The Democratic Socialist USA?

[Questerr]

Bernie's name was Democratic Socialism, but I understand what your saying. Do you think a government like Norway's would work in the US?

Why wouldn't it?

 

[Luckyone]

So if the Dems win the two Georgia senate seats the country will be changing. And if Biden is medically or mentally unable to do his job ( he broke his foot supposedly playing with the dogs), then it'll be welcome to the Democratic Socialist USA.
Just like Norway! Yippee!
It could happen. Joe is one fall and broken hip from President Harris.


.has a

Grandpappy, use your commons sense will you? The Constitution (greatest document ever written) was put together to prevent any kind of dictators from rising up and taking over the United States. That goes the same for Capitalist Dictators (like Trump) and Socialist Dictators (like Sanders is seen to be).

Neither Biden nor Harris nor any other Democrat will cause the country to become Socialist. First of all, there needs to be a majority in the House and then there has to be a majority in the Senate and then the Executive office (the President) to be able to pass anything and even then, if something is against the established law, the Supreme Court has a say in it as well.

This fear that Republicans have of us becoming a Socialist Country does not many sense..............common sense. Even if the House and the Senate and the President are all in the hands of the Democrats, a majority of the members of those groups would have to vote on it for it to pass and there are enough Democrats that are not in favor of Socialism that even if both the House and the Senate, as well as the president are Democrats, there will be enough Democrats that would not vote to pass such an act.

Perfect example is Trump. He had the House, the Senate and he himself against Obamacare and one Republican member of the Senate (McCain) caused destruction of Obamacare to fail.

Your fears are not supported by reality. Not in this United States that is not only the greatest nation on Earth but has the best Constitution to be found anywhere.

Relax and take it easy. No Hitler, Stalin, or even Xi are to be found here.

 

[Grandpappy]

Harris had the most progressive voting record in the Senate. We're talking AOC, the Squad, Bernie.
Eventually, sooner rather than later, the old dinosaurs like Pelosi and Joe will be gone, and the new blood will take over.

 

[Questerr]

Harris had the most progressive voting record in the Senate. We're talking AOC, the Squad, Bernie.
Eventually, sooner rather than later, the old dinosaurs like Pelosi and Joe will be gone, and the new blood will take over.

What's your source for this claim?

You realize AOC and the Squad are not in the Senate, yes?

 

[joluoto]

Bernie's name was Democratic Socialism, but I understand what your saying. Do you think a government like Norway's would work in the US?

Not exactly like Norway, but I do think a welfare state would work. But America's welfare state must be built according to American pecularities, just as all European welfare states are different from each other.

 

[aociswundumho]

Bernie's name was Democratic Socialism, but I understand what your saying. Do you think a government like Norway's would work in the US?

Not a chance.

1. Norway is tiny, at only 5 million people. Welfare statism works better the smaller the program.

2. Norway is virtually all white, with little diversity. Welfare state programs work best when everyone looks the same.

3. Norway is a big time oil dealer and has a trillion dollar energy fund - and still needs sky high taxes to fund it's welfare state.

4. Americans hate taxes, and the taxes they pay in Scandinavia are insane. For starters, there is a 25% VAT on everything. Their income taxes are much less progressive than the US - in Norway, no taxpayer is left behind. They add special taxes to gasoline, alcohol, cars, to the point where you are basically working for the government - which is exactly what the political left wants.

 

[Questerr]

Not a chance.

1. Norway is tiny, at only 5 million people. Welfare statism works better the smaller the program.

Why? What is your source?

2. Norway is virtually all white, with little diversity. Welfare state programs work best when everyone looks the same.

Why? What is your source?

3. Norway is a big time oil dealer and has a trillion dollar energy fund - and still needs sky high taxes to fund it's welfare state.

The US exports more than double the amount of oil that Norway does. The only issue here is that we are idiots who let private companies steal value from the commons for themselves instead of using it for everyone's benefit.

4. Americans hate taxes, and the taxes they pay in Scandinavia are insane. For starters, there is a 25% VAT on everything. Their income taxes are much less progressive than the US - in Norway, no taxpayer is left behind. They add special taxes to gasoline, alcohol, cars, to the point where you are basically working for the government - which is exactly what the political left wants.

America was objectively better economically when our taxes were more like Scandinavia.

 

[aociswundumho]

America was objectively better economically when our taxes were more like Scandinavia.

What year range was that?

 

[Questerr]

What year range was that?

1952 to 1960. Far less economic inequality, far better growth, far more stable economy.

 

[aociswundumho]

1952 to 1960. Far less economic inequality, far better growth, far more stable economy.

The taxes collected by the federal government during that year range were not much different than they are today. We paid a few more percentage points back then at the federal level, but we paid a littel less in state taxes.

1952 to 1960. Far less economic inequality, far better growth, far more stable economy.

The difference was that there was no modern regulatory state back then. It's the regulatory state the hobbles economic growth and creates inequality.
For virtually any given regulation, the rich, or a large corporation, will always have an easier time complying than the poor or a small business.

 

[Aurora]

Norway's not 'socialist'. Neither is America, nor will it ever be. But the term is used by opponents of the Democratic Party to instill fear in the un-educated & un-knowledgeable.

Norway has generous welfare. They were a small industrious homogenous nation. They could afford welfare as people were willing to pay the heavy taxes to do that. We have a lot of non producers and easy free generous stuff is less affordable. As democrats open the the USA up to massive third world poverty , generous welfare becomes impossible.

 

[Bodecea]

So if the Dems win the two Georgia senate seats the country will be changing. And if Biden is medically or mentally unable to do his job ( he broke his foot supposedly playing with the dogs), then it'll be welcome to the Democratic Socialist USA.
Just like Norway! Yippee!
It could happen. Joe is one fall and broken hip from President Harris.


.

Voluntarily giving up your Social Security, Medicare, and access to police and fire services are you?

 

[Irwin Corey]

I am truly surprised that some of the more, let's just say "devout" Trump haters here consider it fearful to have a Democratic Socialist government in the US. Isn't that what you wanted and expected?

No, and you know it's not. The lie that Democrats want to trun our Republic into a Socialist Nation is horse shit conjured up because fear is the oxygen that keeps the Republican chickenshits alive. Trump had no platform to run on he only had fear and hate the was what he sold, he was the ONLY thing keeping god fearing Americans from despotic socialism. But, thank god, enough more AmeriCANs saw that he was the DESPOT to be feared, his attempt to steal this election is proof positive that he has no alligence to OUR Country, OUR Consitituion, OUR way of life; his only alligence is to himself. And the pathetic GOP leadership in Congress backs him up because they are sold out to the Plutocrats that pull their strings; the Plutocrats that want a perpetual president that they alone controll and a Judicial and Legislature to rubber stamp their president.

Socialism is and never has been a threat to our Republic, but despotic, autocratic, plutocracy is working to tear up OUR Constitution 24/7/365 and the GOP is SOLD OUT to the International Oligarchs that want it; Trump was/is their useful idiot.

 

[Questerr]

The taxes collected by the federal government during that year range were not much different than they are today. We paid a few more percentage points back then at the federal level, but we paid a littel less in state taxes.

View attachment 67307021



The difference was that there was no modern regulatory state back then. It's the regulatory state the hobbles economic growth and creates inequality.
For virtually any given regulation, the rich, or a large corporation, will always have an easier time complying than the poor or a small business.

Yes, preventing companies from mistreating their workers or dumping toxic waste "hobbles economic growth". Sure.

You don't see a problem with the country collecting the same degree of taxes when it has nearly 400 million people and hundreds of billionaires as we did when our country has less than 200 million people and 4 billionaires?

 

[Grandpappy]

Tax rates were higher here in the 50s and 60s, but the deductions were also generous to encourage grown.
Won't work as well now because China.

 

[aociswundumho]

You don't see a problem with the country collecting the same degree of taxes when it has nearly 400 million people

Why should the per capita taxes paid to the rotten government go up when the population increases?

and hundreds of billionaires as we did when our country has less than 200 million people and 4 billionaires?

1. Someone making money doesn't make you any poorer. There is not a fixed-pie of wealth (thanks entirely to capitalism).

2. You have to account for inflation, which is yet another way the government robs us. A billion dollars in 1950 was worth a lot more than it is today. Thanks to the filthy rotten government printing money, every year your money buys less and less, until one day it takes 100 billion dollars to buy three eggs, like in the leftist utopia of Zimbabwe:

 

[Questerr]

Why should the per capita taxes paid to the rotten government go up when the population increases?



1. Someone making money doesn't make you any poorer. There is not a fixed-pie of wealth (thanks entirely to capitalism).

2. You have to account for inflation, which is yet another way the government robs us. A billion dollars in 1950 was worth a lot more than it is today. Thanks to the filthy rotten government printing money, every year your money buys less and less, until one day it takes 100 billion dollars to buy three eggs, like in the leftist utopia of Zimbabwe:

View attachment 67307029

It 100% does. The "pie" only grows so much each year, and each year billionaires "eat" a bigger and bigger chunk of that "pie".

 

[Chomsky]

Norway has generous welfare. They were a small industrious homogenous nation. They could afford welfare as people were willing to pay the heavy taxes to do that. We have a lot of non producers and easy free generous stuff is less affordable.

Yeah, not saying social democracy is not without its problems. No system is perfect. We just try to find that balance between unbridled raw capitalism and social safety. But my point was that despite a higher social aspect than the U.S., Norway is still a mixed capitalist economy.

As democrats open the the USA up to massive third world poverty , generous welfare becomes impossible.

You lost me here.

 

[Aurora]

Yeah, not saying social democracy is not without its problems. No system is perfect. We just try to find that balance between unbridled raw capitalism and social safety. But my point was that despite a higher social aspect than the U.S., Norway is still a mixed capitalist economy.



You lost me here.

Immigration.

 

[Bullseye]

So if the Dems win the two Georgia senate seats the country will be changing. And if Biden is medically or mentally unable to do his job ( he broke his foot supposedly playing with the dogs), then it'll be welcome to the Democratic Socialist USA.
Just like Norway! Yippee!
It could happen. Joe is one fall and broken hip from President Harris.


.

 

[Chomsky]

Immigration.

Ah, well ... O.K. I'll respect your opinion here. There is a lot to fault, I will admit.

 

[dairyair]

So if the Dems win the two Georgia senate seats the country will be changing. And if Biden is medically or mentally unable to do his job ( he broke his foot supposedly playing with the dogs), then it'll be welcome to the Democratic Socialist USA.
Just like Norway! Yippee!
It could happen. Joe is one fall and broken hip from President Harris.


.

Exciting times a coming. woo hoo.

The only way Ga flips to both dems is if trump convinces the republicans their votes don't count.

 

[dairyair]

We won't be like Norway. The Democrats have showed repeatedly that a little socialism will never be enough for them. Their goal is to manage not just opportunities for Americans but also outcomes and the ONLY way to do that is through lots and lots of force. We'll be Cuba far more than we'll be Norway.

My, the drama. Cuba? Not Venezuela?

Maybe more like Singapore.

 

[aociswundumho]

Yeah, not saying social democracy is not without its problems. No system is perfect. We just try to find that balance between unbridled raw capitalism and social safety. But my point was that despite a higher social aspect than the U.S., Norway is still a mixed capitalist economy.

As Milton Friedman used to frequently point out, living standards rose the fastest when capitalism was "unbridled".