The End of democracy

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

I wouldnt. I dont think Americans are worth sacraficing anything. If 49% are the 51% who are not are not worth dying for since this is a democracy.

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

You see conspiracy everywhere don't you? I'm sorry but I can't take anyone seriously who actually believes in the existence of the illuminati, secondly you contradict yourself in your own statement, you first claim that The Patriot Act has been used many times to infringe on the civil liberties of citizens, and then you turn right around and say that I can't possibly know if it has been used in the prosecution of a crime because it's non transparent. So, if it's non-transparent how the f do you know if it's been used to infringe on the rights of the citizenry? Thirdly I don't ever remember coming to the defense of renewing the patriotic act or expanding it in the form of a patriot act 2, however, I must say that if the patriot act was never created and there was (god forbid) another terrorist attack on U.S. soil then those of your ilk would almost assuradely turn right around and start clamoring on how Bush did not do enough to protect the public. And finally get a freaking life and quit reading the conspiracy sites, they'll rot your f****n brain man.

On another thread here I have already listed PAGES OF THEM. Go look for it. And they are mostly used to check political dissidents. Like mothers protesting and people in CHURCH who believe in GOD and FORGIVENESS and PEACE who dissagree with Bush.

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

Well The President has Dictorial Powers By the 1933 National Emergency Act, and since most people dont know about that...Most of America is, Pretty stupid.

America Has Never Been a Full Demoracry. Every Goverment is a Demorcracy, Just it depends how limited or expansive it is. When the US Was Founded, very few could vote, Only Wealth (Land Owning) White Men could Vote (Every Word in the Description is Important) . Then Later on it was included to All White Men, And Then To All Men In General. Next it was Also Given to White Women, And Then Very Later On To All Ethniticies (1960's). Yet Obviously there is still Other ways of preventing people from voting than by law...Like the Poll tax, and Having Guards At the Place, or simply making the process overly long and tedious, which makes them simply leave in anger.

FEMA IS A VERRY VERRY HIDEOUS PROVISION And YES most people are pretty stupid.

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

Also America is NOT a Democracy. Its been a REPUBLIC FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
IRREGUARDLESS OF VOTING. Its been a Republic ever since the civil war that I know of. I guess the Federalists where Republic (ans).:lol:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

On another thread here I have already listed PAGES OF THEM. Go look for it. And they are mostly used to check political dissidents. Like mothers protesting and people in CHURCH who believe in GOD and FORGIVENESS and PEACE who dissagree with Bush.

You show me one case in which a person was prosecuted under the patriot act, just one little case regardless of how small or insignificant it is, just one case which was brought in front of a court of law which used evidence obtained throught the patriot act. The patriot act has only been used to collect evidence to obtain a warrant.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Also America is NOT a Democracy. Its been a REPUBLIC FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
IRREGUARDLESS OF VOTING. Its been a Republic ever since the civil war that I know of. I guess the Federalists where Republic (ans).:lol:

I think we've been a Republic ever since the begining of our country, hence that catchy fraise: and to the Republic for which it stands, furthermore, an absolute democracy is mob rule which doesn't protect the minority. A republic is a form of democracy in which the will of the majority is respected, while at the same time protecting the rights of the minority, so do you believe that being a republic as opposed to an absolute democracy is a bad thing?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I wouldnt. I dont think Americans are worth sacraficing anything. If 49% are the 51% who are not are not worth dying for since this is a democracy.

I have no Idea what this one means???????

 

[SKILMATIC]

I have no Idea what this one means???????

Dont fell bad me neither.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

It means that, if A Majority votes one way, but it is very close, and the decision is done COMPLETELY To the 51%'s Way, and ignoring the 49%'s Opinion, it is democracy, but it is bad, and that shows that singular "Democracy" is a poor state of goverment, where 1 vote can change the whole decision, where a Comprimise should instead be looked to be achieved, like in their definition of Republic.

 

[psholtz]

On the subject of the "end" of democracy, it is important to bear in mind that U.S. did not even *become* a democracy until the passage of the 17th Amendment to the Constitution in 1913. Prior to that, the U.S. was a Constitutional Republic, as per how the founders of this nation intended.

The conduct of U.S. foreign policy since 1913 has, in my view, confirmed all the worst fears (and more) that our founders had wrt "democracy", which you can find cataloged in the Federalist Papers (esp those written by Madison), among other places.

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

I like you scholtz.... Pretty good info there.

49%-51% for those of you who did not get it, Im refering to you SICK CHRISTIANS. The ones who are obviously brainwashed into pushing along a belief that will send THEM to hell. The 51% of americans who believe TORTURE is good and SADDAM HELPED ****ING BIN LADEN. The 51% who thinks the ECONOMY IS DOING GOOD. The 51% who think that the war was not TOTAL BULLSHIT. And the 51% who think that BUSH IS NOT A PIECE OF ****.


51% was the doctored number of the votes. But its an official one I doubt you will disagree with. In all reality it was much lower. But I dont care.


On a second note I believe this was a democracy in the begining when we are all Kings. You know when we where all SOVEREIGN. Now your a king. Such a slight difference no body cought it. Its changed quite a bit hasnt it.

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

So it has been used correct. To collect evidence. That is a ****ING CRIME. IT VIOLATES MY ****ING RIGHTS. and I am NOT ****ING HAPPY ABOUT IT. You may. The only difference between you and me is you Love and Adore Uncle Sam, & I think hes a piece of ****. Uncle Sam should be Santified. Can do no wrong eh... lol. Sorry I dont subscribe to that ****.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

So it has been used correct. To collect evidence. That is a ****ING CRIME. IT VIOLATES MY ****ING RIGHTS. and I am NOT ****ING HAPPY ABOUT IT. You may. The only difference between you and me is you Love and Adore Uncle Sam, & I think hes a piece of ****. Uncle Sam should be Santified. Can do no wrong eh... lol. Sorry I dont subscribe to that ****.

Look, I don't like the Patriot Act anymore than you do, if you notice I'm a conservative libertarian . . . a true conservative not a neocon, however, after 911 the world changed, the Patriot Act is in my opinion a necessary evil for good or ill.

 

[dragonslayer]

You know an awfull lot dont you. You dont know **** about the patriot act. And you dont know **** about republicans/democrats or about what we have as democrats and republicans today.

I think you should have used citizens through taxes more than individualism. Individualism is under attack by the administration. You obviously dont know **** about your rights. Because your on the presidents jock about how they are not infringing on you. The Patriot Act HAS BEEN used many times to infringe on the rights of citizens. It is a verry FASCIST bill. It is nearly IDENTICAL to the Enabling act. And YOU DONT ****ING KNOW IF ANYONE HAS BEEN PROSECUTED UNDER IT BECAUSE ITS ALL NON TRANSPARENT AND HIGHLY ****ING SECRET. So Please STFU and quit going around like you know it all.

I cannot believe that Titus is still writing his Bushshit in here. Titus, I have read about people I have that work for the New Republican Party, and some of its Fascists think tanks as disruptors and bushshitters, with the goal of
stopping the truth from being spread. The Truth will Killl Bush's and the Right's chances of getting elected. The Bush Administration, is very troubled by the truth.:roll:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

I cannot believe that Titus is still writing his Bushshit in here. Titus, I have read about people I have that work for the New Republican Party, and some of its Fascists think tanks as disruptors and bushshitters, with the goal of
stopping the truth from being spread. The Truth will Killl Bush's and the Right's chances of getting elected. The Bush Administration, is very troubled by the truth.:roll:

Damn, I've been outted! You caught me I'm part of the conspiracy. Red Team Go, Red Team Go! Silence the subversive he knows to much. I hope you like black helicopters my friend because they'll be arriving shortly. LMFAO

Oh and Bush is running for a third term? That's news to me, Bush already was reelected if I recall correctly there was something about an election in the news for awhile although I'll admit it was located on the back pages so I'll forgive you for not having heard about it.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

Look, I don't like the Patriot Act anymore than you do, if you notice I'm a conservative libertarian . . . a true conservative not a neocon, however, after 911 the world changed, the Patriot Act is in my opinion a necessary evil for good or ill.

After 9/11 the only thing that changed was that the US Finally got a little rebound Payback from the Evil it has done, And No Terrorists can take away our rights or freedom, We take it away ourselves. Those Terrorists can just provoke it, but NOONE Can take it away EXCEPT Us. Noone Else. So the Patriot Act was Not "Neccasary", And Besides the president already had those powers, thats just reinforcing them, The Senate Act in the 1970s which allowed the President to keep his Emergency Dictorial powers, so The Patriot act was pretty much just giving a little more power, So the world hasnt change much.

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

Damn, I've been outted! You caught me I'm part of the conspiracy. Red Team Go, Red Team Go! Silence the subversive he knows to much. I hope you like black helicopters my friend because they'll be arriving shortly. LMFAO

Oh and Bush is running for a third term? That's news to me, Bush already was reelected if I recall correctly there was something about an election in the news for awhile although I'll admit it was located on the back pages so I'll forgive you for not having heard about it.

He elected himself 2 ****ing times in a row. What the **** more do you want. Looks like nazi germany to me....

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

He elected himself 2 ****ing times in a row. What the **** more do you want. Looks like nazi germany to me....

You really just can't get over the fact that you lost can you?

The closest thing we had to a dictator in this country was f'n Bill mother f'n Clinton but the left loves him, hmm, why is that?

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

Please tell me how he was a dictator... I am verrry eager to hear this. I dont like him for getting us in the trade agreement.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

Actually FDR Was The Biggest Dictator in our country, he issued the National Emergency ACt of 1933 which The Congress Voted to Surrender Emergency Powers to the President, Making Him Dictator in National Crisis. And This has been in effect all through 1933, it was renewed again in 1970's, Here is the link to the renewal act:

www.freedomsite.net/93-549.htm

 

[Youve Got To Be Kidding!]

Look, I don't like the Patriot Act anymore than you do, if you notice I'm a conservative libertarian . . . a true conservative not a neocon, however, after 911 the world changed, the Patriot Act is in my opinion a necessary evil for good or ill.

You are no freaking Libertarian. LMFAO. HAHAHHAAHHAH How can ANY LIBERTARIAN endorse the patriot act.... It goes against the WHOLE PARTIES IDEOLOGY HAHAHHAAHHAHA...... By the way well nevermind.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

You are no freaking Libertarian. LMFAO. HAHAHHAAHHAH How can ANY LIBERTARIAN endorse the patriot act.... It goes against the WHOLE PARTIES IDEOLOGY HAHAHHAAHHAHA...... By the way well nevermind.

Look that's my whole point I don't like the Patriot Act, however, I'm a realist first and formost and the fact of the matter is that it is a necessary evil, I'm not a tow the party line kind of a guy I make up my own mind on every issue so hahahahahahahaha.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The main reason that I'm a libertarian is because I don't like the expansion of the Fed Gov't that's happened under Bush but I have to admit that we're in a state of war, if we were not I would totally oppose something like the Patriot Act. The worlds changed since 911 it's sad but it's true. You realize do realize that there was similar legislation to the Patriot Act enacted during ww1 and ww2, such as the sedition act of 1917 which was later repealed in `1921. Trust me the Patriot Act isn't permanent.

 

[The Truth-Bringer]

How has it expanded? Its only expanded because its better than other administrations , because its LETTING US KNOW THIS!!!! The other administrations had this litle SEnate Act in their pocket and almost noone knew about it! This Vital Senate Act that Quotes

"This vast range of powers, taken together, confer enough authority to rule the country without reference to normal Constitutional processes."

And

"Under the powers delegated by these statutes, the President may: seize property; organize and control the means of production; seize commodities; assign military forces abroad; institute martial law; seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens"

At least this administration is letting us know its controlling us and limiting our rights.

 

[psholtz]

The main reason that I'm a libertarian is because I don't like the expansion of the Fed Gov't that's happened under Bush but I have to admit that we're in a state of war, if we were not I would totally oppose something like the Patriot Act. The worlds changed since 911 it's sad but it's true. You realize do realize that there was similar legislation to the Patriot Act enacted during ww1 and ww2, such as the sedition act of 1917 which was later repealed in `1921. Trust me the Patriot Act isn't permanent.

WWI and WWII were just as illegal (or perhaps, subversive is a better word) as the any other 20th century war, and most certainly neither of these wars was fought in (or for) the interest or defense of America (by which I mean, the Constitution of America). Moreover, these too, like this Iraq War, were just oil wars. WWI was basically a war between Anglo-Persian Petroleum + Royal Dutch Shell (i.e., the British) on side, and Standard Oil of America (who was supporting Germany) on the other, for control of oil fields in the Mideast and Russia. The need for a Second World War was set in motion in 1924 when Joseph Stalin came to power in Russia, and kicked both the U.S. and Britain out of Russia, hencing forcing the two countries to begin cooperating, and forcing them to buildup a strongman in Germany (i.e., Hitler) to run back into Russia and steal back their precious oil fields for them. As history would have it, Hitler discovered circa 1937 that he didn't neeed to fund Germany's reconstruction using bank loans from the Bank of England, he could just print up his own Reichsmarks by himself.. Overnight, he became a bigger threat than Stalin, and the rest is history..

Nothing has changed before or since 911.. this is the myth that the media would have you believe. Before 911 we had criminal terrorists like Kissinger, Brzezinski, David Rockefeller and Oliver North running around on the loose.. After 911 we still have criminal terrorists like Kissinger, Brzezinski, David Rockefeller and Oliver North running around on the loose.. I really don't see what's "changed" or what's "different"..