The Differences between the LEFT and LIBERALs.

[smallvoice]

You really need to lose the 'Libertarian' tag on your profile.

You are like most Libertarians, you wear the Libertarian clothes but inside you are 110% Republican far right.

Nope, not even close.

 

[smallvoice]

Ah PragerU.

Using cutesy animations to satisfy the confirmation biases of Captain Adverses everywhere.

Of course videos like this are strawmen on the scale of the Collosus of Rhodes.

Why don't you have the backbone to pick a political lean position?

 

[smallvoice]

It's a fair distinction. Equality and liberty, the cornerstones of liberalism, are neither Left or Right which are designations more in line with divisions of economic power. But while it is possible for a Leftist nation to be antagonistic to liberalism, as in Stalinist USSR for example, liberalism never survives under a Right wing government.

"Equality and liberty, the cornerstones of liberalism"? What a bunch of hooey.

 

[Fearandloathing]

In a prior thread I posted that true Liberals, Centrists, and Conservatives often share goals but simply differ on how best to reach them. That the problem with arguing with Leftist’s is that their goals are often diametrically opposed to Liberal, Centrist, and Conservative ones, thus there is little or no room for compromise.

The reaction was swift, as Members who assert that the Left and being Liberal are the same thing jumped on this with both feet, crying that I was denigrating anyone not a "Conservative."

This morning I came across another Prager U. video just this morning which points out some of the clear differences between what constitutes someone on the Left from someone who is a true Liberal.



Here are the six difference presented, for those who hate watching “propaganda” and prefer summations:

1. Race:

The Liberal Position:

a. The color of a person’s skin is insignificant, and
b. Those who believe Race is significant, are racists.
c. Liberals are committed to racial integration.

Left’s Position:
a. The attitude that Race is unimportant, is racist.
b. The Left is committed to racial segregation (ex. In colleges advocating for separate college dorms, separate graduation ceremonies, etc.).

2. Capitalism:

Liberal Position:

a. Liberals are committed to Capitalism because the support Free Enterprise and because this system lifts large numbers of people out of poverty.
b. Liberals do support a bigger government role in the economy, but never opposed capitalism in support of Socialism.

Left’s Position:

a. Opposition to Capitalism and Advocacy of Socialism.

3. Nationalism:

Liberal Position:

a. A belief in the nation-state, thus willing to protect American sovereignty and borders.

Left’s Position:

a. The world is divided by class not national identity, thus supports open borders and globalism.

4. View of America:

Liberal Position:

a. Venerate America, patriotic, America is the last, best hope of Earth.

Left’s Position:

a. America is racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, violent, and imperialistic.

5. Free Speech:

Liberal Position:

a. I wholly disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Left’s Position:

a. Identifies things they disagree with as “Hate Speech” which deserves no protection at all. In fact, it deserves punishment of some kind.

6. Western Civilization:

Liberal Position:

a. Champion Western Civilization’s moral, philosophic, artistic, musical, and literary achievements.

Left’s Position:

a. Western Civilization is no better than any other, and is just a euphemism for White Supremacy.

I hope this clears up some confusion about the differences between what I consider to be LEFT as oppsed to being LIBERAL.

I have read this three times over and still can find NOT ONE reference to a study, survey or even scholarly investigation. Ergo it is opinion unsupported by fact and, in the end fantasy.


You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

I closing the terms 'left" and "right" are no longer used in political science, so your ignorance is very, very evident.


Don't bother replying I don't care what you think

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

i am a Helixist. Let's make a platform, shall we?

1. Race

The Helixist Position:

The color of a person’s skin is insignificant. However, there are a lot of racist fools out there, so we need to take that into account and make sure that entire races of people aren't getting ****ed over by the echoes of racist inertia. Someday when that is no longer a thing, we can take another look at it. It isn't someday yet.

2. Capitalism:

Helixist position

Well regulated capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the best system that we've come up with so far. Well regulated capitalism can include crazy things like labor rights and universal health care like it does in every other first world nation. Thanks for asking!

3. Nationalism:

Helixist Position:

Let's face it, many "nationalists" are detestable racists as well as xenophobic idiots. However, we like where we live, and we understand that humans are still very tribal, so we aren't just going to let someone bomb the **** out of us without doing something about it. This should be tempered with the fact that we also aren't going to blow an artery if someone doesn't do backflips of joy over an anthem before a boring sporting event.

a. A belief in the nation-state, thus willing to protect American sovereignty and borders.

Helixist Position:

We understand that people are coming here because the corporate interests who own the government want cut rate undocumented labor, and that until this part of the equation is addressed, one could build a wall to the moon and it still wouldn't stop supply filling demand. We also don't want to kick people out who have been here since they were little kids. We might support a real humanitarian solution that is intelligent. I have a few ideas about how to do this. Spoiler : my plan is exceptionally unlikely to be enacted.

4. The world is divided by class not national identity, thus supports open borders and globalism.

View of Helixists:

The main divide both nationally and internationally is socioeconomic / access to resources. This is probably something that we should look at, as real risks to humanity include disease, big rocks from space, and reality television, so we should stop shooting metal projectiles at each other for a few and figure that stuff out instead.

5. Free Speech:

Helixist Position:



Well, let's examine that. Sure, i don't support you being thrown in jail for saying idiotic bull****, but if you get fired from your job for it, tough titty said the kitty when the milk went dry. Also, there are such things as hate crimes, and you can rot a bit extra if you commit one.


6. Western Civilization:

Helixist Position:

Is a good civilization. Stop tainting it by making it about scared, undereducated, mouth breathing white dude neo-naziism. If your grandkids are mixed race, you'll live through it somehow.

I hope that this clears up what it means to be a Helixist. At the next meeting, i'll bring booze and cookies.

I had no idea I was a Helixist until just now.
What kind of booze should I bring?

 

[smallvoice]

A job that pays enough to cover the outrageous cost of almost everything. If a person renting has to use two paychecks just to cover their rent, doesn't leave a lot of money left to cover other life essentials.

Ever think of getting an education, working your way up the ladder? If you don't produce, why should you get something for nothing?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Ever think of getting an education, working your way up the ladder? If you don't produce, why should you get something for nothing?

How old are you, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[smallvoice]

How is this administration doing in your fiscal conservative opinion? I'm not asking overall how you think it's doing, I'm asking specifically about the fiscal part.

Poorly, but I shudder to contemplate the Clinton II administration try to deliver.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

In a prior thread I posted that true Liberals, Centrists, and Conservatives often share goals but simply differ on how best to reach them. That the problem with arguing with Leftist’s is that their goals are often diametrically opposed to Liberal, Centrist, and Conservative ones, thus there is little or no room for compromise.

The reaction was swift, as Members who assert that the Left and being Liberal are the same thing jumped on this with both feet, crying that I was denigrating anyone not a "Conservative."

This morning I came across another Prager U. video just this morning which points out some of the clear differences between what constitutes someone on the Left from someone who is a true Liberal.



Here are the six difference presented, for those who hate watching “propaganda” and prefer summations:

1. Race:

The Liberal Position:

a. The color of a person’s skin is insignificant, and
b. Those who believe Race is significant, are racists.
c. Liberals are committed to racial integration.

Left’s Position:
a. The attitude that Race is unimportant, is racist.
b. The Left is committed to racial segregation (ex. In colleges advocating for separate college dorms, separate graduation ceremonies, etc.).

2. Capitalism:

Liberal Position:

a. Liberals are committed to Capitalism because the support Free Enterprise and because this system lifts large numbers of people out of poverty.
b. Liberals do support a bigger government role in the economy, but never opposed capitalism in support of Socialism.

Left’s Position:

a. Opposition to Capitalism and Advocacy of Socialism.

3. Nationalism:

Liberal Position:

a. A belief in the nation-state, thus willing to protect American sovereignty and borders.

Left’s Position:

a. The world is divided by class not national identity, thus supports open borders and globalism.

4. View of America:

Liberal Position:

a. Venerate America, patriotic, America is the last, best hope of Earth.

Left’s Position:

a. America is racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, violent, and imperialistic.

5. Free Speech:

Liberal Position:

a. I wholly disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Left’s Position:

a. Identifies things they disagree with as “Hate Speech” which deserves no protection at all. In fact, it deserves punishment of some kind.

6. Western Civilization:

Liberal Position:

a. Champion Western Civilization’s moral, philosophic, artistic, musical, and literary achievements.

Left’s Position:

a. Western Civilization is no better than any other, and is just a euphemism for White Supremacy.

I hope this clears up some confusion about the differences between what I consider to be LEFT as oppsed to being LIBERAL.

Huh. Yet another long list of arbitrarily chosen characteristics and positions applied to two groups that haven't even been defined.

Pathetic.

 

[smallvoice]

It is nonsense like that (bolded above) which makes any discussion impossible. You seem to be saying that two people doing the same job for the same employer should be paid differently based on their (household's?) living expenses.

That concept is a little communist, a little socialist. How about gaining the skills needed to EARN the money needed?

 

[smallvoice]

What kind of degree can I get at Prager U?

Apparently better than the one you have.

 

[smallvoice]

On the boards I post on most people changed from conservative or Republican to libertarians about a year after trump was elected. I've always found that fascinating.

It's clear that we don't like his big mouth and attitude, but you should recognize that we didn't become liberals/progressives/socialists/communists.
I've always found that fascinating.

 

[smallvoice]

Nope, we don't say or believe "b". Those who believe race is significant are not very bright...….but they are not racist. Racist are those who dislike someone with a different skin color solely because of their skin color. Sad strawman you have there.

If race were "insignificant", there would be no racism. It's clear that those who think it is significant are racist.

 

[smallvoice]

i am a Helixist. Let's make a platform, shall we?

1. Race

The Helixist Position:

The color of a person’s skin is insignificant. However, there are a lot of racist fools out there, so we need to take that into account and make sure that entire races of people aren't getting ****ed over by the echoes of racist inertia. Someday when that is no longer a thing, we can take another look at it. It isn't someday yet.

2. Capitalism:

Helixist position

Well regulated capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the best system that we've come up with so far. Well regulated capitalism can include crazy things like labor rights and universal health care like it does in every other first world nation. Thanks for asking!

3. Nationalism:

Helixist Position:

Let's face it, many "nationalists" are detestable racists as well as xenophobic idiots. However, we like where we live, and we understand that humans are still very tribal, so we aren't just going to let someone bomb the **** out of us without doing something about it. This should be tempered with the fact that we also aren't going to blow an artery if someone doesn't do backflips of joy over an anthem before a boring sporting event.

a. A belief in the nation-state, thus willing to protect American sovereignty and borders.

Helixist Position:

We understand that people are coming here because the corporate interests who own the government want cut rate undocumented labor, and that until this part of the equation is addressed, one could build a wall to the moon and it still wouldn't stop supply filling demand. We also don't want to kick people out who have been here since they were little kids. We might support a real humanitarian solution that is intelligent. I have a few ideas about how to do this. Spoiler : my plan is exceptionally unlikely to be enacted.

4. The world is divided by class not national identity, thus supports open borders and globalism.

View of Helixists:

The main divide both nationally and internationally is socioeconomic / access to resources. This is probably something that we should look at, as real risks to humanity include disease, big rocks from space, and reality television, so we should stop shooting metal projectiles at each other for a few and figure that stuff out instead.

5. Free Speech:

Helixist Position:



Well, let's examine that. Sure, i don't support you being thrown in jail for saying idiotic bull****, but if you get fired from your job for it, tough titty said the kitty when the milk went dry. Also, there are such things as hate crimes, and you can rot a bit extra if you commit one.


6. Western Civilization:

Helixist Position:

Is a good civilization. Stop tainting it by making it about scared, undereducated, mouth breathing white dude neo-naziism. If your grandkids are mixed race, you'll live through it somehow.

I hope that this clears up what it means to be a Helixist. At the next meeting, i'll bring booze and cookies.

There's a lot to be said for that position. When is the National Convention?

 

[smallvoice]

More resist and override than dismantle.

One of many: https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/ncr-today/trump-leading-anti-democratic-assault-us

Nonsense, Jack.

 

[JC Callender]

Ah PragerU.

Using cutesy animations to satisfy the confirmation biases of Captain Adverses everywhere.

Of course videos like this are strawmen on the scale of the Collosus of Rhodes.

What's untrue about it?

 

[smallvoice]

Some of us considered neither Hillary or Trump to be up to the job, and suspect Hillary would just be a different form of ineptitude and Trump has proven beyond a doubt he is not fit.
Maybe the American People will have learned their lesson by now, but that remains to be seen.

Not as long as the DNC thinks they get to pick the candidate. The Republicans fought it out and Trump won, much to all our chagrin. He's bad, but not as bad as Hill. I felt that there were many better candidate on both sides. Too bad they lost.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Is Barack Obama a liberal or a leftist? Hillary Clinton?

Are Black only dormitories at universities real?

What do people mean by "Western Civilization"?

Why would Superman, an illegal alien from Krypton, be American?

 

[smallvoice]

This is a clown thread. thanks for the laughs... :lol:

What's "Other"? Chinese?

 

[smallvoice]

How old are you, if you don't mind my asking?

74. and what does that give you?

 

[Helix]

There's a lot to be said for that position. When is the National Convention?

the venue isn't booked for sure, but it will probably be at a bar of questionable respectability during happy hour on a Thursday.

 

[smallvoice]

the venue isn't booked for sure, but it will probably be at a bar of questionable respectability during happy hour on a Thursday.

How do I get to be a delegate?

 

[bongsaway]

Ever think of getting an education, working your way up the ladder? If you don't produce, why should you get something for nothing?

Let me add to that line of bullcrap. When you produce more for your boss, your boss will recognize your good work and in turn you'll get a raise. Sounds wonderful if you live in fairy tale land but not so great in reality. And as far as college is concerned any dem who goes to college and works his or her way up the ladder then becomes a liberal elitist in the opinion of the right.

I'm retired, I don't have to worry about ladders.

 

[Casper]

Not as long as the DNC thinks they get to pick the candidate. The Republicans fought it out and Trump won, much to all our chagrin. He's bad, but not as bad as Hill. I felt that there were many better candidate on both sides. Too bad they lost.

Agree, except I believe it is us that lost, us as in all Americans.

 

[JackA]

Nonsense, Jack.

Anything that challenges your prejudices probably seems nonsense to your small understanding. I doubt you know that The Declaration of Independece and The Constitution with The Bill of Rights are considered among the great liberal documents of history.