the difference in pro-gun vs anti-gun

hecatmoggie · Aug 7, 2023

Armed woman shoots road rage 'aggressor' trying to force his way into her car: DA

An unidentified woman in North Carolina will face no charges after fatally shooting a man in a Food Lion parking lot in self-defense, according to the local district attorney.

www.foxnews.com

Road rage, video, witnesses that all say she avoided being beaten/killed by protecting herself

Anti-gun people would want this woman unarmed and a victim or possibly dead

Cameron · Aug 7, 2023

I'm willing to bet there are far more instances of people trying to force their way into cars using illegal (and sometimes legal) guns.

Anti-gun people would want this woman unarmed and a victim or possibly dead

And I guess you just want people with guns to be able to steal cars and kill their owners at will, huh? /sarcasm

Nobody wants people dead, it's about whether you think more dangerous weapons in more hands make people more or less safer. Seems like an obvious answer to me.

Rich2018 · Aug 7, 2023

stealthycat said:
Armed woman shoots road rage 'aggressor' trying to force his way into her car: DA

An unidentified woman in North Carolina will face no charges after fatally shooting a man in a Food Lion parking lot in self-defense, according to the local district attorney.

www.foxnews.com

Road rage, video, witnesses that all say she avoided being beaten/killed by protecting herself

Anti-gun people would want this woman unarmed and a victim or possibly dead

Pro-gun control would want the woman's assailant to be unarmed too.

JMB1911A1 · Aug 7, 2023

Rich2018 said:
Pro-gun control would want the woman's assailant to be unarmed too.

And then he would have the advantage in size and strength to beat her to death or stab her.

hecatmoggie · Aug 7, 2023

Rich2018 said:
Pro-gun control would want the woman's assailant to be unarmed too.

does it say anywhere the assaulter had a gun ?

and no, anti-gun would mean the person would just use a knife or bat or something illegal - remember, anti-gun has nothing to do with stopping violence, we've proven that

Rich2018 · Aug 8, 2023

JMB1911A1 said:
And then he would have the advantage in size and strength to beat her to death or stab her.

As opposed to having the advantage in size and strength to beat her to death or shoot her

If you allow people to buy guns to defend themselves, you de facto arm muggers/robbers/murders/rapists etc

In the UK, some years ago, MACE was marketed for women, as a way to even the size and strength advantage that a male assailant might have
However, MACE was banned after it was found to be the weapon of choice for many muggers/rapists etc. The very opposite of what it was trying to do
So it is with guns.

Rich2018 · Aug 8, 2023

stealthycat said:
does it say anywhere the assaulter had a gun ?

and no, anti-gun would mean the person would just use a knife or bat or something illegal - remember, anti-gun has nothing to do with stopping violence, we've proven that

Better they just have a knife than a gun.

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

Rich2018 said:
Better they just have a knife than a gun.

right, you want criminals and violent people to continue doing what they're doing with other weapons or illegals ones, you want to keep victims powerless and defenseless

me? I want the woman in the car to defend herself from criminals/violent people

fundamental difference

I can tell you've never been the victim of assault before

Rich2018 · Aug 8, 2023

stealthycat said:
right, you want criminals and violent people to continue doing what they're doing with other weapons or illegals ones, you want to keep victims powerless and defenseless

me? I want the woman in the car to defend herself from criminals/violent people

fundamental difference

I can tell you've never been the victim of assault before

No, of course I don't want people to attack other people

I'd rather criminals (muggers/rapists etc) did not have a gun

You are OK with them having a gun for some reason
If I was to be the victim of a mugging/assault, I'm much prefer my assailant did not have a gun. Have you been the victim of an mugging/assault ?

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

Rich2018 said:
No, of course I don't want people to attack other people

your side does nothing to stop violent people - instead, they go after law abiding gun owners, legal citizens wanting to protect themselves

you can't deny that either - all the anti-gun laws target law abiding people, it does NOTHING to stop violence

Rich2018 said:
I'd rather criminals (muggers/rapists etc) did not have a gun

that's right, your side does nothing to stop criminals - your side just wants them to use knives and ball bats etc

Rich2018 said:
You are OK with them having a gun for some reason
If I was to be the victim of a mugging/assault, I'm much prefer my assailant did not have a gun. Have you been the victim of an mugging/assault ?

my side has never said that - my side says target the violence/criminals and allow law abiding people to defend themselves

you've never been a victim - not answering is an answer

in the link provided, you'd have that woman be a victim, get beaten or even killed - that's the anti-gun side. They want women to be victims, they want people to be victims without a means of self protection. oddly enough, the anti-gun liberal side is also the side that says never trust police AND decreases prison sentences for violent people AND paroles early AND encourages drug use AND aligns with the political party that controls major cities where so much violence happens

I support you not having a gun, I'd appreciate you supporting me if I choose to

JMB1911A1 · Aug 8, 2023

stealthycat said:
your side does nothing to stop violent people - instead, they go after law abiding gun owners, legal citizens wanting to protect themselves

you can't deny that either - all the anti-gun laws target law abiding people, it does NOTHING to stop violence

that's right, your side does nothing to stop criminals - your side just wants them to use knives and ball bats etc

my side has never said that - my side says target the violence/criminals and allow law abiding people to defend themselves

you've never been a victim - not answering is an answer

in the link provided, you'd have that woman be a victim, get beaten or even killed - that's the anti-gun side. They want women to be victims, they want people to be victims without a means of self protection. oddly enough, the anti-gun liberal side is also the side that says never trust police AND decreases prison sentences for violent people AND paroles early AND encourages drug use AND aligns with the political party that controls major cities where so much violence happens

I support you not having a gun, I'd appreciate you supporting me if I choose to

Yup, it seems that according to the anti-civil rights gun banners, a woman who is raped is morally superior to one who puts two hollow points in her attacker's chest.

Rich2018 · Aug 8, 2023

stealthycat said:
your side does nothing to stop violent people - instead, they go after law abiding gun owners, legal citizens wanting to protect themselves

Well the existence of the 2nd Amendment prevents any significant gun control
Why do you imagine that the left oppose severe penalties for crimes of violence ?

stealthycat said:
you can't deny that either - all the anti-gun laws target law abiding people, it does NOTHING to stop violence

Please explain how gun control laws don't affect criminals
Gun control isn't motivated to stop violent crime par se, it is motivated to stop shootings in general and mass shootings in particular.

stealthycat said:
that's right, your side does nothing to stop criminals - your side just wants them to use knives and ball bats etc

See above about stopping violence
Why would anyone want criminals to commit crimes at all? And if they do commit crimes, why would anyone want them to use weapons ?

stealthycat said:
my side has never said that - my side says target the violence/criminals and allow law abiding people to defend themselves

And how's that working with 400+ mass shootings per year ?
The gun control movement seeks to target those who'd commit shootings in general and mass shootings in particular.

stealthycat said:
you've never been a victim - not answering is an answer

No, I never have
Have you? If so, were you armed?

stealthycat said:
in the link provided, you'd have that woman be a victim, get beaten or even killed - that's the anti-gun side. They want women to be victims, they want people to be victims without a means of self protection. oddly enough, the anti-gun liberal side is also the side that says never trust police AND decreases prison sentences for violent people AND paroles early AND encourages drug use AND aligns with the political party that controls major cities where so much violence happens

She was a victim
You would have people be the victims of muggers/rapists/intruders armed with guns. Why are you so keen on arming criminals ?

stealthycat said:
I support you not having a gun, I'd appreciate you supporting me if I choose to

I do not support people owning guns, except for a small minority who need a gun (from a small number of gun types) to do their job.
Why should I support muggers/rapists/intruders carrying a gun ? That makes them more dangerous.

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

Rich2018 said:
Well the existence of the 2nd Amendment prevents any significant gun control
Why do you imagine that the left oppose severe penalties for crimes of violence ?

we have lots of laws on guns right now - didn't you know ?

I think the left gets wrapped up in political correctness and wokeness and many don't live in the same world the rest of us live in. its very easy to be soft hearted and against hard penalties when you live in upper class areas with no violence, no illegals, never a worry about things like that.

Rich2018 said:
Please explain how gun control laws don't affect criminals
Gun control isn't motivated to stop violent crime par se, it is motivated to stop shootings in general and mass shootings in particular.

no, 100% wrong

gun control affects every citizen in the USA that wants to legally purchase a gun and since 99.95% of us are law abiding citizens, any gun control law would affect all of us

you make it sound like gun control only targets criminals - it does just the opposite

Rich2018 said:
See above about stopping violence
Why would anyone want criminals to commit crimes at all? And if they do commit crimes, why would anyone want them to use weapons ?

well that's something you'd have to ask the liberal left who are far more concerned with legal law abiding people that criminals

Rich2018 said:
And how's that working with 400+ mass shootings per year ?
The gun control movement seeks to target those who'd commit shootings in general and mass shootings in particular.

those 400 violent people - where are they now? 10-15 years waiting for a sentencing? Out in 4 years for good behavior? we've discussed this before, your "400" number is because of the way the counting is done

my side says pass laws/focus on those 400 violent/mentally ill people - your side says don't do anything to them except make them use illegal guns or knives etc, keep letting them do their violence though right'? don't try and stop them

and, all the victims of those 400 incidents .... why don't they have the right to self defense? Like this article I posted - which you ignore .... she saved herself. You hate that ... why ? You'd have her unarmed and a victim beaten or dead. Why ?

Rich2018 said:
No, I never have
Have you? If so, were you armed?

I've been a victim yes and no, I wasn't armed at the time.

Rich2018 said:
She was a victim
You would have people be the victims of muggers/rapists/intruders armed with guns. Why are you so keen on arming criminals ?

absolutely I'd have people like her armed and she was a targeted person who would have been a victim and because she had a gun she was a survivor and the violent person dead. He'll never attack someone else again.

criminals/violent people will always be "armed" with knives, bats, something. I want them all in prison or dead and gone away from society ........ but as long as they're out there? I want to be armed, and I'd like to see everyone who wants to be armed the same.

you don't want to be armed - I support you

Rich2018 said:
I do not support people owning guns, except for a small minority who need a gun (from a small number of gun types) to do their job.
Why should I support muggers/rapists/intruders carrying a gun ? That makes them more dangerous.

those police are the ones your side wants to defund and says not to trust. why ?

I don't think you do support criminals carrying guns, we have laws to stop that don't we? common sense gun laws that says people like that can't have guns and certainly illegal to use them against innocent people. Gun laws. We live in a free society, people can choose to be dangerous and violent if they fail in their responsibilities as citizens.

When that happens, you need superior force like this woman or be a victim of assault, rape and even death. the violent people can use any weapon they choose - you know that double the people are murdered with knives/fists/bats than with semi-auto rifles but that doesn't stop your crazy side from their rabid march against rifles does it ?

Your side doesn't care about stopping violent people that I can see, Biden's administration has passed what laws targeting criminals/prisoners? Any ? Any at all that you can note? Because you probably can tell me one or two things he's done to lessen sentencing for criminals right ? and you can tell me laws passed targeting gun owners, right ?

MrWonka · Aug 8, 2023

stealthycat said:
Road rage, video, witnesses that all say she avoided being beaten/killed by protecting herself

Well, look at what we have here. It's multiple road rage incidents from the same city in which the idiot with the gun was the problem...

Authorities identify woman fatally shot in North Charleston road rage

Police arrested two men who they say were involved in a road rage incident which led to the fatal shooting of a woman in the North Charleston area.

www.live5news.com

Man identified in alleged road rage incident with gunfire, deputies say

Charleston County deputies say they have identified a man seen on video firing a gun during a dispute in West Ashley.

www.live5news.com

I've got two random incidents and you've only got one, so it looks like I win.

But wait, there's more...

3-year-old accidentally shoots his mom to death in family's car in a suburban Chicago supermarket parking lot

The family was sitting in their car outside a Food 4 Less store when the boy somehow found the gun and fired it, striking his mother, police said.

www.cbsnews.com

Jamie Gilt, gun advocate shot by her 4-year-old son, remains infamous six months later

When a child protective service worker went to interview Jamie Gilt's young son about shooting his mother, they handed him a coloring book. They talked about injuries. They talked about going to t…

www.jacksonville.com

In two different incidents, women who kept loaded guns inside their vehicle to "protect themselves" ended up getting accidentally shot and killed by their own children riding in the car who somehow got their hands on the gun.

So, to recap... we've got four examples of someone keeping a loaded gun in their car with delusions of grandeur expecting to be heroic who accidentally end up getting themselves or other innocent people seriously hurt or killed.

You've got 1 example of a woman, who was probably only going to get yelled at and might have sustained minor injuries before the witnesses to the incident stepped in to help her, and a Deadman who as far as you know only wanted to yell at the woman for cutting him off.

By my count, that's:
Pro-gun choices: Definately getting 5 people killed. Two children were scared for life. One woman might have protected herself.
Anti-gun choices: One woman might have suffered minor injuries, but everyone else lives happily ever after.

Rich2018 · Aug 8, 2023

stealthycat said:
we have lots of laws on guns right now - didn't you know ?

And how are they working with 400+ mass shootings pa

stealthycat said:
the left gets wrapped up in political correctness

The left lives in a world of 400+ mass shootings pa

stealthycat said:
gun control affects every citizen in the USA that wants to legally purchase a gun and since 99.95% of us are law abiding citizens, any gun control law would affect all of us

you make it sound like gun control only targets criminals - it does just the opposite

Yes, gun control (the banning of guns) would affect everyone who wanted to buy a gun (other that the few types of gun not prohibited

A gun ban's aim is to disarm those who'd harm others with their guns
In order to do this, it would disarm those that wouldn't

stealthycat said:
well that's something you'd have to ask the liberal left who are far more concerned with legal law abiding people that criminals

Or I could ask you:
Why would YOU want criminals to commit crimes and to use weapons in the commission of them ?

stealthycat said:
those 400 violent people - where are they now? 10-15 years waiting for a sentencing? Out in 4 years for good behavior? we've discussed this before, your "400" number is because of the way the counting is done

How would YOU define a mass shooting
And what mass shooter has ever survived and served 4 years or less in prison ?

stealthycat said:
my side says pass laws/focus on those 400 violent/mentally ill people - your side says don't do anything to them except make them use illegal guns or knives etc, keep letting them do their violence though right'? don't try and stop them

AFTER they've committed their shootings
The gun control lobby would deny them the tools to commit them in the first place.

stealthycat said:
and, all the victims of those 400 incidents .... why don't they have the right to self defense?

They do.

stealthycat said:
I've been a victim yes and no, I wasn't armed at the time.

And you escaped with your life
What happened and how would a gun have helped you ?

stealthycat said:
absolutely I'd have people like her armed

Then you de facto arm assailants.

stealthycat said:
criminals/violent people will always be "armed" with knives, bats, something. I want them all in prison or dead and gone away from society

Better that than guns.

stealthycat said:
you don't want to be armed - I support you

You want to allow criminals to be armed - I do not support you.

stealthycat said:
those police are the ones your side wants to defund and says not to trust. why ?

Increase resources for healthcare/counselling
The USA is inefficient in police funding. There should be one police force, per state

stealthycat said:
I don't think you do support criminals carrying guns, we have laws to stop that don't we?

And how well are they working ?
US gun laws are all about restricting demand for guns, we need to focus on restricting supply too

stealthycat said:
We live in a free society, people can choose to be violent

"Choosing" to be a criminal is not a function of a free society

stealthycat said:
When that happens, you need superior force

But you would grant the criminal the option of employing superior force

stealthycat said:
Your side doesn't care about stopping violent people that I can see

Absurd comment. Why do you think that the gun control lobby doesn't want to reduce crime ?
It do, and specifically it wants to reduce the consequences of such crime, by making criminals less dangerous

stealthycat said:
Biden's administration has passed what laws targeting criminals/prisoners?

Presidents don't pass laws

stealthycat said:
...one or two things he's done to lessen sentencing for criminals right ?

Can you name any (federal) laws passed Jan 2021-Jan 2023 ?
Even on lessening sentences ?

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

MrWonka said:
Well, look at what we have here. It's multiple road rage incidents from the same city in which the idiot with the gun was the problem...

Authorities identify woman fatally shot in North Charleston road rage

Police arrested two men who they say were involved in a road rage incident which led to the fatal shooting of a woman in the North Charleston area.

www.live5news.com

Man identified in alleged road rage incident with gunfire, deputies say

Charleston County deputies say they have identified a man seen on video firing a gun during a dispute in West Ashley.

www.live5news.com

I've got two random incidents and you've only got one, so it looks like I win.

But wait, there's more...

3-year-old accidentally shoots his mom to death in family's car in a suburban Chicago supermarket parking lot

The family was sitting in their car outside a Food 4 Less store when the boy somehow found the gun and fired it, striking his mother, police said.

www.cbsnews.com

Jamie Gilt, gun advocate shot by her 4-year-old son, remains infamous six months later

When a child protective service worker went to interview Jamie Gilt's young son about shooting his mother, they handed him a coloring book. They talked about injuries. They talked about going to t…

www.jacksonville.com

I'd like to know if those guns used were legally being carried - criminals don't care about the law you know. That first one ... wow, a lot happened there

MrWonka said:
In two different incidents, women who kept loaded guns inside their vehicle to "protect themselves" ended up getting accidentally shot and killed by their own children riding in the car who somehow got their hands on the gun.

So, to recap... we've got four examples of someone keeping a loaded gun in their car with delusions of grandeur expecting to be heroic who accidentally end up getting themselves or other innocent people seriously hurt or killed.

nobody has illusions of grandeur - stop that nonsense

MrWonka said:
You've got 1 example of a woman, who was probably only going to get yelled at and might have sustained minor injuries before the witnesses to the incident stepped in to help her, and a Deadman who as far as you know only wanted to yell at the woman for cutting him off.

how many women are assaulted every year? don't underplay it because you think maybe she'd just have been slapped around some a minor injuries. Please, its insulting to the hundreds of thousands that are physically hurt every year

MrWonka said:
By my count, that's:
Pro-gun choices: Definately getting 5 people killed. Two children were scared for life. One woman might have protected herself.
Anti-gun choices: One woman might have suffered minor injuries, but everyone else lives happily ever after.

well that's all that has happened this year then folks, we can wrap this one up then !

MrWonka has just summed up how liberals think - getting physically assaulted, raped, beat up a little bit .... its not that much to have to deal with as long as we can keep a few guns away from violent people, right MrWonka'? Isn't that really what you're saying? Its more important that people be unable to fight back than it is for each person to have the right to choose self protections ?

hey, btw

3,192 self defense examples https://foac-pac.org/Defense-Stories
3,468 self defense examples here https://foac-illea.org/Defense-Stories
496 pages here of self defense examples https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

Rich2018 said:
And how are they working with 400+ mass shootings pa
The left lives in a world of 400+ mass shootings pa

we live in a violent society - stop violent people, end violence

Rich2018 said:
Yes, gun control (the banning of guns) would affect everyone who wanted to buy a gun (other that the few types of gun not prohibited
A gun ban's aim is to disarm those who'd harm others with their guns
In order to do this, it would disarm those that wouldn't

so the gun ban's aim will affect 99.95% legal law abiding people who've done nothing wrong

can you give me an example of anything else in the USA that we try to tackle and do the same method ? any example at all ?

Rich2018 said:
Or I could ask you:
Why would YOU want criminals to commit crimes and to use weapons in the commission of them ?

I don't care what weapons criminals choose - if we got rid of criminals, the 99.95% of the US population that are legal and law abiding wouldn't have to give up knives or ball bat or our hunting rifles/shotguns etc etc

Rich2018 said:
How would YOU define a mass shooting
And what mass shooter has ever survived and served 4 years or less in prison ?

Any act of violence with more than 20 dead people ... there, I just reduced our mass shootings my what, 95% ? or .... we could say anyone who's possibly/maybe have been shot at is a mass shooting, and we could 100X times the number of mass shootings. Its all about how we count

Nikolas Cruz killed how many and we're letting him live what, the next 40-50 years in prison at $45,000 a year cost. I think that's a tragedy

Rich2018 said:
AFTER they've committed their shootings
The gun control lobby would deny them the tools to commit them in the first place.

no, you'd deny them a very small % of weapons they could choose from - many other weapons are available, from knives to cars to bombs to blackmarket guns .......... you WOULD be taking away a person's best/fastest way of self defense choice though

Rich2018 said:
And you escaped with your life
What happened and how would a gun have helped you ?

if I told you full story you'd call bs so its not worth telling

ask all the women raped every year how many would have liked to have had a gun to fight back with

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

Rich2018 said:
Then you de facto arm assailants.
Better that than guns.
You want to allow criminals to be armed - I do not support you.

how would you advise a 5'0" 105# woman to best defend herself against a rapist, her continually abusive partner, a violence attacker on the street etc ?

Rich2018 said:
Increase resources for healthcare/counselling
The USA is inefficient in police funding. There should be one police force, per state

yours is the side of DEFUND POLICE and don't trust police - not mine

Rich2018 said:
And how well are they working ?
US gun laws are all about restricting demand for guns, we need to focus on restricting supply too

we've seen violence go down for decades - what we have works well but we live in a violent nation so .... its part of having a free society

Rich2018 said:
"Choosing" to be a criminal is not a function of a free society

sure it is

Rich2018 said:
But you would grant the criminal the option of employing superior force

they have it anyway - boy you sure don't know much about criminals and their behaviors

Rich2018 said:
Absurd comment. Why do you think that the gun control lobby doesn't want to reduce crime ?
It do, and specifically it wants to reduce the consequences of such crime, by making criminals less dangerous

you seem to think the core problem is the inanimate object a criminal/violent person uses .... its not no more so than the beer is the core problem of a drunk driver or fertilizer was the core problem of Timothy McVeigh

the core problem is those violent people

why don't your side understand that ?

Rich2018 said:
Presidents don't pass laws

executive orders - and Biden's administration has done nothing but help criminals and target gun owners

prove me wrong

Rich2018 said:
Can you name any (federal) laws passed Jan 2021-Jan 2023 ?
Even on lessening sentences ?

Biden EO on guns - worthless towards doing anything against violence, targets gun owners
eliminating cash bails - does nothing but help criminals
Oct 6, 2022 — Biden Pardons Thousands Convicted of Marijuana Possession Under Federal Law
While on the campaign trail, Biden said he would eliminate the federal death penalty. Though it has not been eliminated, there is currently a moratorium on it
Biden is a Democrat - every piece of anti-gun legislation is Democrat sponsored, he is an extension of them.

Again I say, Democrats and Biden have done nothing but HELP criminals/violent people .... and attack law abiding gun owners

MrWonka · Aug 8, 2023

stealthycat said:
how many women are assaulted every year? don't underplay it because you think maybe she'd just have been slapped around some a minor injuries. Please, its insulting to the hundreds of thousands that are physically hurt every year

Almost all of those women are hurt by current or ex-romantic partners. Not random dudes in a Food Lion parking lot with a ton of witnesses to intervene.

stealthycat said:
MrWonka has just summed up how liberals think - getting physically assaulted, raped, beat up a little bit .... its not that much to have to deal with as long as we can keep a few guns away from violent people,

You might as well be arguing against seat belts because sometimes they choke or leave bruises on people. As if somehow that's better than hundreds if not thousands of people dying because they went flying heads first through the windshield.

stealthycat said:
3,192 self defense examples https://foac-pac.org/Defense-Stories
3,468 self defense examples here https://foac-illea.org/Defense-Stories
496 pages here of self defense examples https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/

Are you ****ing kidding me? This is the best you got? 6000 cases?

There were 48,000 gun deaths in the united states last year.

Half of your bullshit stories have no way to verify their accuracy and most of the rest don't even qualify.
I think this was my favorite...

A 14-year-old girl armed with a knife helped police catch a career criminal who they say broke into her home in Middleboro Friday morning.

If a 14-year-old girl only needs a knife what's wrong with you that makes you think you need a gun?
I thought you were arguing about the need for guns. This little girl didn't seem to need one. Why is she on your list?

Or how about this one...

Florida Self Defense: Milton man arrested in Pace home invasion spree; homeowner offered shooting lessons :: 04/21/2022

A Milton man was arrested after a Pace home burglary spree early Wednesday evening, Santa Rosa County Sherriff Bob Johnson said in a press conference Thursday morning.

I'm confused... If this man went on a home invasion spree, how come he didn't kill anybody in the first few houses he invaded?
Oh, that's right because the overwhelming majority of burglars aren't trying to kill or hurt anyone. They want your stuff. So you don't need a gun to protect yourself, you just need a deadbolt and a dog.

Or this one...

PHILADELPHIA (CBS) -- A store manager turned the tables on a would-be thief during an attempted robbery at a North Philadelphia Dollar General on Thursday night. The manager shot and killed the suspect. "The shooter did in fact have a simulated weapon, which he communicated that to the store employees."

He was a thief, that's all. He claimed he had a gun, but he didn't. So there was never really any danger to the manager or employees. He wanted money, that's all.

So this manager risked starting a gunfight in his store which could have resulted in the death of himself or his employees all so he could defend the $200 in the cash register. He's not a hero, he's a ****ing moron.

Rich2018 · Aug 8, 2023

stealthycat said:
we live in a violent society - stop violent people, end violence

The USA leads the world in proportion of population incarcerated, yet violent crime still happens
Banning guns would significantly reduce the worst kinds of violent crime

stealthycat said:
so the gun ban's aim will affect 99.95% legal law abiding people who've done nothing wrong

Yes

stealthycat said:
can you give me an example of anything else in the USA that we try to tackle and do the same method ?

Child porn

stealthycat said:
I don't care what weapons criminals choose - if we got rid of criminal

Your plan would seem to be harsher penalties and to increase the already world leading prison population
Time to focus on supply and not just demand for guns

stealthycat said:
Any act of violence with more than 20 dead people ... there, I just reduced our mass shootings my what, 95% ?

Why not 100 and eliminate mass shootings ?
They still happen, but you can more easily ignore them

stealthycat said:
Nikolas Cruz killed how many and we're letting him live what, the next 40-50 years in prison at $45,000 a year cost.

Hardly your claim of "10-15 years waiting for a sentencing? Out in 4 years for good behavior"
Mass shooters don't wait years for sentencing or serve just 4 years
Stop lying

stealthycat said:
you'd deny them a very small % of weapons they could choose from

Denying them guns or carrying any offensive weapon without good reason

stealthycat said:
if I told you full story you'd call bs so its not worth telling

Confirming what I thought

stealthycat said:
ask all the women raped every year how many would have liked to have had a gun to fight back with

What do your studies show the % to be ?

stealthycat said:
how would you advise a 5'0" 105# woman to best defend herself against a rapist

Same as the majority of Americans without guns do, or people in others countries like Japan and the UK

stealthycat said:
we've seen violence go down for decades - what we have works well but we live in a violent nation so .... its part of having a free society

We're seeing mass shootings rise by the year

stealthycat said:
they have it anyway

And I would seek to deny them guns

stealthycat said:
you seem to think the core problem is the inanimate object a criminal/violent person uses

Without guns there'd be no shootings

stealthycat said:
the core problem is those violent people

why don't your side understand that ?

And they'd be much less of one without guns

stealthycat said:
executive orders - and Biden's administration has done nothing but help criminals and target gun owners

What EO's have helped crime or target gun owners ?

stealthycat said:
Oct 6, 2022 — Biden Pardons Thousands Convicted of Marijuana Possession Under Federal Law
While on the campaign trail, Biden said he would eliminate the federal death penalty. Though it has not been eliminated, there is currently a moratorium on it

Drugs need to be decriminalized and we do need to scrap the death penalty
Neither would help criminals commit crime but help rehabilitation and be a more civilized response to capital crime, respectively

stealthycat said:
Democrats and Biden have done nothing but HELP criminals/violent people .... and attack law abiding gun owners

Biden's administration has done nothing to help crime, or attack the law abiding.

RF667799 · Aug 8, 2023

MrWonka said:
Almost all of those women are hurt by current or ex-romantic partners. Not random dudes in a Food Lion parking lot with a ton of witnesses to intervene.

You might as well be arguing against seat belts because sometimes they choke or leave bruises on people. As if somehow that's better than hundreds if not thousands of people dying because they went flying heads first through the windshield.

Are you ****ing kidding me? This is the best you got? 6000 cases?

There were 48,000 gun deaths in the united states last year.

Half of your bullshit stories have no way to verify their accuracy and most of the rest don't even qualify.
I think this was my favorite...

If a 14-year-old girl only needs a knife what's wrong with you that makes you think you need a gun?
I thought you were arguing about the need for guns. This little girl didn't seem to need one. Why is she on your list?

Or how about this one...

I'm confused... If this man went on a home invasion spree, how come he didn't kill anybody in the first few houses he invaded?
Oh, that's right because the overwhelming majority of burglars aren't trying to kill or hurt anyone. They want your stuff. So you don't need a gun to protect yourself, you just need a deadbolt and a dog.

Or this one...

He was a thief, that's all. He claimed he had a gun, but he didn't. So there was never really any danger to the manager or employees. He wanted money, that's all.

So this manager risked starting a gunfight in his store which could have resulted in the death of himself or his employees all so he could defend the $200 in the cash register. He's not a hero, he's a ****ing moron.

Tldr after seeing "gun deaths".

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

MrWonka said:
Almost all of those women are hurt by current or ex-romantic partners. Not random dudes in a Food Lion parking lot with a ton of witnesses to intervene.

so they don't need a way for self defense ?

MrWonka said:
You might as well be arguing against seat belts because sometimes they choke or leave bruises on people. As if somehow that's better than hundreds if not thousands of people dying because they went flying heads first through the windshield.

that makes no sense

MrWonka said:
Are you ****ing kidding me? This is the best you got? 6000 cases?

There were 48,000 gun deaths in the united states last year.

I'm sure there was a lot more but you said you won by listing 3 AND 3/4 of those deaths were people killing themselves (their body, their choice) and suicides have nothing to do with self defense

MrWonka said:
Half of your bullshit stories have no way to verify their accuracy and most of the rest don't even qualify.
I think this was my favorite...

If a 14-year-old girl only needs a knife what's wrong with you that makes you think you need a gun?
I thought you were arguing about the need for guns. This little girl didn't seem to need one. Why is she on your list?

Or how about this one...

I'm confused... If this man went on a home invasion spree, how come he didn't kill anybody in the first few houses he invaded?
Oh, that's right because the overwhelming majority of burglars aren't trying to kill or hurt anyone. They want your stuff. So you don't need a gun to protect yourself, you just need a deadbolt and a dog.

Or this one...

He was a thief, that's all. He claimed he had a gun, but he didn't. So there was never really any danger to the manager or employees. He wanted money, that's all.

So this manager risked starting a gunfight in his store which could have resulted in the death of himself or his employees all so he could defend the $200 in the cash register. He's not a hero, he's a ****ing moron.

your links were not the best either

but as much reading as you did to find those, you also read all the times guns stopped crimes - that's good

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

Rich2018 said:
The USA leads the world in proportion of population incarcerated, yet violent crime still happens
Banning guns would significantly reduce the worst kinds of violent crime

no - the crimes would still happen because nothing was done to stop the criminals/crimes - ya'll just want them to use weapons you approve you

Rich2018 said:
Yes

why would you do that ?

Rich2018 said:
Child porn

expand on that for me please - and how it equates to stopping violence

Rich2018 said:
Your plan would seem to be harsher penalties and to increase the already world leading prison population
Time to focus on supply and not just demand for guns

lets do death penalty for murders using guns - deal ?

Rich2018 said:
Why not 100 and eliminate mass shootings ?
They still happen, but you can more easily ignore them

well we WOULD "eliminate" mass shootings by doing that, which of course means all the violence is still happening, we just call it something else

but that's how counting works aint it? which is why you're at 400

Rich2018 said:
Denying them guns or carrying any offensive weapon without good reason

and you get to decide what is and isn't a "good reason"

why can't I decide that ?

Rich2018 said:
What do your studies show the % to be ?

I'd think 100% of women raped wishes they'd have had a way to stop the rape wouldn't you ?

Rich2018 said:
Same as the majority of Americans without guns do, or people in others countries like Japan and the UK

and how do they do it ?

Rich2018 said:
We're seeing mass shootings rise by the year

but we have more and more gun laws every year - how's that possible ?

Rich2018 said:
And I would seek to deny them guns

so they'd use another weapons - you're ignoring the core problems

Rich2018 said:
Without guns there'd be no shootings

they'd use other weapons - you're ignoring the core problems

Rich2018 said:
And they'd be much less of one without guns

100% wrong - you think inanimate objects make people violence is the silliest thing I've every read

Rich2018 said:
What EO's have helped crime or target gun owners ?

you tell me https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...-gun-violence-and-make-our-communities-safer/

Rich2018 said:
Drugs need to be decriminalized and we do need to scrap the death penalty
Neither would help criminals commit crime but help rehabilitation and be a more civilized response to capital crime, respectively
Biden's administration has done nothing to help crime, or attack the law abiding.

FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces New Actions to Reduce Gun Violence and Make Our Communities Safer | The White House

Today, in Monterey Park, California, President Biden will announce an Executive Order with the goal of increasing the number of background checks conducted before firearm sales, moving the U.S. as close to universal background checks as possible without additional legislation. The Executive...

www.whitehouse.gov

Biden keeps pushing for more gun laws, banning guns/accessories, ... how about this gem

Democrats demand 1,000% excise tax on ‘assault weapons,’ high-capacity magazines

More than two dozen House Democrats put forward legislation Friday that would impose a 1,000% tax on "assault weapons" and high-capacity magazines.

www.foxnews.com

law abiding citizens in the crosshairs of all that

Rucker61 · Aug 8, 2023

MrWonka said:
I'm confused... If this man went on a home invasion spree, how come he didn't kill anybody in the first few houses he invaded?
Oh, that's right because the overwhelming majority of burglars aren't trying to kill or hurt anyone. They want your stuff. So you don't need a gun to protect yourself, you just need a deadbolt and a dog.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, perhaps. That has nothing to do with my rights.

Or this one...

He was a thief, that's all. He claimed he had a gun, but he didn't. So there was never really any danger to the manager or employees. He wanted money, that's all.

So this manager risked starting a gunfight in his store which could have resulted in the death of himself or his employees all so he could defend the $200 in the cash register. He's not a hero, he's a ****ing moron.

Some who claims they have a gun in the commission of a felony either does have a gun or does not have a gun, and in either case wants the victims to believe that he has one and will use it on them.

Do they deserve the benefit of the doubt?

hecatmoggie · Aug 8, 2023

Liberals want victims

Let the criminals steal your stuff, lets them beat you a little (or a lot), rape, carjackings .......... be a victim

that should be Democrat's 2024 slogan - "Be A Victim" .......... don't blame the poor criminals and violent people, instead, blame the victims, right ?

how's that working in big cities? the places with the most gun control laws? yeah .... not well AND in the same breath as wanting to take away people's rights to self defense they'll bash the police too, the very people we're supposed to have on our sides when it comes to stopping violence !!

I'll stand by it until I'm shown wrong - Liberals want violence, they want society full of victims and they want to disarm legal law abiding people

the difference in pro-gun vs anti-gun

Politically Correct

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