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The Differences between the LEFT and LIBERALs.

JackA said:
It's a fair distinction. Equality and liberty, the cornerstones of liberalism, are neither Left or Right which are designations more in line with divisions of economic power. But while it is possible for a Leftist nation to be antagonistic to liberalism, as in Stalinist USSR for example, liberalism never survives under a Right wing government.
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Therefore we are not a right-wing government....
 
Captain Adverse said:
In a prior thread I posted that true Liberals, Centrists, and Conservatives often share goals but simply differ on how best to reach them. That the problem with arguing with Leftist’s is that their goals are often diametrically opposed to Liberal, Centrist, and Conservative ones, thus there is little or no room for compromise.

The reaction was swift, as Members who assert that the Left and being Liberal are the same thing jumped on this with both feet, crying that I was denigrating anyone not a "Conservative."

This morning I came across another Prager U. video just this morning which points out some of the clear differences between what constitutes someone on the Left from someone who is a true Liberal.



Here are the six difference presented, for those who hate watching “propaganda” and prefer summations:

1. Race:

The Liberal Position:

a. The color of a person’s skin is insignificant, and
b. Those who believe Race is significant, are racists.
c. Liberals are committed to racial integration.

Left’s Position:
a. The attitude that Race is unimportant, is racist.
b. The Left is committed to racial segregation (ex. In colleges advocating for separate college dorms, separate graduation ceremonies, etc.).

2. Capitalism:

Liberal Position:

a. Liberals are committed to Capitalism because the support Free Enterprise and because this system lifts large numbers of people out of poverty.
b. Liberals do support a bigger government role in the economy, but never opposed capitalism in support of Socialism.

Left’s Position:

a. Opposition to Capitalism and Advocacy of Socialism.

3. Nationalism:

Liberal Position:

a. A belief in the nation-state, thus willing to protect American sovereignty and borders.

Left’s Position:

a. The world is divided by class not national identity, thus supports open borders and globalism.

4. View of America:

Liberal Position:

a. Venerate America, patriotic, America is the last, best hope of Earth.

Left’s Position:

a. America is racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, violent, and imperialistic.

5. Free Speech:

Liberal Position:

a. I wholly disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Left’s Position:

a. Identifies things they disagree with as “Hate Speech” which deserves no protection at all. In fact, it deserves punishment of some kind.

6. Western Civilization:

Liberal Position:

a. Champion Western Civilization’s moral, philosophic, artistic, musical, and literary achievements.

Left’s Position:

a. Western Civilization is no better than any other, and is just a euphemism for White Supremacy.

I hope this clears up some confusion about the differences between what I consider to be LEFT as oppsed to being LIBERAL.
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Sorry, my friend...I don't know why you constantly attempt to generalize. Forget everything else, it's inherently inaccurate, which I would have thought would be a big enough deal to make someone like you not engage in it. Are there only two camps of conservatism? Put 10 different liberals in a room, and you'll have 10 different opinions on what a liberal is. I would assume the same is true of conservatives.

I guess the curious part for me is, why do you feel the need to classify and categorize?
 
Bill Clinton turned the Dem Party into the Rep Party. Causing the Rep Party to go far right. The Clinton Dems are the Liberals of today.

Prager U is a joke.
 
Captain Adverse said:
In a prior thread I posted that true Liberals, Centrists, and Conservatives often share goals but simply differ on how best to reach them. That the problem with arguing with Leftist’s is that their goals are often diametrically opposed to Liberal, Centrist, and Conservative ones, thus there is little or no room for compromise.

The reaction was swift, as Members who assert that the Left and being Liberal are the same thing jumped on this with both feet, crying that I was denigrating anyone not a "Conservative."

This morning I came across another Prager U. video just this morning which points out some of the clear differences between what constitutes someone on the Left from someone who is a true Liberal.



Here are the six difference presented, for those who hate watching “propaganda” and prefer summations:

1. Race:

The Liberal Position:

a. The color of a person’s skin is insignificant, and
b. Those who believe Race is significant, are racists.
c. Liberals are committed to racial integration.

Left’s Position:
a. The attitude that Race is unimportant, is racist.
b. The Left is committed to racial segregation (ex. In colleges advocating for separate college dorms, separate graduation ceremonies, etc.).

2. Capitalism:

Liberal Position:

a. Liberals are committed to Capitalism because the support Free Enterprise and because this system lifts large numbers of people out of poverty.
b. Liberals do support a bigger government role in the economy, but never opposed capitalism in support of Socialism.

Left’s Position:

a. Opposition to Capitalism and Advocacy of Socialism.

3. Nationalism:

Liberal Position:

a. A belief in the nation-state, thus willing to protect American sovereignty and borders.

Left’s Position:

a. The world is divided by class not national identity, thus supports open borders and globalism.

4. View of America:

Liberal Position:

a. Venerate America, patriotic, America is the last, best hope of Earth.

Left’s Position:

a. America is racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, violent, and imperialistic.

5. Free Speech:

Liberal Position:

a. I wholly disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Left’s Position:

a. Identifies things they disagree with as “Hate Speech” which deserves no protection at all. In fact, it deserves punishment of some kind.

6. Western Civilization:

Liberal Position:

a. Champion Western Civilization’s moral, philosophic, artistic, musical, and literary achievements.

Left’s Position:

a. Western Civilization is no better than any other, and is just a euphemism for White Supremacy.

I hope this clears up some confusion about the differences between what I consider to be LEFT as oppsed to being LIBERAL.
Click to expand...


Interesting how many people denounce the video without actually discussing the video....
 
Fledermaus said:
Therefore we are not a right-wing government....
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Obviously not. We are a constitutional government that enshrines liberal values against the urges of stooges like Trump
 
i am a Helixist. Let's make a platform, shall we?

1. Race

The Helixist Position:

The color of a person’s skin is insignificant. However, there are a lot of racist fools out there, so we need to take that into account and make sure that entire races of people aren't getting ****ed over by the echoes of racist inertia. Someday when that is no longer a thing, we can take another look at it. It isn't someday yet.

2. Capitalism:

Helixist position

Well regulated capitalism isn't perfect, but it's the best system that we've come up with so far. Well regulated capitalism can include crazy things like labor rights and universal health care like it does in every other first world nation. Thanks for asking!

3. Nationalism:

Helixist Position:

Let's face it, many "nationalists" are detestable racists as well as xenophobic idiots. However, we like where we live, and we understand that humans are still very tribal, so we aren't just going to let someone bomb the **** out of us without doing something about it. This should be tempered with the fact that we also aren't going to blow an artery if someone doesn't do backflips of joy over an anthem before a boring sporting event.

a. A belief in the nation-state, thus willing to protect American sovereignty and borders.

Helixist Position:

We understand that people are coming here because the corporate interests who own the government want cut rate undocumented labor, and that until this part of the equation is addressed, one could build a wall to the moon and it still wouldn't stop supply filling demand. We also don't want to kick people out who have been here since they were little kids. We might support a real humanitarian solution that is intelligent. I have a few ideas about how to do this. Spoiler : my plan is exceptionally unlikely to be enacted.

4. The world is divided by class not national identity, thus supports open borders and globalism.

View of Helixists:

The main divide both nationally and internationally is socioeconomic / access to resources. This is probably something that we should look at, as real risks to humanity include disease, big rocks from space, and reality television, so we should stop shooting metal projectiles at each other for a few and figure that stuff out instead.

5. Free Speech:

Helixist Position:

a. I wholly disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Well, let's examine that. Sure, i don't support you being thrown in jail for saying idiotic bull****, but if you get fired from your job for it, tough titty said the kitty when the milk went dry. Also, there are such things as hate crimes, and you can rot a bit extra if you commit one.


6. Western Civilization:

Helixist Position:

Is a good civilization. Stop tainting it by making it about scared, undereducated, mouth breathing white dude neo-naziism. If your grandkids are mixed race, you'll live through it somehow.

I hope that this clears up what it means to be a Helixist. At the next meeting, i'll bring booze and cookies.
 
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Oh look.

Another fake libertarian Trumpist is trying to tell me what I think.

:roll:
 
ttwtt78640 said:
What, exactly, is a "living wage"? I agree that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to discuss any public policy position when no specifics are involved.
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So apparently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage
A living wage is the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet their basic needs.[3] Needs are defined to include food, housing, and other essential needs such as clothing. The goal of a living wage is to allow a worker to afford a basic but decent standard of living.[4] Due to the flexible nature of the term "needs", there is not one universally accepted measure of what a living wage is and as such it varies by location and household type.
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So it would seem that exact dollar amounts are going to vary by what is defined as a "need" and where one lives.

living_wage.jpg

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/05/what-a-living-wage-would-be-in-every-us-state.html
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is far easier said than done. In order to discuss public policy X one has to define it first. Tossing out terms like "Medicare For All" without defining any major program/policy details is meaningless.
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Of course. Any policy - from “Medicare for all” to “build the wall” must be defined and then arguments for or against specific details of those policies can and should be thoughtfully debated.

That’s a far stretch though, from broad brush defining what “Political Lean X” is - especially by those who are not themselves a part of said political lean x. That’s done only by partisan hacks who are trying to create imaginary boogeymen enemies to argue against.
 
Prager U.

Garbage in, garbage out.
 
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The big difference is between democrats and the left/liberals. Unfortunately the democrat party has been taken over by the left/liberals.
 
longview said:
I would always like to see a tighter hand on the peoples money, but I think they are doing better than a Hillary administration would have done.
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Some of us considered neither Hillary or Trump to be up to the job, and suspect Hillary would just be a different form of ineptitude and Trump has proven beyond a doubt he is not fit.
Maybe the American People will have learned their lesson by now, but that remains to be seen.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
You really need to lose the 'Libertarian' tag on your profile.

You are like most Libertarians, you wear the Libertarian clothes but inside you are 110% Republican far right.
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He is? Because . . . ?
 
Captain Adverse said:
In a prior thread I posted that true Liberals, Centrists, and Conservatives often share goals but simply differ on how best to reach them. That the problem with arguing with Leftist’s is that their goals are often diametrically opposed to Liberal, Centrist, and Conservative ones, thus there is little or no room for compromise.

The reaction was swift, as Members who assert that the Left and being Liberal are the same thing jumped on this with both feet, crying that I was denigrating anyone not a "Conservative."

This morning I came across another Prager U. video just this morning which points out some of the clear differences between what constitutes someone on the Left from someone who is a true Liberal.



Here are the six difference presented, for those who hate watching “propaganda” and prefer summations:

1. Race:

The Liberal Position:

a. The color of a person’s skin is insignificant, and
b. Those who believe Race is significant, are racists.
c. Liberals are committed to racial integration.

Left’s Position:
a. The attitude that Race is unimportant, is racist.
b. The Left is committed to racial segregation (ex. In colleges advocating for separate college dorms, separate graduation ceremonies, etc.).

2. Capitalism:

Liberal Position:

a. Liberals are committed to Capitalism because the support Free Enterprise and because this system lifts large numbers of people out of poverty.
b. Liberals do support a bigger government role in the economy, but never opposed capitalism in support of Socialism.

Left’s Position:

a. Opposition to Capitalism and Advocacy of Socialism.

3. Nationalism:

Liberal Position:

a. A belief in the nation-state, thus willing to protect American sovereignty and borders.

Left’s Position:

a. The world is divided by class not national identity, thus supports open borders and globalism.

4. View of America:

Liberal Position:

a. Venerate America, patriotic, America is the last, best hope of Earth.

Left’s Position:

a. America is racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, violent, and imperialistic.

5. Free Speech:

Liberal Position:

a. I wholly disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Left’s Position:

a. Identifies things they disagree with as “Hate Speech” which deserves no protection at all. In fact, it deserves punishment of some kind.

6. Western Civilization:

Liberal Position:

a. Champion Western Civilization’s moral, philosophic, artistic, musical, and literary achievements.

Left’s Position:

a. Western Civilization is no better than any other, and is just a euphemism for White Supremacy.

I hope this clears up some confusion about the differences between what I consider to be LEFT as oppsed to being LIBERAL.
Click to expand...


This is a clown thread. thanks for the laughs... :lol:
 
SheWolf said:
This is a clown thread. thanks for the laughs... :lol:
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Thank YOU for proving my points in the first thread I also posted a link to about arguing with the Left. :coffeepap:
 
bongsaway said:
Why do folks spend so much time trying to explain to liberals or leftists whichever you prefer, what they are? I think it might be better if the right tried to figure out what their own party stands for. I hear every day what they are against and other than god, guns, abortion and taxes what is the GOP for? Certainly not clean air or water, a living wage for the hourly wage slaves, better education, infrastructure which is talked about but nothing put forward. Health care for all? What is the GOP for?
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Why do libertarians pretend that the term "classical liberal" has ANY other MEANING other than "right wing libertarian" and then go on ad nauseum in an attempt to pretend that liberals of today and the left are at odds. Liberals are to the Left. Leftists are liberal, and although the latter might be MORE left than mainstream liberals NO ONE in the Democratic mainstream OR on the further Left outcroppings embraces "classical liberalism" because that's Koch Brothers, that's ALEC, that's Prager, that's Ron Paul.

Adverse, you're peddling bullcrap. And it's major bullcrap because Dennis Prager does not control the messaging of ANY liberals whatsoever.
It's like Ronald McDonald claiming that he understands Jack in the Box better than Jack when he "doesn't know Jack".

The term "liberal" AS USED BY "classical liberals" is a smokescreen and it belongs in the same pile of bullcrap as Dinesh D'Souza's weapons grade historical revisionism.
 
Kobie said:
Prager U.

Garbage in, garbage out.
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Dennis Prager defining what liberalism is, is like Elon Musk claiming he knows Rex Tillerson's ideas on petroleum better than Rex does.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is far easier said than done. In order to discuss public policy X one has to define it first. Tossing out terms like "Medicare For All" without defining any major program/policy details is meaningless.
Click to expand...

If we start with the concept that all Americans are entitled to health care that does not bankrupt them if they get sick, would that be simpler to you? I find even that to be too much to ask from right wingers. Most of the Democrats social programs stem from FDR's 2nd bill of rights you cannot claim this is radical and new. Our slowness to adopt universal coverage is the result of a quirk of history where Govt. wage controls forced companies to offer health coverage as a perk. Now that companies are covering less and less of the burden it might be finally time to switch and save ourselves a bunch of cash. It really is all about stopping the rapid rise in HC costs that will bankrupt the country if it continues. The HC insurers have only 2 ways to increase profits, more customers, or higher premiums based on increased costs. They have a vested interest in keeping the cost of care rising.
 
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bongsaway said:
Why do folks spend so much time trying to explain to liberals or leftists whichever you prefer, what they are?
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People on the Right (which Captain Adverse IS despite protestation to the contrary) are OBSESSED with controlling the messaging from liberals, to the point where they even believe that they own the actual patent on what defines the term "liberal" itself.

Classical liberal is not a valid or workable term in the United States at all, and hasn't been since the mid 1700's.
A so called "classical liberal" is a conservative libertarian. End of story.

Furthermore, Prager is not a liberal, thus he does not speak for liberals, and his Trumpian academy credentials amount to any idiot with Adobe Premiere and a laptop.

Dennis Mark Prager (born August 2, 1948) is an American nationally syndicated conservative radio talk show host and writer. Born into an Orthodox Jewish family, his initial political work concerned Soviet Jews who were unable to emigrate. He gradually began offering more and broader commentary on politics. His views generally align with Social conservatism. He founded PragerU, an American non-profit organization that creates videos on various political, economic, and philosophical topics from a conservative perspective.

What do you suppose the conservative reaction would be if someone like AOC were to establish a "university" that produces "instructional" videos that teach people about conservatism?

Last but not least, I am getting sick and tired of every moron who thinks that they have the right and invitation to use the TERM "university" anywhere and any way that they want. If you apply to work at McDonald's, they send you to "Hamburger University" but they are quick to admit that it's nothing more than a cute way of referring to an employee training program, and not some accredited secondary educational institution with a board of regents and a peer review staff of credentialed professors.

---Sent from Butt-Hole University...it's a real university because I say it is!!
 
iguanaman said:
If we start with the concept that all Americans are entitled to health care that does not bankrupt them if they get sick, would that be simpler to you? I find even that to be too much to ask from right wingers. Most of the Democrats social programs stem from FDR's 2nd bill of rights you cannot claim this is radical and new. Our slowness to adopt universal coverage is the result of a quirk of history where Govt. wage controls forced companies to offer health coverage as a perk. Now that companies are covering less and less of the burden it might be finally time to switch and save ourselves a bunch of cash. It really is all about stopping the rapid rise in HC costs that will bankrupt the country if it continues. The HC insurers have only 2 ways to increase profits, more customers, or higher premiums based on increased costs. They have a vested interest in keeping the cost of care rising.
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The theory that government can (and eventually will?) prevent rising costs always sounds good yet the costs of K-12 and higher education are also growing faster than general inflation despite nearly total government control. Medicare for some virtually requires supplemental private insurance so the claim that Medicare for all will no longer do so deserves serious skepticism.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I hope this clears up some confusion about the differences between what I consider to be LEFT as oppsed to being LIBERAL.
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I'm astounded that you believe there is a difference between "The Left" and "liberals." I consider this progress.

So, you're admitting that liberals are not Socialists? Obama and Hillary Clinton are not socialists?

I'm curious. Name politicians on "The Left" and politicians who are just liberals?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
People on the Right (which Captain Adverse IS despite protestation to the contrary) are OBSESSED with controlling the messaging from liberals, to the point where they even believe that they own the actual patent on what defines the term "liberal" itself.

Classical liberal is not a valid or workable term in the United States at all, and hasn't been since the mid 1700's.
A so called "classical liberal" is a conservative libertarian. End of story.

Furthermore, Prager is not a liberal, thus he does not speak for liberals, and his Trumpian academy credentials amount to any idiot with Adobe Premiere and a laptop.

Dennis Mark Prager (born August 2, 1948) is an American nationally syndicated conservative radio talk show host and writer. Born into an Orthodox Jewish family, his initial political work concerned Soviet Jews who were unable to emigrate. He gradually began offering more and broader commentary on politics. His views generally align with Social conservatism. He founded PragerU, an American non-profit organization that creates videos on various political, economic, and philosophical topics from a conservative perspective.

What do you suppose the conservative reaction would be if someone like AOC were to establish a "university" that produces "instructional" videos that teach people about conservatism?

Last but not least, I am getting sick and tired of every moron who thinks that they have the right and invitation to use the TERM "university" anywhere and any way that they want. If you apply to work at McDonald's, they send you to "Hamburger University" but they are quick to admit that it's nothing more than a cute way of referring to an employee training program, and not some accredited secondary educational institution with a board of regents and a peer review staff of credentialed professors.

---Sent from Butt-Hole University...it's a real university because I say it is!!
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What I have noticed about the American right is that they immediately go to personal insults. It's never about the issue itself, but about the individual....and is always hurled in total ignorance - a blasting of hate that smears all "not Trumps" and lumps into one tin can.

In the last two years I have been accused more than 50 times of being a "Hilary" fan. One about Trump's hush money payments ran like this: "all you libruls only want to destroy the country through Hilary."\\


Each time I have offered a reward of my entire retirement fund IF they could find ONE post where I said anything positive about the woman. But in Repulicania you're in bed with the "thieving libruls" if you don't hop-to every one of Trump's ridiculous demands. I know its late in the game to discover this, but I don't think any of them are very bright.

It's the same here. Ask a Canadian Conservative a question and he will recite their entire platform. In the last federal election I asked the local Conservative candidate ( a man I have known for a few years) what his party would to for first nations. His response was to tell the whole room I was a "Liberal hack"...and never did answer the question'
 
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