The downside of soy

[clownboy]

Well, back in my 40's when I was starting to have some pre-menopausal symptoms, I started looking into alternative treatments for symptom relief, and I took a soy supplement for a few months, then I started doing my homework, and then it scared the crap out of me, and I stopped taking what wasn't working anyway. Since then, I have been reading, from time to time, articles on the effects of soy. I figure that if Japan has one of the lowest fertility rates in the world, there must be a reason.

They also have the highest instances of gastric cancer in the world.

I too thank you for posting this info. I'm not a soy eater but my Mom and Sister in law are. They both suffer from thyroid problems. I've forwarded the info to them.

 

[nota bene]

I have always loved tofu but gave it up when I heard what an oncology nurse had to say about it (because of its naturally occurring estrogen).

 

[ChrisL]

I was using those protein shakes for body builders when I was running. I don't remember if it was soy protein or what kind of protein it was, but they were absolutely disgusting. That's why I stopped drinking them. You have to drink them fast too, because they start to "settle" and after about 10 minutes they start to smell horrible. Eww, disgusting!

I drink a Carnation Instant Breakfast (chocolate flavored) every morning for breakfast. If I didn't do that, I would probably just skip breakfast altogether and fill up on coffee. I don't usually have much of an appetite for eating first thing in the morning, so it's a good substitute for me. :shrug:

 

[tobin]

Plus, almost all soy now is GMO. I read somewhere that people who ate soy long term were actually having organs in their bodies coated in a some type of synthetic material or plastic. If that isn't true the hormone issues with this plant are scary enough.

 

[lizzie]

Plus, almost all soy now is GMO. I read somewhere that people who ate soy long term were actually having organs in their bodies coated in a some type of synthetic material or plastic. If that isn't true the hormone issues with this plant are scary enough.

I seriously doubt that is even possible, but yeah, the hormone activity is something that I will avoid in my life. I have enough trouble maintaining balance as it is. :lol:And yes, from what I understand, much of it is GMO nowadays.

 

[afr0byte]

No, omnivore, I'm just lactose intolerant. I can deal with the occaisonal pizza and stuff, but if I drank milk or used whey protein long term I'd have issues.

I think I'll definitely check out the pea protein. I really hate rice protein, it tastes like ****, and this is the "neutral flavor" version. How's the pea protein taste? I want something that's relatively tasteless that I can mix into my post workout smoothies.

Thanks for the tip.

Admittedly I haven't tasted a lot of protein powders, but it's tolerable/not offensive. I believe I got it from trueprotein.com (True Nutrition | Gemma Pea Protein Isolate non-GMO (1lb)).

 

[afr0byte]

I was using those protein shakes for body builders when I was running. I don't remember if it was soy protein or what kind of protein it was, but they were absolutely disgusting. That's why I stopped drinking them. You have to drink them fast too, because they start to "settle" and after about 10 minutes they start to smell horrible. Eww, disgusting!

I drink a Carnation Instant Breakfast (chocolate flavored) every morning for breakfast. If I didn't do that, I would probably just skip breakfast altogether and fill up on coffee. I don't usually have much of an appetite for eating first thing in the morning, so it's a good substitute for me. :shrug:

Most protein powders I've tried (not too many..probably like 4 total) aren't that great tasting. Yours was probably whey, if I had to guess.

 

[clownboy]

No, omnivore, I'm just lactose intolerant. I can deal with the occaisonal pizza and stuff, but if I drank milk or used whey protein long term I'd have issues.

I think I'll definitely check out the pea protein. I really hate rice protein, it tastes like ****, and this is the "neutral flavor" version. How's the pea protein taste? I want something that's relatively tasteless that I can mix into my post workout smoothies.

Thanks for the tip.

Back in the bygone era when someone in the family couldn't handle cow we switched them up to goat's milk and cheese. That usually went down a lot better.

That brings up a question for those who are lactose intolerant - was breastfeeding a problem (ask your Mom)?

Here's the poop on goat's milk. And this is interesting and on topic:

While it is often recommended that children who have problems digesting cow's milk change to vegetable protein soy-based milk, that is not always the answer. An estimated 20%-50% of children with cow milk protein intolerance will react adversely to soy proteins. Goat milk is a natural milk that children like and can consume comfortably, even if they are sensitive to cow's milk and/or soy milk.

 

[afr0byte]

I am anti-soy as well.

Hypogonadism and erectile dysfunction asso... [Nutrition. 2011 Jul-Aug] - PubMed - NCBI

An unusual case of gynecomastia associa... [Endocr Pract. 2008 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI

As a protein supplement, it is horrible (not a complete protein).

Did something change? Last time I checked soy is a complete protein. Here's a quote from the FDA: "Soy protein products can be good substitutes for animal products because, unlike some other beans, soy offers a 'complete' protein profile. ... Soy protein products can replace animal-based foods—which also have complete proteins but tend to contain more fat, especially saturated fat—without requiring major adjustments elsewhere in the diet." (Soybean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[afr0byte]

Back in the bygone era when someone in the family couldn't handle cow we switched them up to goat's milk and cheese. That usually went down a lot better.

That brings up a question for those who are lactose intolerant - was breastfeeding a problem (ask your Mom)?

Here's the poop on goat's milk. And this is interesting and on topic:

I don't know about RabidAlpaca, but afaik most people become lactose intolerant. They're not born that way. In most mammals it's normal to stop producing lactase after weening.

 

[ChrisL]

Most protein powders I've tried (not too many..probably like 4 total) aren't that great tasting. Yours was probably whey, if I had to guess.

That sounds about right IIRC.

 

[clownboy]

Did something change? Last time I checked soy is a complete protein. Here's a quote from the FDA: "Soy protein products can be good substitutes for animal products because, unlike some other beans, soy offers a 'complete' protein profile. ... Soy protein products can replace animal-based foods—which also have complete proteins but tend to contain more fat, especially saturated fat—without requiring major adjustments elsewhere in the diet." (Soybean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Read the wiki, it says many agencies believe so, however if you read just a little beyond the part you quoted:

The gold standard for measuring protein quality, since 1990, is the Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) and by this criterion soy protein is the nutritional equivalent of meat, eggs, and casein for human growth and health. Soybean protein isolate has a biological value of 74, whole soybeans 96, soybean milk 91, and eggs 97.[18]

There are few folks eating whole beans and there is a 6% difference between eggs and soy milk.

However, there are some that disagree that the similarity is anywhere near that degree.

 

[clownboy]

I don't know about RabidAlpaca, but afaik most people become lactose intolerant. They're not born that way. In most mammals it's normal to stop producing lactase after weening.

That would suggest the following from the link I posted and that it is not really intolerance to lactose but inability to fully digest the larger casein curd of cow's milk.

The digestibility of goat milk can be attributed to its casein curd, which is both softer and smaller than that produced by bovine milk. The smaller and softer the curd, the more easily accepted by the human digestive system.

Another significant difference between cow's milk and goat milk is found in the composition and structure of fat. The average size of goat milk fat globules is about two micrometers, as compared to 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 micrometers for cow's milk. These smaller sized fat globules provide a better dispersion and a more homogenous mixture of fat in the milk, another factor in making goat milk easier to digest.

Goat milk contains more of the essential fatty acids (linoleic and arachidonic acids) and a higher proportion of short-chain and medium-chain fatty acids than cow's milk. The fat in goat milk may be more readily digested and absorbed than cow milk because lipases attack ester linkages of such fatty acids more readily than those of longer chains. And, unlike cow's milk, goat milk does not contain agglutinin; as a result, the fat globules in goat milk do not cluster, which helps facilitate digestion and absorption.

 

[afr0byte]

Read the wiki, it says many agencies believe so, however if you read just a little beyond the part you quoted:



There are few folks eating whole beans and there is a 6% difference between eggs and soy milk.

However, there are some that disagree that the similarity is anywhere near that degree.

Oh, you mean the quote that said it's the nutritional equivalent of meat/eggs/casein? Yes it's a bit lower in lutein, but certainly not enough to worry about.

 

[afr0byte]

That would suggest the following from the link I posted and that it is not really intolerance to lactose but inability to fully digest the larger casein curd of cow's milk.

Sorry, I'm not going to bother reading through an article on a chiropractic website.

 

[clownboy]

Oh, you mean the quote that said it's the nutritional equivalent of meat/eggs/casein? Yes it's a bit lower in lutein, but certainly not enough to worry about.

Not just that. Depending upon processing and preparation of the soy there is still a difference in the completeness of the amino acid chain, sometimes a large difference. Your body with not accept the incomplete chain as protein. We are simply designed to eat meat. It is the gold standard all the vegie combos we use strive to mimic.

 

[clownboy]

Sorry, I'm not going to bother reading through an article on a chiropractic website.

But you'll read and trust the wiki which has sources you're not fully aware of? Is it your position this data about goat's/cow's milk is made up?

Perhaps the national Institute for Health will convince you - they list goat's milk as an alternative for those who are lactose intolerant.

 

[afr0byte]

Not just that. Depending upon processing and preparation of the soy there is still a difference in the completeness of the amino acid chain, sometimes a large difference. Your body with not accept the incomplete chain as protein. We are simply designed to eat meat. It is the gold standard all the vegie combos we use strive to mimic.

I never denied that animal protein was more complete. That said, one can get all of the amino acids they need from vegetable proteins.

 

[Josie]

I've always wondered if that Activia is really good for you ....

 

[lizzie]

From PubMed:

Metabolic animal studies suggest that the quality of soy protein is inferior to that of casein protein, but confirmatory studies in humans are lacking. The study objective was to assess the quality of casein and soy protein by comparing their metabolic effects in healthy human subjects. Whole-body protein kinetics, splanchnic leucine extraction, and urea production rates were measured in the postabsorptive state and during 8-h enteral intakes of isonitrogenous [0.42 g protein/(kg body weight . 8 h)] protein-based test meals, which contained either casein (CAPM; n = 12) or soy protein (SOPM; n = 10) in 2 separate groups. Stable isotope techniques were used to study metabolic effects. With enteral food intake, protein metabolism changed from net protein breakdown to net protein synthesis. Net protein synthesis was greater in the CAPM group than in the SOPM group [52 +/- 14 and 17 +/- 14 nmol/(kg fat-free mass (FFM) . min), respectively; P < 0.02]. Urea synthesis rates decreased during consumption of both enteral meals, but the decrease tended to be greater in the subjects that consumed CAPM (P = 0.07). Absolute splanchnic extraction of leucine was higher in the subjects that consumed CAPM [306 +/- 31 nmol/(kg FFM . min)] vs. those that consumed SOPM [235 +/- 29 nmol/(kg FFM . min); P < 0.01]. In conclusion, a significantly larger portion of soy protein is degraded to urea, whereas casein protein likely contributes to splanchnic utilization (probably protein synthesis) to a greater extent. The biological value of soy protein must be considered inferior to that of casein protein in humans.
Casein and soy protein meals differentially affect wh... [J Nutr. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[afr0byte]

But you'll read and trust the wiki whi8ch has sources you're not fully aware of? Is it your position this data about goat's/cow's milk is made up?

I quoted an FDA article that was referenced by Wikipedia. But, I won't read the chiropractic site mostly because I don't care enough to. But I'm also skeptical of chiropractors.

 

[lizzie]

I've always wondered if that Activia is really good for you ....

I've never really looked into it, but I thought it was a pro-biotic-type food with acidophilus or another gut microbe. What exactly is it supposed to do, healthwise?

 

[Josie]

I've never really looked into it, but I thought it was a pro-biotic-type food with acidophilus or another gut microbe. What exactly is it supposed to do, healthwise?

I don't know exactly. I've never eaten it.

 

[afr0byte]

I've never really looked into it, but I thought it was a pro-biotic-type food with acidophilus or another gut microbe. What exactly is it supposed to do, healthwise?

You got it. It's supposed to improve your microflora.

 

[lizzie]

I don't know exactly. I've never eaten it.

As far as I know, it's a yogurt product with added bacteria for digestion. As long as it's regular milk protein, I wouldn't be too concerned. You can buy acidophilus caps at the health food stores, which accomplish the same thing essentially.