The End of Men

[Caedon]

I think that it's the idea of equality more than anything. And just as with any group who is in the minority, they want their day in the sun too. It's understandable. Not that there aren't women who don't love the idea of female superiority. Just read the SCUM Manifesto by Valerie Solanas for an example of that.

I'm fine with equality - in fact, I'm more than fine with it. I fully support equality in every aspect that comes to mind. However, there is a marked difference between saying "in general, men and women are equally capable" versus "in general, women are better suited to business..." The second is the clear intent of the original article. It's a bit silly. Actually, scratch that. It's very silly. Just as silly as the notion that men are better than women in business.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the notion that a person having a vagina instead of a penis would make them not do well in business.

Brain chemistry, males and females have different biochemical make ups which influence their decision making skills, especially in relation to career choices.

You can't change a million years of evolution because we think it's wrong.

They are different biologically, but I fail to see why it is such a big deal to treat them equally in a societal way. They are, after all, human beings as well. Plus, I think the argument of "Well, it's always been that way..so why change it now?" is kind of a cop-out. I think there are a fair amount of men out there who are still enjoying their ride at the top and now that it is slightly threatened they are getting defensive and essentially scared.

Not true at all.
Men and women are inherently different, not just on the outside but on the inside as well.
We have different biological tendencies towards career and other social choices.

The notion that those at the top are scared is hilarious because if that is all that was holding things together, chicks would of already conquered the work place through superior business tactics.

That isn't happening, they are becoming school teachers and nurses for the most part.

 

[Dr_Patrick]

Brain chemistry, males and females have different biochemical make ups which influence their decision making skills, especially in relation to career choices.

You can't change a million years of evolution because we think it's wrong.

Then show me a study (unbiased of course) to back up your assertion that women aren't as good as men in business. I'm dying to see some proof on this.

Not true at all.
Men and women are inherently different, not just on the outside but on the inside as well.
We are different biological tendencies towards career and other social choices.

Which is why I said this:

They are different biologically

The notion that those at the top are scared is hilarious because if that is all that was holding things together, chicks would of already conquered the work place through superior business tactics.

That isn't happening, they are becoming school teachers and nurses for the most part.

I'm not saying all at the top are scared. I'm a guy, which means I already have an advantage because we still live in a male dominated society. However, I more than welcome a change to this. It's about time. There are a fair amount of guys who are terrified by the idea, though.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

The End of Men - Magazine - The Atlantic



Money quote: With few exceptions, the greater the power of women, the greater the country’s economic success.

Any thoughts on where we're headed culturally?

That's because we rock and exude . . . ah . . . intelligence.

Hah - reminds me of Star Trek and the Orion Women.

Seriously, however, I don't want the world to be dominated one over hte other - I'd like equality. Nice and even. NO false assumptions based on gender that __ is better than __. Things should be more competitive - aside gender and race.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Then show me a study (unbiased of course) to back up your assertion that women aren't as good as men in business. I'm dying to see some proof on this.

It depends on the business really.
If we are talking about risk taking endeavors, men clearly outdo women.
For the sake of stability, women do better than men.

There is a difference of style that is genetic.

This shows how women tend to shy away from risk.
How Women Invest Differently Than Men - WSJ.com

This is an interview with a person that says mixed management is good but I think we need to figure out what kind of mixed management.
Credit Suisse -

I'm not saying all at the top are scared. I'm a guy, which means I already have an advantage because we still live in a male dominated society. However, I more than welcome a change to this. It's about time. There are a fair amount of guys who are terrified by the idea, though.

I'm not welcome to it, if it comes by force.
That's wrong, if it will displace talented people for non talented people.

I don't think we should embrace any fairytale, utopian view of equality because women and men have different strengths and weaknesses which are suited for their particular areas.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

No facts are the expert witness on this.

Black males get a particularly bum ride, as they aren't as likely to see a dollar from SS and Medicare, while white females are the biggest beneficiaries.

Poor babies. Women were equivalent to indentured servants throughout most of history. Now that we are starting to attain equality--ON OUR MERITS--you whine about women getting an unfair advantage.

Kind of hilarious, really. However, if you'd actually bothered to READ the article, you'd see that colleges are using scholarships and financial aid to recruit MEN to address the disproportionate female enrollment.

So, they're actually giving MEN financial advantages to try and level the academic playing field. Apparently, the boys can't achieve educationally on their own merits.

Apologies for the snarky tone, but I couldn't resist.

 

[Dr_Patrick]

It depends on the business really.
If we are talking about risk taking endeavors, men clearly outdo women.
For the sake of stability, women do better than men.

There is a difference of style that is genetic.

I'm not talking about risk-taking endeavors. Business isn't always about taking risks.

This shows how women tend to shy away from risk.
How Women Invest Differently Than Men - WSJ.com

Did you read that article? It paints women in a pretty good light saying that taking risks, like men do, isn't really good business sense. I'd say that this article proves quite the opposite of what you are asserting here.

This is an interview with a person that says mixed management is good but I think we need to figure out what kind of mixed management.
Credit Suisse -

That's also not a study. It's one person's opinion.

I'm not welcome to it, if it comes by force.
That's wrong, if it will displace talented people for non talented people.

I don't think it will come by force. I think it's a part of the natural progression of things.

I don't think we should embrace any fairytale, utopian view of equality because women and men have different strengths and weaknesses which are suited for their particular areas.

I also don't think it's a fairytale or a utopian view.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I'm not talking about risk-taking endeavors. Business isn't always about taking risks.

One could argue that testosterone-driven risk-taking propensities got us into the current financial depression we're experiencing through gambling on risky investments.

 

[Mell]

Yea I wish people would get over this crap.
Chicks doing dick wagging isn't very attractive.

Maybe one day we'll realize that people are naturally better at some things than others and it won't be a pissing contest of which sexual organs are better.

Well, this is true, but women dont have a choice about 'dick wagging' if they want to get ahead right now.

And yes, it will be nice if one day people do realise that women do different things better than men do, but in order for this to happen successfully what women do well will need to be respected by both men and women themselves. It is difficult for women to respect what is given less status and economic benefits and want to do it. The main obstacle to overcome will be to make what women would do naturally more economically respected. But, there is progress being made in this area too. Things like counselling and therapy are becomming big business and more and more well paid, and this industry is natural for women and also dominated in greater numbers by them.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I also don't think it's a fairytale or a utopian view.

I find your equality-driven utopian views rather hot.

 

[Dr_Patrick]

One could argue that testosterone-driven risk-taking propensities got us into the current financial depression we're experiencing through gambling on risky investments.

Exactly! In fact, the article mentions that. That's why I was wondering why he posted it. :rofl

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Well, this is true, but women dont have a choice about 'dick wagging' if they want to get ahead right now.

And yes, it will be nice if one day people do realise that women do different things better than men do, but in order for this to happen successfully what women do well will need to be respected by both men and women themselves. It is difficult for women to respect what is given less status and economic benefits and want to do it. The main obstacle to overcome will be to make what women would do naturally more economically respected. But, there is progress being made in this area too. Things like counselling and therapy are becomming big business and more and more well paid, and this industry is natural for women and also dominated in greater numbers by them.

What women do better than men, according to Harry:

Pop babies out of their uterus
Burp babies
Diaper babies
Cook for their men
Vacuum, dust, sweep and mop for their men
Work as nurses, teachers, and dirty librarians
Act in porn

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Poor babies. Women were equivalent to indentured servants throughout most of history. Now that we are starting to attain equality--ON OUR MERITS--you whine about women getting an unfair advantage.

Bullcrap, women were not treated as some disposable slave.
By and large that is what men have been through out all of history.
We have always been the disposable gender.

Between war and work, we have always been expendable to society.

Kind of hilarious, really. However, if you'd actually bothered to READ the article, you'd see that colleges are using scholarships and financial aid to recruit MEN to address the disproportionate female enrollment.

So, they're actually giving MEN financial advantages to try and level the academic playing field. Apparently, the boys can't achieve educationally on their own merits.

Women have a definite advantage over men.
Modern schooling is largely designed by and operated by women.
Their gender bias comes over into the structure of the school itself and displaces boys, who would otherwise be successful in the right atmosphere.
What else did you expect to happen?

 

[Mell]

One could argue that testosterone-driven risk-taking propensities got us into the current financial depression we're experiencing through gambling on risky investments.

Indeed, and one would not have to look far to find convincing arguments for it. Economics could be more successful, if they were approached from both the male prespective and the female prespective. A female banker in Iceland who founded her own bank and has all female employees has demonstrated the female side of this economic success. But, the problem is that these 2 approaches have not yet been combined to make one solution which would be better than the individual solutions.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

What women do better than men, according to Harry:

Pop babies out of their uterus
Burp babies
Diaper babies
Cook for their men
Vacuum, dust, sweep and mop for their men
Work as nurses, teachers, and dirty librarians
Act in porn

Great job at hyperbole, care to actually add something?

 

[Dr_Patrick]

Bullcrap, women were not treated as some disposable slave.

Are you kidding me? For centuries women were treated this way. In some cultures they still are.

By and large that is what men have been through out all of history.
We have always been the disposable gender.

Between war and work, we have always been expendable to society.

:rofl Since when? Yes, it's such a burden to be at the top.

 

[Mell]

I find your equality-driven utopian views rather hot.

Yeah, thank goodness there are men who support womens rights. So often discussions like this get mowed over with sexist abuse, that most women have heard more than enough of, and likely back away from discussing politics and their approach to it, because of the abuse.

My boyfriend also is heavily supportive of womens rights. Though he can be as insensitive to them as men generally are, because they simply dont see the issues that effect women and not them, until women put them forward for attention.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I'm not talking about risk-taking endeavors. Business isn't always about taking risks.

For a business to grow, it is.

Did you read that article? It paints women in a pretty good light saying that taking risks, like men do, isn't really good business sense. I'd say that this article proves quite the opposite of what you are asserting here.

I was not trying to paint women in a dis favorable light.
It seems you and the other trolls here seem to assume I'm some misogynist twit.
Quite the contrary, I want women to do what makes them happy.
The same goes for men.

I think that the notion that women are outdoing men is dishonest and inflammatory.
I think the notion that women were slaves, is dishonest and exaggerated.

That's also not a study. It's one person's opinion.

An opinion with weight, which is also gender neutral.

I don't think it will come by force. I think it's a part of the natural progression of things.

Natural progression is good, I have no problem with that.
What I do have a problem is with people thinking that men are constantly holding women back.

It's a victim mentally, not grounded in reality.

I also don't think it's a fairytale or a utopian view.

Equality of outcome for 2 distinctly, biologically different beings is definitely utopian.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Bullcrap, women were not treated as some disposable slave.
By and large that is what men have been through out all of history.
We have always been the disposable gender.

Between war and work, we have always been expendable to society.

Women have a definite advantage over men.
Modern schooling is largely designed by and operated by women.Their gender bias comes over into the structure of the school itself and displaces boys, who would otherwise be successful in the right atmosphere.
What else did you expect to happen?

How is the modern educational system different from the educational system 100 years ago? Weren't children 100 years ago expected to sit quietly in a classroom and learn?

Poor, poor men. Poor, mistreated men. You suffer so.

 

[Mell]

No facts are the expert witness on this.

Black males get a particularly bum ride, as they aren't as likely to see a dollar from SS and Medicare, while white females are the biggest beneficiaries.

White women are discrimination against. Yes black people are too. All discrimination is bad. No point in comparing them, except to identify areas for progress.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Great job at hyperbole, care to actually add something?

I was just taking your "we all have gender roles" argumen to its natural and historic conclusion. ^.^

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I think that the notion that women are outdoing men is dishonest and inflammatory.
I think the notion that women were slaves, is dishonest and exaggerated..

For the vast majority of history, women have had no voice in selecting their government. They could not own property. If they divorced, they almost always automatically lost custody of their children. Their husband could beat them with impunity. Their father or male relatives determined who they would marry. If the woman refused, she might be forced/raped. Her economic options were EXTREMELY limited.

Sounds a lot like indentured servitude to me, with no hope of ever buying freedom.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Are you kidding me? For centuries women were treated this way. In some cultures they still are.

To some degree you could argue that but not to the hyperbolic level that you are making it out to be.

The vast majority of people in this world, regardless of gender, have been ruled over by despots.
To say that one had it worse than the other is dishonest or ignorant.

:rofl Since when? Yes, it's such a burden to be at the top.

If you count a peasant as "being at the top", you have an unusual world view.

 

[Mell]

That's a bit of a stretch in the truth.

Have women held a lower status, yea.
Was it right, no.

Exploited, no.



A female making the choice of being a parent should not be the burden of society.
It's important to some people, particularly parents.
For those that aren't parents, it's not important and it shouldn't be made important.

What about you try putting yourself in womens shoes and then giving an opinion.

And, what about men making the choice to be a parent? Are you suggesting we segregate the responsibilities of this and make women solely reponsible for it, both economically and otherwise. Those who are determined to be sexist would say this, but at the same time critisise modern custody laws.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I was just taking your "we all have gender roles" argumen to its natural and historic conclusion. ^.^

No you're being a troll.
I didn't say what you wrote at anytime.