The Eastern Origins of Western Civilisation

[Medusa]

Yeah, I'm not sure I get the point either. I mean, I understand the propositions in the OP. They seem to be without context, or, more seriously, coherence.

However, I would like to address one point made in the OP, which seems to be something to the effect that it's disingenuous to claim that western culture has its roots in ancient Greece. I must seriously ask: WTF? The outstanding characteristics of western culture are undeniably founded in classical Greek culture. The tendency toward competition and the emphasis on the individual, the general tendency towards waging war, the notion of state-owned justice, the overweening emphasis on reason, etc. etc. are all owed to the Greeks. The Romans largely adopted Greek culture and myth, and in turn bequeathed that culture to Europe. The Roman legal system, for example, was largely based on that of Athens, and Roman laws ruled the dark ages. It wasn't until Alcuin of York reformed legal practice that anyone in Europe had any different ideas at all. The Church fathers preserved ancient Greek philosophy in the theology of Christianity. I could go on and on about this. Anyone who claims that western culture is not based in that of ancient Greece has a very large burden of proof to meet.

the westerner always has to claim their civilisation have their roots in greek culture .why ? because they couldnt develop their own civilisation for hundreds of years in the history .whats more the dark middle age period dominated by abusive catholic church proves why they had to exploit teh rest of the world in order not to die of hunger.


where did l say the opposite ?

is there any other ancient civilisation except greek roman ?

no

so they need some roots!

 

[Medusa]

This and three or more subsequent posts are in the same quandry as i.

That is why I asked you to clearly state the point you are trying to make.

no you can never see me insult the christianity . you must have missed many of my posts in religion forum

İ usually insult bigots ,not religions or believers

 

[Medusa]

Sure - just like the MB does not represent "real" Islam. I am not talking about theory, I am simply pointing out reality.

did l ever say islamic countries treated women like human ?

l never make moronic statements about religions

 

[ttwtt78640]

did l ever say islamic countries treated women like human ?

l never make moronic statements about religions

A quote from your OP to refresh your, apparently limitted, memory:

whats more the dark middle age period dominated by abusive catholic church proves why they had to exploit teh rest of the world in order not to die of hunger.

 

[Medusa]

Actually, I did say that western culture is superior to cultures based on fundamentalist Islam. Not in this thread, but I remember saying it in some other thread. The OP doesn't change my mind one iota, though. I'm not sure what her point is either or what she actually wants to discuss. All cultures go through dark periods. At this point in history, regardless of how we got to this point, I still maintain that western culture is superior to islamic culture.

your culture has been supporting MUSLİM BROTHERS..


lets go on


what about a large number of drug addicts ?

the fake democracy which isnt applied to the other countries ?



teen pregnancy?

evangelic bigots who want to ban abortion ?

imperialism ?

individualism which creates selfish people ?

 

[Medusa]

A quote from your OP to refresh your, apparently limitted, memory:

catholic church didnt represent teh real christianity

okay now ?

my comment is not about religion but its abusive believers and the church which controlled people'S lives in the middle ages

 

[Medusa]

I was referring to this thread with my statement. Basically all culture goes back to Africa, and as humans spread around the globe, they took remnants of their ancient past with them, as well as components of other regions along the way. I just couldn't figure out what the point of the OP was, besides maybe an attempt to start a mudslinging contest, which is not only unproductive, but silly as well.

Actually, I did say that western culture is superior to cultures based on fundamentalist Islam. Not in this thread, but I remember saying it in some other thread. The OP doesn't change my mind one iota, though. I'm not sure what her point is either or what she actually wants to discuss. All cultures go through dark periods. At this point in history, regardless of how we got to this point, I still maintain that western culture is superior to islamic culture.

so you can " like " any post which insults teh other cultures ,lizzie

then claim nobody says the west is superior



arcana's post contradicts your post l quoted

 

[lizzie]

[/B]
so you can " like " any post which insults teh other cultures ,lizzie

then claim nobody says the west is superior



arcana's post contradicts your post l quoted

Are you assuming to know why I liked that post? And even if you are not, none of us owe any explanations to anyone here.

Btw- I don't recall your answering my question as to what you actually wanted to discuss with the op.

 

[Medusa]

Are you assuming to know why I liked that post? And even if you are not, none of us owe any explanations to anyone here.

of course

but at least dont claim nobody can think teh west is superior

or at least dont like it if you dont think taht way

there is a contradiction

 

[lizzie]

of course

but at least dont claim nobody can think teh west is superior

or at least dont like it if you dont think taht way

there is a contradiction

I will ask again- what is the discussion you are wanting to have with your thread?

 

[Arcana XV]

your culture has been supporting MUSLİM BROTHERS..

Are you too stupid to differentiate between government foreign policy and culture?

lets go on

I can't wait. :roll:

what about a large number of drug addicts ?

What about it? What does that have to do with basic western values? Other than some idiots having the freedom to throw their lives down the toilet?

the fake democracy which isnt applied to the other countries ?

Say what? Name one western country that doesn't practice one form or another of democracy.

teen pregnancy?

At least we don't kill them in the name of some twisted perception of honor.

evangelic bigots who want to ban abortion ?

WTF is wrong with you? Do you know anything about the concept of free speech? That is one of our basic values. They have as much right as I do to express their views on the subject.

imperialism ?

Que?

individualism which creates selfish people ?

What can I tell you? Freedom is a ****ing bitch and I love her.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

your culture has been supporting MUSLİM BROTHERS..


lets go on


what about a large number of drug addicts ?

the fake democracy which isnt applied to the other countries ?



teen pregnancy?

evangelic bigots who want to ban abortion ?

imperialism ?

individualism which creates selfish people ?

Education, women's sufferage, cutting-edge health care, the freedom to be anything you've got the skill and know-how to be, driver's licenses, the right so speak your mind, the right to vote, the right to worship (or not) whatever I want, not to mention the geniuses that invented computers, the Internet, and need i go on?

 

[Arcana XV]

Education, women's sufferage, cutting-edge health care, the freedom to be anything you've got the skill and know-how to be, driver's licenses, the right so speak your mind, the right to vote, the right to worship (or not) whatever I want, not to mention the geniuses that invented computers, the Internet, and need i go on?

None of that matters. We're imperialist scum in bed with some muslim brothers. That's our culture in a nutshell, according to Medusa's logic.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

None of that matters. We're imperialist scum in bed with some muslim brothers. That's our culture in a nutshell, according to Medusa's logic.

Imperialistic pornographic adulterous drug-addicted scum.

What good is freedom if you use it the wrong way, right?

 

[Arcana XV]

Imperialistic pornographic adulterous drug-addicted scum.

What good is freedom if you use it the wrong way, right?

Hush. I'm trying to educate my teen daughter on the merits of getting high and getting knocked up.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Hush. I'm trying to educate my teen daughter on the merits of getting high and getting knocked up.

Get her smoking Turkish cigarettes, that's like half the battle right there.

 

[Red_Dave]

your culture has been supporting MUSLİM BROTHERS..

Citation needed

 

[Medusa]

None of that matters. We're imperialist scum in bed with some muslim brothers. That's our culture in a nutshell, according to Medusa's logic.

are you sure ?

l just wanted to make you aware that no culture can be superior

 

[Medusa]

Education, women's sufferage, cutting-edge health care, the freedom to be anything you've got the skill and know-how to be, driver's licenses, the right so speak your mind, the right to vote, the right to worship (or not) whatever I want, not to mention the geniuses that invented computers, the Internet, and need i go on?

l know

but does it change any negative result l mentioned in my post ?

every culture has bad and good sides :shrug:

 

[Medusa]

None of that matters. We're imperialist scum in bed with some muslim brothers. That's our culture in a nutshell, according to Medusa's logic.

if not why does your democrat government support these terrorists who have inferior culture ?

only imperialism may be in bed with fake muslims....

 

[Arcana XV]

[/B]


are you sure ?

l just wanted to make you aware that no culture can be superior

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

l know

but does it change any negative result l mentioned in my post ?

every culture has bad and good sides :shrug:

I'll take a culture where you're free to destroy your own life over a culture where you're expected to destroy someone else's life any day of the week.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Western civilisation owes much to ancient African migrants originally from Ethiopia, who brought civilisation to Europe across the Mediterranean Sea. People who belong to haplogroup E1b1b1 are known to have originated in West Africa and as they migrated northwards, the two great ancient civilisations were established in Egypt and Greece. Two genetic studies so far (Hajjej et al. 2005; Arnaiz-Villena et al. 2001) confirmed the ancient Greeks' African roots and the subgroups E-V13 and E-M78, which can be found with high frequencies (35.1%-38.6%) in modern-day Greece (King et al. 2008), are closely related to the Ethiopian subgroups E-V6 and E-V92.

South Tunisian HLA gene profile has studied for the first time. HLA-A, -B, -DRB1 and -DQB1 allele frequencies of Ghannouch have been compared with those of neighboring populations, other Mediterraneans and Sub-Saharans. Their relatedness has been tested by genetic distances, Neighbor-Joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. Our HLA data show that both southern from Ghannouch and northern Tunisians are of a Berber substratum in spite of the successive incursions (particularly, the 7th-8th century A.D. Arab invasion) occurred in Tunisia. It is also the case of other North Africans and Iberians. This present study confirms the relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharan populations. This suggests that there was an admixture between the Greeks and Sub-Saharans probably during Pharaonic period or after natural catastrophes (dryness) occurred in Sahara.
HLA genes in Southern Tunisians (Gha... [Eur J Med Genet. 2006 Jan-Feb] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Rainman05]

the westerner always has to claim their civilisation have their roots in greek culture .why ? because they couldnt develop their own civilisation for hundreds of years in the history .whats more the dark middle age period dominated by abusive catholic church proves why they had to exploit teh rest of the world in order not to die of hunger.

False. So false.

their geographic discoveries had to start because they needed to find other ways to reach the famous silk and spice routes which were being controlled by ottomans.

Not really. You need to frame it in a time period. The silk route passed through many countries and the western country that did the most to reinvent and protect the silk route were the Timurids and the Byzantine Empire.

then they got rich and rich through the colonization of those eastern nations that built the earliest civilisations which were the basis of all other cultures in the world.
Western society got rich because of industrialization. Most colonies set up by European powers were a drain on the economy. Some exceptions like the carribean after piracy was sorted out or Peru goldmines.

and this period created a bourgeoisie class in europe which will open to a door to teh period of renaissance and reform .


the new rich social class developed an aesthetical understanding of life which helped the rise of art in europe that will be named " renaissance "
I think you don't know what you're talking about.

they also learned the printing from the east and it led to the reform period
While it's true that the first printing press ever recorded in history was developed in China in the XIth century, it had no impact on the development of the European printing press, which developed in the 1400s in the HRE. How do I know this? Because they were 2 very different designs.
they got rid of the catholic pressure on their lives and it created another period called enlightenment

Catholicism and Christianity did a great deal of good in Europe. As opposed to how other religions (Hinduism, Shamanism, Islam) treated the people who abided by them. While it is true that it's not all sunshine and rainbow, it is due to the nature of Christianity that it gracefully retired from the forefront of politics.

first colonization ( by using the east's raw materials and natural sources needed for industrial production ) and the enlightenment period helped them start the industrial revolution through lots of other inventions they made during this period.

The industrial revolution has it's roots in England. It's seeds flew to other European countries, notably France, Spain and what was then the german states, and that allowed them to create a lot more prosperity then ever imagined. The industrial revolution changed the tone of the world. Changed what wealth actually is. And it is that wealth that permitted European powers to colonize and spread the wealth, because as I said, almost all colonies were a drain on the economy. Ships are expensive. How expensive? The fact that the Spanish Armada got destroyed ruined Spain and it never recovered as a global superpower. That's how expensive. Maintaining a happy and stable crew is expensive, especially in an era when piracy was the name of the game.

Western society has it's roots in Western civilizations. The forefathers were the Greeks and the Romans whose legacy survived in the Byzantine Empire in Eastern Europe, and in Western Europe it was brought back through Charlemagne and his dynasty who restored order. Then through many other great nations.

Your disdain for Western society is well known. But your method of exposing your clear hate of western society and white people should be more graceful, you're just embarrassing yourself.

 

[Rainman05]

Western civilisation owes much to ancient African migrants originally from Ethiopia, who brought civilisation to Europe across the Mediterranean Sea. People who belong to haplogroup E1b1b1 are known to have originated in West Africa and as they migrated northwards, the two great ancient civilisations were established in Egypt and Greece. Two genetic studies so far (Hajjej et al. 2005; Arnaiz-Villena et al. 2001) confirmed the ancient Greeks' African roots and the subgroups E-V13 and E-M78, which can be found with high frequencies (35.1%-38.6%) in modern-day Greece (King et al. 2008), are closely related to the Ethiopian subgroups E-V6 and E-V92.

No.

Western society has nothing to do with migratory paterns because, what do you know, nothing was invented back then. I think you don't comprehend what civilization means. It's not a matter of who went where, it's a matter of who said what when, what survived. We have nothing from Ethiopia. Show me the amazing Ethiopian sculptures, texts and other works that display Ethiopian civilization as part of Western civilization. You can't because there are none.

I can however show you a great deal of Greek ones.

Also, Eupedia is not an official EU site. It's held by some private people who have private agendas so I wouldn't trust what they put out because it's called eupedia. How do I know?
Well, for one, it ends in .com ; EU sites end in .eu ; Secondly, the map of the EU it has isn't updated to include Croatia.

So anything you posted as a source from it is BS.