war- in fact quite the opposite- our industry was by multiples the largest in the world due to wartime production. For a time we owned world production of durable goods. But our captains of industry failed to heed history. ( the myth of American exceptionalism bites us in the butt) As we overtook Europe in durable goods in the beginning of the 20th century it was because we built our factories using the latest in modern advances while Europe continued with rapidly failing practices and obsolescent machinery.

As the world recovered from WWII and technology advanced our Captains ignored consumer desires and the influx of Asian cars, appliances, and electronic equipment.

But capitalism did repeat what the savvy Europeans did- invest in the growth nations at the determent of domestic workers. Of course the blue collar class didn't like this move but the elite and stock holders did....

Capitalism- the 'American dream' for the rich is turning into a nightmare for the blue collar worker-

And Biden has not the cause of that.... ✌

 

[Mycroft]

Our Military still stands strong- taking about half of all revenue still being collected by the gubmint. What Nato does or doesn't pay is a nit in the defense budget.
~snipped the totally irrelevant stuff~

Yes. We have an obligation to pay to keep our military strong...after all, it's our own self-defense at stake.

But we DON'T have an obligation to pay to keep other country's military strong for the purpose of being able to tell them what to do.

 

[Luther]

What has been [rightly[ described by some as the American Century -- that period of world history beginning in 1941 and continuing through the present day -- is slowly coming to an end. America's ability to impress its goals and desires upon a number of other nations is waning. Only one of the three pillars supporting the US hegemony, military superiority, remains intact. The other two, economic and 'soft' power [Ed.: 'Soft power' is something of a catch-all,] can be shown to be in recession.

Interestingly, the presidency of President of the United States of America Donald Trump can be shown to have accelerated the process of bringing the American Century to a close. One specific example is the push exerted by the Trump administration on NATO members to 'pay their own way'. There has been, for many decades, an unwritten agreement between the United States and the other members of the NATO alliance. It goes like this: 'America will underwrite your NATO dues and you will follow America's lead.' Nations that pay their own way need give America no special heed. There is, as yet, nothing to indicate that President Trump understood this relationship nor the full implications of his position regarding it.

If one thinks about it a bit, other instances in which American dollars have purchased American power will come to mind.

Empires come and, history has shown, empires go. America's empire, when all is said and done, hopefully will be shown to have been one of the more benign.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the prophylactic Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

Reminder. I try to respond to all who quote my posts. If you do not get a response from me, it may be that you've made it onto my 'Ignore' list.

America's empire

We're an empire?

 

[Luther]

Yes. We have an obligation to pay to keep our military strong...after all, it's our own self-defense at stake.

But we DON'T have an obligation to pay to keep other country's military strong for the purpose of being able to tell them what to do.

Yes. We have an obligation to pay to keep our military strong...after all, it's our own self-defense at stake.

Except, I'm not sure that's what is happening

Way too much $$ waste in how the military conducts itself and I'm not afraid to say that

 

[notquiteright]

Yes. We have an obligation to pay to keep our military strong...after all, it's our own self-defense at stake. But we DON'T have an obligation to pay to keep other country's military strong for the purpose of being able to tell them what to do.

We have multiples of 'defense' far past our needs to protect us- now to protect corporate concerns around the globe is another matter, propping up the defense corporations past any need to defend the Homeland a head shaker....

We keep membership in Nato to have a toehold in Europe- do note we keep combat troops on the Russian border- why???? Poland spending decades in the Warsaw Pact- didn't hurt us, why are we now poking the bear????

But again it's the area of soft power where we are fading- much of the electronic components come from nations the rabid right rails against- capitalism at it's 'finest'- go with the cheapest source.

In corporations we trust... ✌

 

[Mycroft]

We keep membership in Nato to have a toehold in Europe- do note we keep combat troops on the Russian border- why???? Poland spending decades in the Warsaw Pact- didn't hurt us, why are we now poking the bear????

~Again...snipping the irrelevant stuff.~

Keeping a "membership in Nato" doesn't require paying NATO countries to build up their own defenses. Hence...asking them to abide by their own agreements and spend their own money. (After our help in rebuilding those NATO countries after WWII, they certainly have the money.)

We are not "poking the bear". The bear makes its own choices. Our choice to have combat troops in Poland is primarily based on favorable trade relations...and it's their request. That's something that is desirable for both parties.

 

[Allan]

Keeping a "membership in Nato" doesn't require paying NATO countries to build up their own defenses.

Really? You pay NATO countries do you?

 

[notquiteright]

Keeping a "membership in Nato" doesn't require paying NATO countries to build up their own defenses. Hence...asking them to abide by their own agreements and spend their own money. (After our help in rebuilding those NATO countries after WWII, they certainly have the money.) We are not "poking the bear". The bear makes its own choices. Our choice to have combat troops in Poland is primarily based on favorable trade relations...and it's their request. That's something that is desirable for both parties.

You dwell on the military as if NATO drains us, it doesn't. Massive 'defense' contracts, hundreds of redundant bases around the world, senseless continuing production do.

We are poking the bear, of course Poland wants us there- so does the Ukraine and dozens of other countries, we prop up undemocratic governments as long as they claim to hate commies and we are a great income stream, but to claim the trade relations is more than a nit in our economy is delusional....

Imagine if Russia built a large Naval Base in Cuba. The Cubans asked them to, something desirable to both parties...

 

[Torus34]

@notquiteright:

Hi!

For perspective, the total US military spending for the defense of Europe is about $US34B/yr. To put that into perspective, we in the US spend roughly $US8B/yr on -- potato chips!

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

[notquiteright]

@notquiteright:
Hi! For perspective, the total US military spending for the defense of Europe is about $US34B/yr. To put that into perspective, we in the US spend roughly $US8B/yr on -- potato chips! Regards, stay safe 'n well.

LMAO- as American as belly fat!!!!

Our entire DoD budget is 718 billion so Europe seems like minor priority.... ✌

 

[Torus34]

LMAO- as American as belly fat!!!!

Our entire DoD budget is 718 billion so Europe seems like minor priority.... ✌

Hi again.

It appears that the big to-do over NATO spending was, to use Mr. Willy Shakespeare's words, 'Much Ado About Nothing.' Thus it is with many political 'talking points' when one takes the time and effort to consider them dispassionately. It's what makes listening to political apologists so much fun. I use listening to them as an exercise in maintaining my ability to recognize logical sleights of hand. Some, sad to say, can make as many [intentional] errors per minute as President of the United States of America can tell lies.

Regards, best to you and yours.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq were the beginning of the long slow decline of the American Century. The costs of the wars drained American coffers and wasted money that would have been better spent on domestic infrastructure.

The political cost of the invasion domestically increased the divisions between various political groups and the wars distracted the US from future potential opponents. The Iraq war was one of the greatest gifts the US could give to China, Trump was the other

 

[Torus34]

The US invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq were the beginning of the long slow decline of the American Century. The costs of the wars drained American coffers and wasted money that would have been better spent on domestic infrastructure.

The political cost of the invasion domestically increased the divisions between various political groups and the wars distracted the US from future potential opponents. The Iraq war was one of the greatest gifts the US could give to China, Trump was the other

Hi!

There are a number of specific events one can cite as turning points for the US hegemony. President Lyndon Johnson's war is one of them. However, there are a number of external factors which also bear upon the reduction of importance of the United States of America on the world scene. The rise of the 'BRICS'* bloc is one. I'm personally inclined to look at the rise and, now, slow fall of the American Century as a relatively smooth curve as opposed to a curve with a sudden change of direction at any one point.

What should [Ed.: but will probably not,] be of importance for our federal legislators and administrations is how we, as a nation, will prepare for our place in the world in the future. Great Britain, for example, had to deal with a flux of imported cricket bats. [C'mon, cut Ol' Torus some slack. Allow him a touch of humor now and then.]

Regards, best to you and yours.

* Brazil, Russia, India, China & South Africa. There are a number of other acronyms floating about.

 

[Luce]

Don't worry. It's not over yet. Biden will do his best to dangle American money throughout the world to benefit those who have given him...and the entire Elite structure in our country...millions.

But I have to ask: Why is it a bad thing for NATO to pay their way and, subsequently, make their own decisions? Why should the US give them money and, in return, give them their marching orders?

Delicious bitterness.

 

[Mycroft]

Delicious bitterness.

bitterness? Not at all.

Just pointing out reality.

 

[Luce]

bitterness? Not at all.

Just pointing out reality.

After the last 8 weeks, I'm having trouble taking you as an expert on reality.

 

[Mycroft]

After the last 8 weeks, I'm having trouble taking you as an expert on reality.

I know. It's hard for you to recognize reality after your four year diet of Mainstream Media swill, cool aid and nothingburgers.

 

[Luce]

and nothingburgers.

Like the "massive voter fraud"?

 

[Dayton3]

There has been, for many decades, an unwritten agreement between the United States and the other members of the NATO alliance. It goes like this: 'America will underwrite your NATO dues and you will follow America's lead.' Nations that pay their own way need give America no special heed. There is, as yet, nothing to indicate that President Trump understood this relationship nor the full implications of his position regarding it.

Where were you in the 1980s when the Reagan Admin. was constantly both publicly and privately urging U.S. NATO allies to pay their fair share of the alliance defense burden?

 

[Grand Mal]

Don't worry. It's not over yet. Biden will do his best to dangle American money throughout the world to benefit those who have given him...and the entire Elite structure in our country...millions.

But I have to ask: Why is it a bad thing for NATO to pay their way and, subsequently, make their own decisions? Why should the US give them money and, in return, give them their marching orders?

You don't know how the whole NATO thing works, obviously.
But hey, never let ignorance stop you, right?