The Eastern Origins of Western Civilisation

[thinkforyoursel]

This is very simple ....China has over 3000 years of solid history ...the US for example have a few hundred years. And most of American history is slavery, Jim crow and racism ....why is China's very developed society a mystery?

Forget the history books ....take a look at how we operate in America today. George Bush is one of the worst president's ...right? Yet America shamelessly build up a library system and fund it to in time re-write bush legacy.

Their strategy is simply ...wait until those who are around today ...and know the facts ...all die. Then when there's no witness left ....the paid pions alive will shape his history.

Does anybody think this is a new strategy??? The American history most American learn ... ...have been scrubbed and scrubbed ...and scrubbed. And it is impossible to get an American to look outside this bubble because .....they want to believe it. It serves them well ..and they want to believe it.

I'll give you a classic example of this self delusion. Lance Armstrong won bike race after bike race ...and when the evidence was coming forward of drug use ...Americans vilify the French. They wanted to believe this guy was that good...dam the black smoke swirling around him. And even now after Armstrong admit he was doping ...what do Americans say? Err ...ahh....well ...everybody in the race was also on dope ...so it evens out. :roll:



Of all these inventors and inventions in the past. Just imagine 100 years ago ...a black, a Chinese, Indian, or a woman etc.. in America stumbled on some great scientific discovery.
Does anybody actually think the white males are going to stand around and watch this individual get lionized in history for their discovery?



I said it over and over again ...the Chinese are intellectually superior partly because of this long entrenched history their society is built on.
This is what heroes like Mao Zedong understood and fought to protect.

 

[code1211]

:shrug: I wouldn't ever turn down the geopolitical argument. That being said, it's a bit of a correlative, rather than causal, relationship. There was no reason (trade route wise) for London to rule 1/3 of the globe; but because she did, London became a major trade and financial hub.

I think the British East India Company played a large role in that. By projecting themselves as investors into the major trading routes, they were in effect putting the British Empire at those positions.

In the case of the British Empire, they were at the crossroads, so to say in Asia, the Americas, Africa, the Middle East, India and, of course, London. London being the seat of the major sea power of the day orchestrating the worldwide association.

 

[code1211]

this is very simple ....china has over 3000 years of solid history ...the us for example have a few hundred years. And most of american history is slavery, jim crow and racism ....why is china's very developed society a mystery?

Forget the history books ....take a look at how we operate in america today. George bush is one of the worst president's ...right? Yet america shamelessly build up a library system and fund it to in time re-write bush legacy.

Their strategy is simply ...wait until those who are around today ...and know the facts ...all die. Then when there's no witness left ....the paid pions alive will shape his history.

Does anybody think this is a new strategy??? The american history most american learn ... ...have been scrubbed and scrubbed ...and scrubbed. And it is impossible to get an american to look outside this bubble because .....they want to believe it. It serves them well ..and they want to believe it.

I'll give you a classic example of this self delusion. Lance armstrong won bike race after bike race ...and when the evidence was coming forward of drug use ...americans vilify the french. They wanted to believe this guy was that good...dam the black smoke swirling around him. And even now after armstrong admit he was doping ...what do americans say? Err ...ahh....well ...everybody in the race was also on dope ...so it evens out. :roll:



Of all these inventors and inventions in the past. Just imagine 100 years ago ...a black, a chinese, indian, or a woman etc.. In america stumbled on some great scientific discovery.
Does anybody actually think the white males are going to stand around and watch this individual get lionized in history for their discovery?



I said it over and over again ...the chinese are intellectually superior partly because of this long entrenched history their society is built on.
This is what heroes like mao zedong understood and fought to protect.

wow!.....

 

[ecofarm]

...the chinese are intellectually superior...
This is what heroes like Mao Zedong understood and fought to protect.

hahaha

 

[cpwill]

I think the British East India Company played a large role in that. By projecting themselves as investors into the major trading routes, they were in effect putting the British Empire at those positions.

In the case of the British Empire, they were at the crossroads, so to say in Asia, the Americas, Africa, the Middle East, India and, of course, London. London being the seat of the major sea power of the day orchestrating the worldwide association.

The British Empire seized some of the crossroads of the world (the Suez, for example), but London is an even less natural crossroads position than Sri Lanka. Control of Geographically advantageous positions was a result, not a cause.

 

[Medusa]

This is very simple ....China has over 3000 years of solid history ...the US for example have a few hundred years. And most of American history is slavery, Jim crow and racism ....why is China's very developed society a mystery?

Forget the history books ....take a look at how we operate in America today. George Bush is one of the worst president's ...right? Yet America shamelessly build up a library system and fund it to in time re-write bush legacy.

Their strategy is simply ...wait until those who are around today ...and know the facts ...all die. Then when there's no witness left ....the paid pions alive will shape his history.

Does anybody think this is a new strategy??? The American history most American learn ... ...have been scrubbed and scrubbed ...and scrubbed. And it is impossible to get an American to look outside this bubble because .....they want to believe it. It serves them well ..and they want to believe it.

I'll give you a classic example of this self delusion. Lance Armstrong won bike race after bike race ...and when the evidence was coming forward of drug use ...Americans vilify the French. They wanted to believe this guy was that good...dam the black smoke swirling around him. And even now after Armstrong admit he was doping ...what do Americans say? Err ...ahh....well ...everybody in the race was also on dope ...so it evens out. :roll:



Of all these inventors and inventions in the past. Just imagine 100 years ago ...a black, a Chinese, Indian, or a woman etc.. in America stumbled on some great scientific discovery.
Does anybody actually think the white males are going to stand around and watch this individual get lionized in history for their discovery?



I said it over and over again ...the Chinese are intellectually superior partly because of this long entrenched history their society is built on.
This is what heroes like Mao Zedong understood and fought to protect.

he is like devil's advocate

 

[code1211]

The British Empire seized some of the crossroads of the world (the Suez, for example), but London is an even less natural crossroads position than Sri Lanka. Control of Geographically advantageous positions was a result, not a cause.

London became the center of the world's commerce when the British Empire was preeminent. The Pound Sterling was the coin of the realm for the entire world as the Dollar is now. That is why New York is now the center of the financial world. That why London was that in the past. There are those in the world today and indeed in this country today, who are trying to shift that center once again away from the USA.

Some don't even understand that this is their agenda's end point.

Whether the chicken or the egg came first in the British Empire's control of the choke points of trade in their day, they controlled them and that is what acted as the foundation of their empire.

 

[Rainman05]

This is very simple ....China has over 3000 years of solid history ...the US for example have a few hundred years. And most of American history is slavery, Jim crow and racism ....why is China's very developed society a mystery?

Forget the history books ....take a look at how we operate in America today. George Bush is one of the worst president's ...right? Yet America shamelessly build up a library system and fund it to in time re-write bush legacy.

Their strategy is simply ...wait until those who are around today ...and know the facts ...all die. Then when there's no witness left ....the paid pions alive will shape his history.

Does anybody think this is a new strategy??? The American history most American learn ... ...have been scrubbed and scrubbed ...and scrubbed. And it is impossible to get an American to look outside this bubble because .....they want to believe it. It serves them well ..and they want to believe it.

I'll give you a classic example of this self delusion. Lance Armstrong won bike race after bike race ...and when the evidence was coming forward of drug use ...Americans vilify the French. They wanted to believe this guy was that good...dam the black smoke swirling around him. And even now after Armstrong admit he was doping ...what do Americans say? Err ...ahh....well ...everybody in the race was also on dope ...so it evens out. :roll:



Of all these inventors and inventions in the past. Just imagine 100 years ago ...a black, a Chinese, Indian, or a woman etc.. in America stumbled on some great scientific discovery.
Does anybody actually think the white males are going to stand around and watch this individual get lionized in history for their discovery?



I said it over and over again ...the Chinese are intellectually superior partly because of this long entrenched history their society is built on.
This is what heroes like Mao Zedong understood and fought to protect.

You're a bit delusional aren't ya?

Do stop thinking for yourself because that is clearly a failed enterprise.

 

[ChrisL]

This is very simple ....China has over 3000 years of solid history ...the US for example have a few hundred years. And most of American history is slavery, Jim crow and racism ....why is China's very developed society a mystery?

Forget the history books ....take a look at how we operate in America today. George Bush is one of the worst president's ...right? Yet America shamelessly build up a library system and fund it to in time re-write bush legacy.

Their strategy is simply ...wait until those who are around today ...and know the facts ...all die. Then when there's no witness left ....the paid pions alive will shape his history.

Does anybody think this is a new strategy??? The American history most American learn ... ...have been scrubbed and scrubbed ...and scrubbed. And it is impossible to get an American to look outside this bubble because .....they want to believe it. It serves them well ..and they want to believe it.

I'll give you a classic example of this self delusion. Lance Armstrong won bike race after bike race ...and when the evidence was coming forward of drug use ...Americans vilify the French. They wanted to believe this guy was that good...dam the black smoke swirling around him. And even now after Armstrong admit he was doping ...what do Americans say? Err ...ahh....well ...everybody in the race was also on dope ...so it evens out. :roll:



Of all these inventors and inventions in the past. Just imagine 100 years ago ...a black, a Chinese, Indian, or a woman etc.. in America stumbled on some great scientific discovery.
Does anybody actually think the white males are going to stand around and watch this individual get lionized in history for their discovery?



I said it over and over again ...the Chinese are intellectually superior partly because of this long entrenched history their society is built on.
This is what heroes like Mao Zedong understood and fought to protect.

This sounds like the ramblings of a mental patient.

 

[cpwill]

This sounds like the ramblings of a mental patient.

Actually, sadly, this is the kind of logic you get a lot in the less-educated areas of the world. It's very appealing to certain demographics.

 

[Captain Adverse]

You're a bit delusional aren't ya?

Do stop thinking for yourself because that is clearly a failed enterprise.

This sounds like the ramblings of a mental patient.

Actually, sadly, this is the kind of logic you get a lot in the less-educated areas of the world. It's very appealing to certain demographics.

I'm just a bit surprised he didn't trot out the old saw about IQ scores and chinese intelligence superiority. LOL

 

[Medusa]

Actually, sadly, this is the kind of logic you get a lot in the less-educated areas of the world. It's very appealing to certain demographics.

china ?

:lol:

l dont have to remind you of this ancient culture,baby :mrgreen:

 

[ChrisL]

china ?

:lol:

l dont have to remind you of this ancient culture,baby :mrgreen:

Yes, their people have no rights, work for slave wages and are dirt poor. Free speech is censored, the people are isolated from the rest of the world.

According to Professor Yu Jianrong, official statistics show the number of recorded incidents of mass unrest are "boiling ... to the point of explosion". They have risen from 8,709 in 1993 to more than 90,000 in each of 2007 through 2009. Reasons cited include an aggrieved class of dispossessed migrants and unemployed workers, a deep loss of faith in the system among many Chinese and a weakening in the traditional means of state control.[1]

Professor Hu Xingdou of the Beijing University of Technology said corruption, state monopolies, the yawning wealth gap and the rising cost of housing, education and medical care all contribute significantly to unrest. He said land seizures and the widening wealth gap were the two top factors: Since the beginning of Deng Xiaoping's reforms in 1979, the disparity between the urban and rural populations has risen from 2.56:1 in 1978 to 3.33:1 in 2009. Urban income in 1978 was 343 yuan whilst rural income stood at 134 yuan; in 2009, the corresponding figures were 17,175 yuan and 5,153 yuan respectively. Despite the overall increase in urban income, unemployment, unpaid wages and police misconduct are sources of grievances.[1]

Yes China. A great place. :roll:

 

[cpwill]

china ?

Them too. But all over Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. Wherever you find a partially or ill-educated populace overlapping with nationalism and a need for self-reinforcing narratives, you get widespread acceptance of conspiracy theories.

In Turkey, for example, a majority of respondents refuse to believe that 9/11 was committed by Arabs.

 

[jag2594]

This is very simple ....China has over 3000 years of solid history ...the US for example have a few hundred years. And most of American history is slavery, Jim crow and racism ....why is China's very developed society a mystery?

Forget the history books ....take a look at how we operate in America today. George Bush is one of the worst president's ...right? Yet America shamelessly build up a library system and fund it to in time re-write bush legacy.

Their strategy is simply ...wait until those who are around today ...and know the facts ...all die. Then when there's no witness left ....the paid pions alive will shape his history.

Does anybody think this is a new strategy??? The American history most American learn ... ...have been scrubbed and scrubbed ...and scrubbed. And it is impossible to get an American to look outside this bubble because .....they want to believe it. It serves them well ..and they want to believe it.

I'll give you a classic example of this self delusion. Lance Armstrong won bike race after bike race ...and when the evidence was coming forward of drug use ...Americans vilify the French. They wanted to believe this guy was that good...dam the black smoke swirling around him. And even now after Armstrong admit he was doping ...what do Americans say? Err ...ahh....well ...everybody in the race was also on dope ...so it evens out. :roll:



Of all these inventors and inventions in the past. Just imagine 100 years ago ...a black, a Chinese, Indian, or a woman etc.. in America stumbled on some great scientific discovery.
Does anybody actually think the white males are going to stand around and watch this individual get lionized in history for their discovery?



I said it over and over again ...the Chinese are intellectually superior partly because of this long entrenched history their society is built on.
This is what heroes like Mao Zedong understood and fought to protect.

I agree,

I think that the Taoist dialectical tradition (Dialectical monism) of china has given them an edge over the western civilization. Mao understood the Marxist ideology of dialectic materialism as a way to operate without czars, bureaucrats and business leaders. That could be adjust to correlate with the oriental tradition.

 

[Medusa]

Them too. But all over Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. Wherever you find a partially or ill-educated populace overlapping with nationalism and a need for self-reinforcing narratives, you get widespread acceptance of conspiracy theories.

In Turkey, for example, a majority of respondents refuse to believe that 9/11 was committed by Arabs.

poor turks

they will never obey teh imperialism,

but americans are known to be the most educatued people

it is never said they are ignorant

:lol:

although many of them need a world map :mrgreen:

 

[Canell]

Cut it out, my dear gorgon.
You bear a western name, that should tell you something. Or are you going to tell me it's a Turkish name?
Yes, Western culture was born in ancient Greece. But then, geographical and cultural boundaries are not one and the same.

 

[Rainman05]

Yes, their people have no rights, work for slave wages and are dirt poor. Free speech is censored, the people are isolated from the rest of the world.



Yes China. A great place. :roll:

Well to be fair, there is a region in China that is more liberalized (in the sense that they have more freedom and liberty). this is because these special economic zones, which are mostly located on the east coast of China, are the ones who were the most open to foreign influence and investment. It's through these regions that china is becoming "westernized"(as much as you can westernize a communist totalitarian state), providing great benefit to the people living there. So these provinces in China get "special treatment" in terms of civic legislation and taxation than the rest of china. it is also in these regions that the middle class of China is expanding. The economic powerhouse of China is in these areas.

However, this has spawned numerous civic problems and health issues. Cancer is becoming the deadliest killer in China. If China would be interested in the life of its people, they would be the #1 investor in cancer research, but they're not, the UK is. Numerous other health problems come with that. At the height of western industrialization in the west, we were never even close to what Chinesse industrialization has produced in terms of health risks. That's because sooner or later, environmental and health concerns triumphed and although the cost of doing business went up, population well-being went up too. And that's what counts. the other social issue is that people, who become aware of their rights and of the life in the west, because they are part of the new middle class and can afford to visit other countries, are disgruntled and unsatisfied with the way China does politics and social reforms. So they are starting to get feisty. they are starting to make demands, to be treated as human beings not as dogs or cattle, and that's a problem for Chinesse politicians.

It is this paradigm that many who say that China will flop are basing their arguments. that and the fact that communism always collapses. Then again, China today is almost nothing like the maoist socialist republic of 50 years ago. The policy changes are dramatic.

The truth is that no matter how much people like Medusa and jag2594 complain and try and villanize white people and the west, the truth is undeniable. there is just 1 very limited venue of approach to having a successful, rich, prominent, technological advanced society that respects human rights and works for the betterment of all, and that is the western way. Sure, it's not perfect. sure there are multiple ways of approaching western style society, but it's the only one that works. How do I know that it's the only one that works? reality. I look around and there is no other model that works.

 

[Medusa]

Cut it out, my dear gorgon.
You bear a western name, that should tell you something. Or are you going to tell me it's a Turkish name?
Yes, Western culture was born in ancient Greece. But then, geographical and cultural boundaries are not one and the same.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/history/154017-chinese-pyramids.html

it is as western as me

 

[Canell]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/history/154017-chinese-pyramids.html

it is as western as me

What do pyramids have to do with Western civilization? Chinese, Egyptian, Maya, whatever?

I wonder what are you trying to prove?

 

[ChrisL]

Well to be fair, there is a region in China that is more liberalized (in the sense that they have more freedom and liberty). this is because these special economic zones, which are mostly located on the east coast of China, are the ones who were the most open to foreign influence and investment. It's through these regions that china is becoming "westernized"(as much as you can westernize a communist totalitarian state), providing great benefit to the people living there. So these provinces in China get "special treatment" in terms of civic legislation and taxation than the rest of china. it is also in these regions that the middle class of China is expanding. The economic powerhouse of China is in these areas.

However, this has spawned numerous civic problems and health issues. Cancer is becoming the deadliest killer in China. If China would be interested in the life of its people, they would be the #1 investor in cancer research, but they're not, the UK is. Numerous other health problems come with that. At the height of western industrialization in the west, we were never even close to what Chinesse industrialization has produced in terms of health risks. That's because sooner or later, environmental and health concerns triumphed and although the cost of doing business went up, population well-being went up too. And that's what counts. the other social issue is that people, who become aware of their rights and of the life in the west, because they are part of the new middle class and can afford to visit other countries, are disgruntled and unsatisfied with the way China does politics and social reforms. So they are starting to get feisty. they are starting to make demands, to be treated as human beings not as dogs or cattle, and that's a problem for Chinesse politicians.

It is this paradigm that many who say that China will flop are basing their arguments. that and the fact that communism always collapses. Then again, China today is almost nothing like the maoist socialist republic of 50 years ago. The policy changes are dramatic.

The truth is that no matter how much people like Medusa and jag2594 complain and try and villanize white people and the west, the truth is undeniable. there is just 1 very limited venue of approach to having a successful, rich, prominent, technological advanced society that respects human rights and works for the betterment of all, and that is the western way. Sure, it's not perfect. sure there are multiple ways of approaching western style society, but it's the only one that works. How do I know that it's the only one that works? reality. I look around and there is no other model that works.

Thoughtful post. I definitely think that exposure to other countries and a good education is the key. I'm sure that you're correct about China's middle/upper class, but I'm under the impression that most of their success is probably due to the labor of the poor who get nearly nothing in return, so I don't know how much those people would fight for things like "fair wages" or any kinds of regulations within their factories, etc.

 

[cpwill]

poor turks

they will never obey teh imperialism,

Sure they will. And they will be imperialistic themselves, at times, as they are preparing to do now.

but americans are known to be the most educatued people

Well, no. But we do benefit from a society that has been through the Enlightenment.

 

[Andalublue]

the westerner always has to claim their civilisation have their roots in greek culture .

Which westerners are you talking about? I don't, and no one I know says that our civilisation has most of its roots in Greek culture. They are just one influence. The idea that Greece was the cradle of modern western society is an old one, and one that has been amended and altered a lot over the past century. Your argument sounds a lot like a straw man to me. Can you quote some recent Western authority that claims we owe it all to the Greeks?

 

[Medusa]

Which westerners are you talking about? I don't, and no one I know says that our civilisation has most of its roots in Greek culture. They are just one influence. The idea that Greece was the cradle of modern western society is an old one, and one that has been amended and altered a lot over the past century. Your argument sounds a lot like a straw man to me. Can you quote some recent Western authority that claims we owe it all to the Greeks?

you are exceptional lefty ,anda:2razz:

many europeans claim they have their roots in greek culture ,they are proud of greek culture because it is the basis of all others.




nowadays they want to kick greece out of europe ,you cant hear them claim they owe it to greeks:lol:

 

[Medusa]

What do pyramids have to do with Western civilization? Chinese, Egyptian, Maya, whatever?

I wonder what are you trying to prove?

it has nothing to do with the west ,of course

:lamo