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The End of Retirement

LowDown

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Retirement is an invention of the 20th century and will not long outlive it.

When everyone is a senior then nobody is. If there are no young people around to pave the roads, police the streets, weed the yards, fix the roofs, or give people a bed bath then you're going to have to do it yourself.

All over the Western world the birth rate is nose diving, more severely in some countries than in others. In Portugal the effects of the low birth rate are already being felt in terms of declining services and infrastructure. Portugal was once a great empire. Now it is a backwater. Soon it will be a graveyard.

But what else is new? Progressives work for a world in which a man may eat in idleness the bread provided by others and never be called on to fight any battle or feel obligated to do anything. Time was when people like Theodore Roosevelt likened women who opted not to have children to soldiers who ran away in battle or men who refused to support their families. Nowdays? ... one strains to imagine the outrage this sort of attitude would generate. But in the final analysis those who have nothing to contribute, nothing to die for, and nothing to do have nothing to live for, and increasingly Western populations are deciding collectively to check into a Swiss euthanasia clinic.

(Paraphrased from Mark Steyn)
 

Sarcogito

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Birth rates aren't nose diving, they just aren't growing as fast. As the developing countries become developed countries their population growth tends to level off. My guess is the planet will hit an equilibrium this century. Which is good.

That isn't to say there won't be some tough years during the transition. I am sure the US will be stretched as the boomers age. And as people live longer and longer we may have to rethink what the "retirement age" should be. Hopefully the longer years will be accompanied with better health as well. The worst case scenario is people take longer to die, exhausting their savings, but are still too feeble to work.

Retirement won't go away. But people may have to wait a bit longer to reach it.
 

Campbell

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Retirement is an invention of the 20th century and will not long outlive it.

When everyone is a senior then nobody is. If there are no young people around to pave the roads, police the streets, weed the yards, fix the roofs, or give people a bed bath then you're going to have to do it yourself.

All over the Western world the birth rate is nose diving, more severely in some countries than in others. In Portugal the effects of the low birth rate are already being felt in terms of declining services and infrastructure. Portugal was once a great empire. Now it is a backwater. Soon it will be a graveyard.

But what else is new? Progressives work for a world in which a man may eat in idleness the bread provided by others and never be called on to fight any battle or feel obligated to do anything. Time was when people like Theodore Roosevelt likened women who opted not to have children to soldiers who ran away in battle or men who refused to support their families. Nowdays? ... one strains to imagine the outrage this sort of attitude would generate. But in the final analysis those who have nothing to contribute, nothing to die for, and nothing to do have nothing to live for, and increasingly Western populations are deciding collectively to check into a Swiss euthanasia clinic.

(Paraphrased from Mark Steyn)
I suggest mounting them on the nose of an interstellar rocket and shooting their ass into outer space. The Eskimos used to place the old and dying on the edge of an ice patch, cut it loose and float it out to sea. They say it's the most merciful kind of death. Personally I think they should follow the lead of about three western states and allow voluntary suicide. I'm nearly 79 and after spending six months or more at this forum I would volunteer for it.
 

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Or lived 70 years ago. The age of empire is over for many countries, high birth rates require either high job creation or wars with large casualty lists.

Not sure how the OP addresses the end of retirement as many companies long ago abandoned, scrapped or plundered traditional retirement plans- how many gold watches are being handed out these days?
 

CRUE CAB

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My dad retired before 45. But worked almost the rest of his life. He died in 1987.
Nothing different now. Most people that retire, still do something to keep them active and engaged.
 

Campbell

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My dad retired before 45. But worked almost the rest of his life. He died in 1987.
Nothing different now. Most people that retire, still do something to keep them active and engaged.
I retired in 1993 and I have. I've fished and traveled. By God I earned it. I worked in Oak Ridge around all kinds of toxicity and radiation for 41 years. My wife worked there for 43 years. We're gonna blow it out our asses till we die. We've been to Las Vegas four times in the last eight years and are trying as best we can to spend our kid's inheritance...they don't need it anyway, two of the three have masters degrees and the other is a project director for the DOE earning more than $100K per annum.

The first time one of my paychecks was docked for a social security payment was 1950. I made my retirement the old fashioned way.....I earned it.
 
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humbolt

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Retirement is an invention of the 20th century and will not long outlive it.

When everyone is a senior then nobody is. If there are no young people around to pave the roads, police the streets, weed the yards, fix the roofs, or give people a bed bath then you're going to have to do it yourself.

All over the Western world the birth rate is nose diving, more severely in some countries than in others. In Portugal the effects of the low birth rate are already being felt in terms of declining services and infrastructure. Portugal was once a great empire. Now it is a backwater. Soon it will be a graveyard.

But what else is new? Progressives work for a world in which a man may eat in idleness the bread provided by others and never be called on to fight any battle or feel obligated to do anything. Time was when people like Theodore Roosevelt likened women who opted not to have children to soldiers who ran away in battle or men who refused to support their families. Nowdays? ... one strains to imagine the outrage this sort of attitude would generate. But in the final analysis those who have nothing to contribute, nothing to die for, and nothing to do have nothing to live for, and increasingly Western populations are deciding collectively to check into a Swiss euthanasia clinic.

(Paraphrased from Mark Steyn)
Demographics in Europe has taught us that liberals don't procreate. They're too self absorbed to bother. Actually, that's good news. Retirement? For most this implies that work was actually done to start with, and we're seeing here that work is no longer of value unless it's someone else's labor - certainly not yours.
 

Campbell

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Demographics in Europe has taught us that liberals don't procreate. They're too self absorbed to bother. Actually, that's good news. Retirement? For most this implies that work was actually done to start with, and we're seeing here that work is no longer of value unless it's someone else's labor - certainly not yours.

LMAO!!!! The people with the money don't do ****. Others wait on them hand and foot and that's the way they're trying to keep it. At some point that stuff won't work and when it happens everybody will know it.

 
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humbolt

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LMAO!!!! The people with the money don't do ****. Others wait on them hand and foot and that's the way they're trying to keep it. At some point that stuff won't work and when it happens everybody will know it.
I know many people with lots of money who work their asses off. No, they don't lay brick, pick vegetables or run a cash register at the fast food place. They do pursue their careers 12 to 16 hours per day, many well into later life - even though they don't need to hit a tap at much of anything. The folks you're talking about have never worked, and likely have no idea what's involved. What happens to them most don't care about to start with.
 

Campbell

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I know many people with lots of money who work their asses off. No, they don't lay brick, pick vegetables or run a cash register at the fast food place. They do pursue their careers 12 to 16 hours per day, many well into later life - even though they don't need to hit a tap at much of anything. The folks you're talking about have never worked, and likely have no idea what's involved. What happens to them most don't care about to start with.
Shucks......let me tell you what they do. They use their connections to do the same kind of things that C student George W. Bush did. Dodge the draft, get his first start in business through his old man, connect up with the right people and get elected governor and then the rest is history. Speaking of history...that bastard won the presidential election by a 5-4 vote in the U S supreme court and then assumed a surplus, started two wars, one totally unnecessary, doubled the debt and wrecked the economy. He should be hung. Instead of that they built him a memorial library.

This describes George W. Bush better than any other thing I've seen or heard about:

Bush "Fool Me Once..." - YouTube
 
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ocean515

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Shucks......let me tell you what they do. They use their connections to do the same kind of things that C student George W. Bush did. Dodge the draft, get his first start in business through his old man, connect up with the right people and get elected governor and then the rest is history. Speaking of history...that bastard won the presidential election by a 5-4 vote in the U S supreme court and then assumed a surplus, started two wars, one totally unnecessary, doubled the debt and wrecked the economy. He should be hung. Instead of that they built him a memorial library.

This describes George W. Bush better than any other thing I've seen or heard about:

Bush "Fool Me Once..." - YouTube
How many of those people you reckon operate the way you envision they do?
 

polgara

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Demographics in Europe has taught us that liberals don't procreate. They're too self absorbed to bother. Actually, that's good news. Retirement? For most this implies that work was actually done to start with, and we're seeing here that work is no longer of value unless it's someone else's labor - certainly not yours.
Good morning, humbolt. :2wave:

I have really tried very hard to understand how people can have that mindset, but I just can't wrap my mind around the concept! The parents and teachers of my generation instilled the work ethic in their children, and you know how difficult it is to undo early training! So I'm forced to go through life out of step? I guess so! What's worse, I have taught my children that hard work and honesty usually equals success, so now they're out of step, too. Sad.... :shrug: :wow:
 

Campbell

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How many of those people you reckon operate the way you envision they do?
It's all part of the same conspiracy....not that you will ever look at it:

Air Traffic Controllers Walk Reagan Fires PATCO Strikers














Total U S Debt


09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accomodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)


09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)


09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38(Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00
 
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ocean515

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It's all part of the same conspiracy....not that you will ever look at it:

Air Traffic Controllers Walk Reagan Fires PATCO Strikers














Total U S Debt


09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accomodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)


09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)


09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38(Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

I guess it's an issue that has to do with perspective. Lots of cooks in the kitchen. That reality doesn't change, no matter how obsessed you are with name above the door.

When it comes to Patco, the jackwads deserved to be tossed. Who needs liars and thiefs controlling the safety of men, women, and children?
 

Heebie Jeebie

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It's all part of the same conspiracy....not that you will ever look at it:

Air Traffic Controllers Walk Reagan Fires PATCO Strikers
Uh-oh Chartman strikes again, with charts that have nothing to do with the topic!

Hey you left out the part about the PATCO workers being fired because they went on strike when their contract had a No Strike clause.
 

Diving Mullah

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Retirement is an invention of the 20th century and will not long outlive it.

When everyone is a senior then nobody is. If there are no young people around to pave the roads, police the streets, weed the yards, fix the roofs, or give people a bed bath then you're going to have to do it yourself.

All over the Western world the birth rate is nose diving, more severely in some countries than in others. In Portugal the effects of the low birth rate are already being felt in terms of declining services and infrastructure. Portugal was once a great empire. Now it is a backwater. Soon it will be a graveyard.

But what else is new? Progressives work for a world in which a man may eat in idleness the bread provided by others and never be called on to fight any battle or feel obligated to do anything. Time was when people like Theodore Roosevelt likened women who opted not to have children to soldiers who ran away in battle or men who refused to support their families. Nowdays? ... one strains to imagine the outrage this sort of attitude would generate. But in the final analysis those who have nothing to contribute, nothing to die for, and nothing to do have nothing to live for, and increasingly Western populations are deciding collectively to check into a Swiss euthanasia clinic.

(Paraphrased from Mark Steyn)
That is why we need to bring young vibrant families from third world countries to help sustain the population growth.

Mixed Gene Pool is always good for the collective
assimilation of subsequent generations will help ease cultural difference.

Many will go back to home countries and spread properties.

This idiotic mentality of tribalism and self isolation has never paid off. I believe in Open borders and one nation under the sun

Sadly the xenophobes among us think differently...but happily their numbers are shrinking and natural selection will eventually make them disappear.

until then we have just roll eyes and tolerate them.

Diving Mullah
 

LowDown

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That is why we need to bring young vibrant families from third world countries to help sustain the population growth.
This helps some. It has held birth rates in Northwest Europe up so far. But what we are seeing is that soon after arriving the birth rates of immigrant groups fall off rapidly. If constantly replenished by new immigration there is the problem of this mass of un-assimilated people that never blends in.

Why is it only Western nations that are not allowed to be proud of and protective of their cultures?
 
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I think the fact that the birth rate is leveling out is a great thing. We will have to go through a tough "transitional" stage when there are not enough young people to care for the baby boomers, but I believe that any stress put on our infrastructure in this period will be well worth the relief and stability we will have on the other end of it. The world is slowly making progress towards stabilizing population growth, hopefully before the world becomes too overpopulated. MDCs are reaching this point, and that is a great thing.
 

Carjosse

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Do you know the solution to this problem? Immigration.
 

Diving Mullah

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This helps some. It has held birth rates in Northwest Europe up so far. But what we are seeing is that soon after arriving the birth rates of immigrant groups fall off rapidly. If constantly replenished by new immigration there is the problem of this mass of un-assimilated people that never blends in.

Why is it only Western nations that are not allowed to be proud of and protective of their cultures?
Of course we are...Don't we celebrate Halloween, Saint Patrick Day and October fest? Not to mention Valentine and News Years which actually are fairly big holidays in middle East in countries as well likee Iran, Kuwait, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Cypress(granted not a middle east country), and Egypt, and Morocco. These are the countries that I have witness these celebrations and even acknowledgement by the government.

Which Western Holiday you are not allowed to be proud and protective of?

Just curious?

Diving Mullah
 

Carjosse

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This helps some. It has held birth rates in Northwest Europe up so far. But what we are seeing is that soon after arriving the birth rates of immigrant groups fall off rapidly. If constantly replenished by new immigration there is the problem of this mass of un-assimilated people that never blends in.

Why is it only Western nations that are not allowed to be proud of and protective of their cultures?
Assimilation is not a big issue, immigrants as long as they learn the language and their children are forced to learn it as a first language there is usually no issue.
 

Campbell

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I guess it's an issue that has to do with perspective. Lots of cooks in the kitchen. That reality doesn't change, no matter how obsessed you are with name above the door.

When it comes to Patco, the jackwads deserved to be tossed. Who needs liars and thiefs controlling the safety of men, women, and children?
Yeah...the jackwads who were part of the middle class which no longer exists thanks to the last thirty years of Republicans.

I've been around this country a lot longer than most and I have seen the upper 1% take over everything and they will not be satisfied till they have their Lord/Serf society. If you can't see it you're part of it.
 

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Good morning, humbolt. :2wave:

I have really tried very hard to understand how people can have that mindset, but I just can't wrap my mind around the concept! The parents and teachers of my generation instilled the work ethic in their children, and you know how difficult it is to undo early training! So I'm forced to go through life out of step? I guess so! What's worse, I have taught my children that hard work and honesty usually equals success, so now they're out of step, too. Sad.... :shrug: :wow:
Maybe we're a dying breed. Those who refuse work should be denied food. Cruel? I don't think so. I think that's called reaping what's sown.
 

Campbell

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Maybe we're a dying breed. Those who refuse work should be denied food. Cruel? I don't think so. I think that's called reaping what's sown.
If the Bush administration and the banks had not wrecked the economy most people would still have a job. During every Republican run including the Hoover depression the Republicans have left a higher rate of unemployment than what they assumed. It's a statistical fact. George W. Bush assumed an unemployment rate of 4.3%.'Course he also assumed a balanced budget, immediately cut taxes for the wealthy...not once but twice, started two wars...one totally unnecessary and doubled the national debt from $5.7 trillion to almost $12 trillion.
 
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