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The Draft and the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy

js416256

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With the number of military recruits decreasing each day many say that a draft is inevitable which got me thinking, if the draft was reinstated could the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy coexist with the draft? I personally think that with such a large population of people against the war all someone would need to do to get discharged from the army would to utter the words, "I'm gay". So I think logically there couldn't be a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy if there was ever a draft.

Also I recently read an article saying there are over 41,000 gay soldiers that would join the army if the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy was ended (http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/07/072505military.htm). I, personally, am against the war and I say if someone wants to fight in the war better them than myself. Do you think that with this shortage of soldiers the ban needs to be lifted to avoid having to reinstate the draft?
 

Schweddy

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In previous times, if someone was drafted and they said they were gay - off to prison they went.

Eventually, folks will realize that the War on Terror and Iraq is and was a good thing. The diversity will become even greater amoung Muslims and Christians in the US and in other countries across the world. The screaming voices will realize that the goal has been met for them as they become older. The younger and next generations will sign up in droves again to get a free education.

The here and now voices screaming that soliders are dying for nothing will cease when they find another thing to complain hip hollar and roar about.

I like the policy as it currently stands - Don't ask, don't tell.
 

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I to agree that "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is probably the best policy........It does have one flaw though............

I am retired navy and close to a lot of active duty military and they tell me there are a lot of recruit missfits joining the navy, finding out it was not there cup of tea, going to their Commanding Officers and claiming they were gay to get and honorable discharge even though they were not gay................That is why the numbers of gay has been so inflated since "Don't Ask Don't Tell" was instituted..........
 

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Don't ask, don't tell is a joke. I was in the Air Force and I did not keep being gay from anyone. Everyone knew and no one cared. As long as I did what was expected of me while on duty, I could do what I wanted to do off duty. Most of my friends in the military even went to gay bars with me. When we would talk about me being gay during work and a higher ranking person was there, they would say that they could not listen to it and they would leave the area.
 

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It's a great policy, why would anyone want to discuss this with people at their place of employment? If you are talking with a friend, they already know, and would keep it private, as it should be. If you want to scream to the world you're gay, walk in a parade, but while at work, just keep it to yourself. I certainly wouldn't want to take a shower with girls at work, and I suspect the same would be true in a military situation. You have to respect others beliefs, and issues as well, no matter how close minded they may seem.
 

Navy Pride

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alex said:
Don't ask, don't tell is a joke. I was in the Air Force and I did not keep being gay from anyone. Everyone knew and no one cared. As long as I did what was expected of me while on duty, I could do what I wanted to do off duty. Most of my friends in the military even went to gay bars with me. When we would talk about me being gay during work and a higher ranking person was there, they would say that they could not listen to it and they would leave the area.
It made be a joke in the air force where you live in private rooms like a hotel but in the Navy aboard ship where you have 100 men berthed in and area as big as your living room its no joke............
 

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Navy Pride said:
It made be a joke in the air force where you live in private rooms like a hotel but in the Navy aboard ship where you have 100 men berthed in and area as big as your living room its no joke............
You think sex between men doesn't happen in the Navy? Get real. That is the branch that gets most of them. Almost every time I meet a gay man who was in the military and I ask which branch, he responds "Navy." The Air Force gets quite a few also, but not as many as the Navy. I was stationed at Air Force bases where Navy was also. I heard many stories about men fooling around with other men (gay and straight). Especially on ships. Don't ask, don't tell is useless.
 

js416256

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I think that other than people’s abuse of the policy to get out of the armed forces, the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy seems as though it would instill many of the gay soldiers with a sense of paranoia which ultimately would deeply impact the soldier’s life. What I mean by this is, whenever they would enter a gay bar or go out on a date they would always be fearful that somebody from their troop could see them. Soon this paranoia of being found out would affect every facet of their life ultimately forcing them to hide their homosexuality from anyone and live a repressed life. Also this paranoia could result in feelings of mistrust and alienation which would mean ties between the soldiers would worsen yielding detrimental results.

I also think that the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy could be offensive to members of the armed forces for a few reason. Many proponents of the policy say that if gay soldiers were allowed to reveal their sexuality they would be verbally and physically assaulted by their heterosexual counterparts. So really these people are saying that the straight soldiers are basically uncontrollable animals who would brutally attack any gay person. I feel as though they are literally equating these soldiers to members of the KKK who would rather blow up churches and hang thousands than accept diversity. Personally if I was a member of the armed forces I would be offended by this inaccurate portrayal. Also many supporters of the policy say that the presence of gay soldiers would lower the bonds between the soldiers and ultimately reduce the soldiers’ effectiveness. But once again what are the supporters saying about our country's soldiers? Are they really saying that these soldiers actually will become less productive with the presence of gay people? Is that really a justification? Soldiers suddenly can't do their jobs because there are gay people around them? Think of how society would be if people became less productive around the presence of homosexuals. I think that claim all together makes many soldiers sound bigoted and deluded, which I think is a false portrayal.

Also I think that the policy has the possibility to breed harassment, blackmail, assault, and modern-day witch hunts. While to some this policy sounds theoretically "fine" it can be easily abused. So even though its great for people who want to get out of the armed forces the policy can severely harm patriotic Americans who want to defend this country.
 

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Meanwhile, one of my friends' brothers was in the Army and became severely depressed. They wouldn't honourably discharge him. They even refused to get him any medical attention, instead telling him he was just weak. It took a near-fatal suicide attempt before they smelt the roses - and gave him a dishonourable discharge. :mad:
 

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Deegan said:
It's a great policy, why would anyone want to discuss this with people at their place of employment? If you are talking with a friend, they already know, and would keep it private, as it should be. If you want to scream to the world you're gay, walk in a parade, but while at work, just keep it to yourself. I certainly wouldn't want to take a shower with girls at work, and I suspect the same would be true in a military situation. You have to respect others beliefs, and issues as well, no matter how close minded they may seem.
Straight people naturally refer to their spouse / boyfriend / girlfriend, and nobody says that this is "screaming to the world that they're straight." Why should it be any different for gay people?
 

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vergiss said:
Meanwhile, one of my friends' brothers was in the Army and became severely depressed. They wouldn't honourably discharge him. They even refused to get him any medical attention, instead telling him he was just weak. It took a near-fatal suicide attempt before they smelt the roses - and gave him a dishonourable discharge. :mad:

All he had to do was go to his commanding officer and say he was gay and he would have been discharged with and honorable discharge.....No questions asked.........
 

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Naughty Nurse said:
Straight people naturally refer to their spouse / boyfriend / girlfriend, and nobody says that this is "screaming to the world that they're straight." Why should it be any different for gay people?
I know of no one that has ever screamed to the world they are straight.....I guess its different in the UK...................

Because whether you like it or not...being straight is the norm.being gay is the abnorm...........
 

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Navy Pride said:
I know of no one that has ever screamed to the world they are straight.....I guess its different in the UK...................

Because whether you like it or not...being straight is the norm.being gay is the abnorm...........
Every statement you post comes with nothing to back it up. I have yet to read a valid point written by you. Start backing up these ridiculous comments. Without it your posts mean nothing.
 

Navy Pride

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alex said:
Every statement you post comes with nothing to back it up. I have yet to read a valid point written by you. Start backing up these ridiculous comments. Without it your posts mean nothing.
I am sorry but I have no clue what your talking about...Can you explain?

Thanks:smile:
 

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Navy Pride said:
I am sorry but I have no clue what your talking about...Can you explain?

Thanks:smile:
OK. All you do is make statements. I think that you assume the meanings behind them are granted. You know the meanings behind them but we do not. Instead of posting something like "Homosexuals are the abnorm" and ending it there, write "I believe that homosexuals are the abnorm because..." Tell us why you believe the things that you do. If you can find other sources of information to help you back up your statements, list them as a source. Try using factual information more often and then conclude with your opinion. I hope this helps because I have noticed that other people have become frustrated with your posts for these reasons as well. No one is implying that your opinions are completely wrong, just that they need more to back them up and more validity.
 

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Navy Pride said:
All he had to do was go to his commanding officer and say he was gay and he would have been discharged with and honorable discharge.....No questions asked.........
It's the Australian army. They're not still stuck in the 1800s regarding gay soldiers.

By the way, you missed the point I was making by at least a mile.
 

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alex said:
OK. All you do is make statements. I think that you assume the meanings behind them are granted. You know the meanings behind them but we do not. Instead of posting something like "Homosexuals are the abnorm" and ending it there, write "I believe that homosexuals are the abnorm because..." Tell us why you believe the things that you do. If you can find other sources of information to help you back up your statements, list them as a source. Try using factual information more often and then conclude with your opinion. I hope this helps because I have noticed that other people have become frustrated with your posts for these reasons as well. No one is implying that your opinions are completely wrong, just that they need more to back them up and more validity.

OK, I believe it is a fact that someone that engages in the type sex that gays engage in is abnormal whether they be straight or gay.......I also believe that the vast majority of Americans believe the same way....

I don't believe that gays should serve openly in the military, especially the Navy where I spent 21 years........I think if that happened it would destroy morale and organizational readiness...........
 

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According to reports the number of people discharged for being Gay dropped drasticly after the begining of the Iraq war. It is still lower than befor the war. It is also reported that the Military discharged many Arabic fluent Gays at its language school. Thereby creating a real shortage of Arabic speaking iterpreters.Logic is not a military characteristic.
Though it would seem that when you need bodies, whether there Gay or straight.Is not that important.
 

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Navy Pride said:
OK, I believe it is a fact that someone that engages in the type sex that gays engage in is abnormal whether they be straight or gay.......I also believe that the vast majority of Americans believe the same way....

I don't believe that gays should serve openly in the military, especially the Navy where I spent 21 years........I think if that happened it would destroy morale and organizational readiness...........
Well, your beliefs are wrong until you can prove what the "vast majority of Americans" think. Sorry. I doubt you consider the "abnormality" of oral sex whenever your wife is helping out with the task.

How the heck would it destroy morale and organisation, exactly? Last I checked, prefering your own gender doesn't destroy all plans within a 50 foot radius, nor does it plunge your comrades into a depressive stupor.
 

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vergiss said:
It's the Australian army. They're not still stuck in the 1800s regarding gay soldiers.

By the way, you missed the point I was making by at least a mile.
And that point was?:confused:
 

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vergiss said:
Well, your beliefs are wrong until you can prove what the "vast majority of Americans" think. Sorry. I doubt you consider the "abnormality" of oral sex whenever your wife is helping out with the task.

How the heck would it destroy morale and organisation, exactly? Last I checked, prefering your own gender doesn't destroy all plans within a 50 foot radius, nor does it plunge your comrades into a depressive stupor.
I don't have to prove it.Its fact..........Why do you think states are rushing to pass amendments to ban gay marriage and are passing them by huge majorities even in liberal states like Oregon..........With all respect you don't live here, you have no clue how Americans feel about the gay liefestyle except what you hear or read in our far left liberal meida..........

I can compare gays serving aboard a navy ship to a straight man serving on a ship with all females.............It just would be to much of a temptation...............In my 21 years in the navy I saw at least 20 gay men discharged for making sexual advances against their shipmates..............What is ironic is I don't blame the gay men........They can't help themselves.........
 
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Today was our local gay pride. And guess what? Both the Navy and the Air Force had recruiting stations there.

Guess they don't think that enlisting gay men and women will lead to the downfall of civilisation!
 

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Naughty Nurse said:
Today was our local gay pride. And guess what? Both the Navy and the Air Force had recruiting stations there.

Guess they don't think that enlisting gay men and women will lead to the downfall of civilisation!

Good for you......I might work one way here.........You could put all gay people on one ship and they could have one huge orgy...........Seriously though I have talked to Brit sailors and they are not at all happy with the policy........
 

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Navy Pride said:
Good for you......I might work one way here.........You could put all gay people on one ship and they could have one huge orgy...........
And your evidence that a group of gay people couldn't work together without having sex?

You might feel, as you have stated in a previous post, that you straight men have no control over yourselves, but please don't judge me by your own low standards.
 

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Navy Pride said:
Seriously though I have talked to Brit sailors and they are not at all happy with the policy........
Well, I'm not happy with all of my employer's policies. Your point is?
 
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