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The Electoral College

MamboDervish

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But it is one federal election. This is the way to fix it...
This will never work. There's no reason for all of the States to subscribe to this change if they are among the States that are already over-leveraged with representation. They'd be giving up power in D.C. Why would they do that?
 

it's just me

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The EC isn’t what makes us a Republic, having representatives in government does that. Removing the EC would have zero effect on our democratic republic.

Bullshit.
 

Peter

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Because we have 50 different States.

Why does that matter?
All you will be doing is getting rid of the possibility of the winner of a contest being declared by unelected officials who nobody knows rather than by the vote count.
 

Peter

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Almost no European nation has the same kind of governmental system as the U.S. Most are parliamentary democracies.

Again why does this matter to the results of a vote?
Why do people bother voting if they know the end result can just be declared null and void and some old geezers just decide the state is going to vote for the guy they like?
 

Peter

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The electoral college offers checks and balances and allows all people, from all states, to have some national input. If we got rid of the electoral college, and went by popular vote, California, Texas, New York and a few other populous states can form an alliance and take over the country, simply based on their population. Once in power they can make it possible to stay there forever by changing the rules, like the Democrats do. The rest of the states can be used for slave labor and for dumping their waste.

The electoral college prevents the large populous from hustling away the rights of the rest. The hustle is a more of a socialist wet dream, but it is a nightmare for a democracy. The electoral college allows all people from all states to have a say which is the hall mark for a national democracy. Voting is less important than having direct input. The electoral college allows for more regional input and more possible good ideas. Cheaters, bankrupt of good ideas, will try to change the rules, so cheating is made easier.

In reality that is not how it works.

Places will still vote for whoever they want to for them and if the Republicans can't get enough national support to win they don't deserve to be in power.
 

it's just me

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What problems do you think we have by elections being decided by pure vote numbers?

The problems the Constitutuion was written to avoid.
 

OrphanSlug

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THOUGHTS?



At best it is a misleading take on this.

“If you elect the wrong person, they can fix that shit” (quote from the clip) is not entirely accurate. While it is plausible for the EC to ignore the voter in a given state it is not very likely to happen and there could be repercussions for those that ignore their pledge, which is based on the vote from a given state. Your individual vote is not a practice vote or whatever else. “After we do our pretend voting” is also misleading, that is counted and is in several cases disputed (hence all the nonsense with the Cyber Ninjas going into AZ and coming up with a new outcome entirely to the demands of those that funded them.)

The EC comes up every vote for President to illustrate the pros and cons, and ultimately the whole thing devolves.

But there are a few truths worth noting. Just the existence of the EC does not make us a Republic, the framers specifically went with the EC to deal with conditions they thought would be influencers the further they went. Namely larger states rendering lesser populated states as not very important, and while the framers considered “uninformed voters” the concept originally assumed more often than not the EC would result in a tie forcing the House to solve the matter.

Our issues with the EC today is it virtually eliminates any possibility of a third party, and the further we go we run into conditions where the EC ends up out of alignment with the popular vote just because of states like California, Texas, Florida, New York and Pennsylvania (in that order.) Now that we have had this happen enough in the modern era it becomes a bit of a quagmire to say that particular President represents the will of the people.

I guess we could talk about tyranny of the majority / tyranny of the minority but overall the biggest issue I see is the impossibility of a strong force winning over Republicans and Democrats at the same time, entirely against the wishes of the framers we ended up with a duopoly.

And it continues to polarize in turn plague and rip the nation apart in a haze of political extremism and foolishness.

I would argue that the majority of this nation, who refuses to claim Democrat or Republican membership, is never really represented.
 

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Peter

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Do some research for yourself. I'm surprised you dont know, I learned this stuff in high school.

This may shock you but US constitutional law and rules aren't well covered in UK schools.
In fact, I don't remember them ever being mentioned as the UK has quite a lot of history to talk about.
 

it's just me

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This may shock you but US constitutional law and rules aren't well covered in UK schools.
In fact, I don't remember them ever being mentioned as the UK has quite a lot of history to talk about.

Then why are you here trying to debate it?

For five years I've had people who know nothing about Christianity arguing with me about it, and I'm done. If you dont know enough about your own side to make your own points, then you need to bone up on it. And that goes for Constitutional law, too.
 

MamboDervish

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Why does that matter?
It matters because doing away with it requires complicity with a Congress that, in aggregate, has no incentive to do away with it.
All you will be doing is getting rid of the possibility of the winner of a contest being declared by unelected officials who nobody knows rather than by the vote count.
See above.
 

Peter

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Then why are you here trying to debate it?

For five years I've had people who know nothing about Christianity arguing with me about it, and I'm done. If you dont know enough about your own side to make your own points, then you need to bone up on it. And that goes for Constitutional law, too.

I asked "Why is it so bad to just use the vote and dump the EC" and you replied that our system had problems and I asked you to clarify what those are.

I didn't make an argument, you did.
 

it's just me

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I asked "Why is it so bad to just use the vote and dump the EC" and you replied that our system had problems and I asked you to clarify what those are.

I didn't make an argument, you did.

It's a long story. Why don't you try typing it onto a search engine?
 

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it's just me

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So you don’t know why you are arguing for the current system? Lol
Yes, I do know why, but I am not going to waste time trying to explain it to the dullards on this site.
 

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Why is the idea of dumping the electoral college and just having the winner declared by whoever gets the most votes a bad thing?

It works in Europe just fine.
It doesn't work in Europe, because the European people don't elect the leader of the EU. Which would be the equivalent to the President of the US. You keep forgetting that each State is equivalent to a nation in Europe. Our State Governors are equivalent to the leaders of each nation in Europe, and they are elected by popular vote.

The President of the EU is not elected by the people, any more than the President of the US.
 

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But it is one federal election. This is the way to fix it...
That also violates Article I, Section 10, Clause 2 of the US Constitution.
No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.
{emphasis added}

Since Congress never gave their approval, any attempt to implement a national popular vote by any State will be held unconstitutional.
 

rahl

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Yes, I do know why, but I am not going to waste time trying to explain it to the dullards on this site.
well, this clearly shows you don't know why you are arguing for the current system. You could change this perception by actually explaining why you support it.
 

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well, this clearly shows you don't know why you are arguing for the current system. You could change this perception by actually explaining why you support it.

It clearly shows that I am tired of beating this horse to death. This information is available everywhere, I dont know why you dont know this.

Number one, getting rid of the EC requires a Constitutional Amendment, you can't just wish it away. It may interest you to know that one of the fears the founding fathers had was that a foreign power might interfere with the election, which is what Democrats have been whining about for 20 years.

Worst of all, having the Feds (instead of the states) regulating the election is so Hitlerian I'm surprised that the party of calling everybody else "Hitler" wants to do it.

 
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