The Defense of Israel and of Western Civilization are one.

[Evilroddy]

They disagree.

Villains often do because they see themselves as the heroes in their own narrative.

Wickedness?

Yup.

They have not attacked Iran.

Bombing a hotel in Tehran covertly is still an attack. Attacking an Iranian embassy in Syria is an attack on Iranian sovereign territory is an attack on Iran.

The state if Israel should value its citizens more.

All human life is equal.

The Middle East only for Arabs? Don't tell the Egyptians, Turks, or Iranians.

I never posted that, said that or even thought that. Your internal dialogue may be putting words in my mouth which I never uttered. Sometime I do that too. It's a mistake we all can make.

Good luck with that.

Thank-you. Innocent civilians around the world will value your enthusiastic support!

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

 

[Apocalypse]

To all:

I personally think you should stop replying at this point after your crazy comments but do go ahead and continue to make such embarassing remarks.
Addressing your reply "to all" is hysterical I must say and shows of panic.

In post #28 you called for Israel to be surrounded by "the entire world" and choked economically including the closure of its borders, and then when it (clearly) reacts to defend itself "attack it with force".
You called for war, there's no plausible deniability here. You called for nations that aren't at war with Israel to go to war with Israel and as such hoped for the suffering that would occur on either side.
I rationally noted it's cowardly to call for others to die in the name of your own antisemitic ideology that singles out the Jewish state for special standards and attacks it with imaginary and completely false accusations.

Like I said and others told you as well - Israelis will not give up defending themselves, roll over and die just because you'll want them to. It doesn't work that way.
Israel has every right to defend itself from anyone who attacks it. Those who attack it are blamed with the aggression, Israel defending itself does not make it an aggressor.
Iran specifically is the puppet master behind the various terror groups that wish to kill as many Jews as possible in this region. Israel has and never had no intention of a war with Iran - but it is forced upon it and it will defend itself.

Whatever warmongering fantasies you "progressives" may have on conquering the Jewish state and vanquishing it and making it surrender are hopeless and are doomed to fail.
This isn't the 1940s and the Jews have a state of their own and will defend themselves. Terrorism and antisemitism will not prevail as it never prevailed.
You can throw your names and give special titles to the ideology you think you're opposing here, but it's really just humanity you're against, and again, it's very cowardly to call for others to risk their lives to reach your own ill intentioned objectives instead of risking your own.

 

[Apocalypse]

This is the warped thinking that characterises militant Zionism, puts an idolatrous State of Israel before G-d, kills wantonly in the service of that false idol and worships death and the killing of "others" who live in their midst. When confronted with facts and positions which threaten the militant Zionist project, they lash out with character assassination, lies and threats of overwhelming violence and vow to fight violently against even peaceful measures designed to temper the state violence and state terrorism which militant Zionists hold so close to their violent spirits.

Quite a stupid and idiotic statement even by the usual standard.
People who believe that Israel is right to defend itself and do not accuse it with imaginary and utterly false accusations are moral people - Not "militant Zionists" whatever that means.
It also has zero to do with religion - An atheist who is moral will oppose such nonsense just as much as a religious person who is moral would. It's the clear and obvious moral position to support Israel in its battle to protect its citizens against crazy fanatical terrorists who believe their God wants them to murder Jews. And yes, you and those who support Israel's enemies and wish it to not be able to defend itself are the villains in this story. Just like your type were the villains in 1940s Europe and before that, the villains who always shared the same aims towards the Jewish people throughout human history.

 

[zincwarrior]

All human life is equal.

Nope. Thats an absolute lie. Only the lives of a nation's citizens matter to the citizen.

Bombing a hotel in Tehran covertly is still an attack. Attacking an Iranian embassy in Syria is an attack on Iranian sovereign territory is an attack on Iran.

Ballistic missiles...

I never posted that, said that or even thought that. Your internal dialogue may be putting words in my mouth which I never uttered. Sometime I do that too. It's a mistake we all can make.

You said Arabs. Its racist. Arabs are only one group in the Middle East. But it fits.
Why are only Muslims permitted in North Africa, the Middle East, the Stans and Persia? Why is the only non Muslim state the bad guy that all Muslims must attack in your world view?

 

[Evilroddy]

Nope. Thats an absolute lie. Only the lives of a nation's citizens matter to the citizen.

Zincwarrior:

Your statement above flies in the face of about 75 years of modern universal human rights laws and the UN Charter and therefore my statement is not a lie. Yours however is an opinion.

Ballistic missiles...

... plus drones and cruise missiles too. I am not defending the Iranian Government's choices. I am pointing out that the State of Israel is provoking its neighbours with its militarism and wanton disregard for civilian life. How many Israelis were killed by the two Iranian missile/drone strikes. How many Arabs have been killed by strikes launched by the State of Israel into Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, etc.? The problem is the scale of killing of innocent civilians and destruction of their homes and vital societal infrastructure by the Israeli state. All sides are equally bad in intent. But Israel is far more lethal.

You said Arabs. Its racist. Arabs are only one group in the Middle East. But it fits.

Yes, Arabs are only one group in the Middle East, but they are the dominant land-holding group in the Middle East and they are the prime target for the State of Israel's illegal land grabs and annexations. When the State of Israel starts annexing Georgian lands, Kurdish lands, Iranian lands, etc. then I'll widen my definition of the problem. What race are Arabs? What race are Israelis? What race are Iranians? The majority populations of all three of these groups are Caucasians and thus they are all of the same race. Therefore your claim of racism is a false one. Arabs and Israelis are for the most part the same race. Therefore no racism. Perceived self-supremacy, intolerance and prejudice, yes. Racism. no.

Why are only Muslims permitted in North Africa, the Middle East, the Stans and Persia? Why is the only non Muslim state the bad guy that all Muslims must attack in your world view?

There are Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Druze, Jews, agnostics, atheists, etc. in the Middle East, North Africa, and/or Persia/Iran. Another false statement I'm afraid.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy..

 

[reinaert]

It's not Palestinians vs Israelis, or the world vs savagery, or any of the easily digested binary bullshit.

Right now, at just this historical moment, a brutally ethnonationalist settler government is starving and butchering mostly innocents in a doomed effort to outrun sanctions and a growing pariah status as it tries to exterminate two authoritarian theocratic terrorist movements.

Everyone with any bit of power is also actively making the situation worse.

 

[Evilroddy]

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-calls-urgent-un-meeting-discuss-gazas-humanitarian-situation-2024-10-16/

This is encouraging news for innocent civilians all over the Greater Middle East. It's barely a start but it is movement in the right direction. Hopefully after the election in the U.S. and if former president Trump is defeated, then a similar movement will develop in the US Government's collective policy thinking. This could be the start of a positive movement to force change in the State of Israel.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

 

[Bodi]

Wow, there's such a thing as "western civilization", every day is a school day.

Which is, unfortunately, a wasted exercise on too many students...

 

[Bodi]

Ah yes, mighty Grenada. Thank goodness America saved us from that dire threat to freedom!

Since it is clear that you have no idea what the engagement was about, it is probably smarter to just not make a comment.

 

[snakestretcher]

Since it is clear that you have no idea what the engagement was about, it is probably smarter to just not make a comment.

The 'engagement' was about American paranoia and the alleged dire socialist threat that mighty Grenada presented. The UN General Assembly called the invasion, "a flagrant violation of International Law". Which it was.

 

[oneworld2]

All human life is equal.

Someone should really shout that down the lug holes, at full volume, of the people responsible for the content of western MSM , Roderick

 

[JBG]

Zincwarrior:

Your statement above flies in the face of about 75 years of modern universal human rights laws and the UN Charter and therefore my statement is not a lie. Yours however is an opinion. ... plus drones and cruise missiles too.

I get it. Human rights laws were invented at the end of WW II to prevent Western democracies from defending themselves. Forcing them to adhere to Marquis of Queensbury rules while howling mobs such as al Qaeda and Hamas rampage unchecked. These rules were imposed by one country one vote UNGA. The UN Charter (and point me to what part of the UN Charter to which you are referring) is not a suicide pact.

I am not defending the Iranian Government's choices.

But you are, implicitly and likely explicitly.

I am not defending the Iranian Government's choices. I am pointing out that the State of Israel is provoking its neighbours with its militarism and wanton disregard for civilian life. How many Israelis were killed by the two Iranian missile/drone strikes. How many Arabs have been killed by strikes launched by the State of Israel into Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, etc.? The problem is the scale of killing of innocent civilians and destruction of their homes and vital societal infrastructure by the Israeli state. All sides are equally bad in intent. But Israel is far more lethal.

Yes, Arabs are only one group in the Middle East, but they are the dominant land-holding group in the Middle East and they are the prime target for the State of Israel's illegal land grabs and annexations.

What societal infrastructure? Tunnels?

When the State of Israel starts annexing Georgian lands, Kurdish lands, Iranian lands, etc. then I'll widen my definition of the problem. What race are Arabs? What race are Israelis? What race are Iranians? The majority populations of all three of these groups are Caucasians and thus they are all of the same race. Therefore your claim of racism is a false one. Arabs and Israelis are for the most part the same race. Therefore no racism. Perceived self-supremacy, intolerance and prejudice, yes. Racism. no.

There are Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Druze, Jews, agnostics, atheists, etc. in the Middle East, North Africa, and/or Persia/Iran. Another false statement I'm afraid.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy..

When Georgia or Kurdistan attacks Israel will defend itself. As far as Iran, just watch! As Hezbollah's Nazrallah or Gaza's Sinwar what it's like to be on the wrong end of Israel's righteous fury. Or their pager and walkie-talkie users. Assuming it was Israel that initiated those attacks as is not proven.

Zincwarrior:

Your statement above flies in the face of about 75 years of modern universal human rights laws and the UN Charter and therefore my statement is not a lie. Yours however is an opinion.

As far as Israel's alleged "provocations" these have been necessitated by unprovoked attacks. As you well know. In 1948, on the day of independence they were hit from all sides. When Israel staggered to its feet and began winning, the Arabs whined for a cease fire. Then there were the unprovoked attacks in 1967 and 1973. Screw 'em if they can't take a joke.

 

[JBG]

Tomorrow, October 7, we take sad note of the most deadly attack on Jews since the holocaust. This is a battle of good and evil, not just between Israel and Islamic hatred, but also between Western Civilization and Islam. Like Nazism, Islamism is an ideology that cannot be tolerated among civilized nations. It must be eliminated from the face of the earth.
***********

Anti-Semitism is a disease that has festered for millennia, and no matter how many laws we pass, it will never be cured. But we can keep the illness at bay, and we must. If we have any hope of preserving the principles that underpin our civilization, we cannot afford to be passive. If we falter—if Israel falters—we risk losing not just this battle, but the soul of the West.

You're totally right; here we go again.

 

[StillBallin75]

Just despicable, white supremacist settler-colonialist logic at work here, as any defense of the genocidal apartheid state usually is.

 

[JBG]

Just despicable, white supremacist settler-colonialist logic at work here, as any defense of the genocidal apartheid state usually is.

Who would you have subsidize the basket-case Hamas regime that would take its place? And how would you feel about the ensuing slaughter?

 

[oneworld2]

Who would you have subsidize the basket-case Hamas regime that would take its place?

Well we all know who is subsidizing the Israeli basket case regime that has no legal right to be there, you.

And how would you feel about the ensuing slaughter?

What slaughter would that be?

 

[Evilroddy]

I get it. Human rights laws were invented at the end of WW II to prevent Western democracies from defending themselves. Forcing them to adhere to Marquis of Queensbury rules while howling mobs such as al Qaeda and Hamas rampage unchecked. These rules were imposed by one country one vote UNGA. The UN Charter (and point me to what part of the UN Charter to which you are referring) is not a suicide pact.

JBG:

As many as 147 million human lives were lost during WWII and most of those were civilian lives. By the end of WWII atomic weapons were a fact of war and the potential for even more civilian deaths in future wars was clearly apparent to most participants in the International System. Human Rights were not invented in at the end of WWII. They had existed for centuries since classical liberalism had first started articulating them in legal doctrine and began being encoded in international law and conventions in the 19th Century. What changed after WWII is that these rights were now explicitly deemed to be universal to all humans, not just well to do Westerners. The preamble of the Declaration makes this clear. Nations which joined the UN (including the State of Israel) agreed to abide by the UN Charter and the UN Declaration of Human Rights as a prerequisite for membership.

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/UDHR/Documents/UDHR_Translations/eng.pdf

But you are, implicitly and likely explicitly.

Yo edited out this concluding sentence from my post about the two Iranian missile strikes. "All sides are equally bad in intent. But Israel is far more lethal." That explicitly lays blame on Iran for its choices while also making it clear that the State of Israel's military choices are causing many more deaths and far more destruction of civilian infrastructure. Both states are bad actors with respect to their military choices. So there is no explicit and no implicit defense for Iran's military choices.

What societal infrastructure? Tunnels?

Water treatment and pumping infrastructure, sewage treatment centres, hospitals, schools, civilian homes, apartment buildings, etc. The list is long and the effects of this destruction on civilians is catastrophic.

When Georgia or Kurdistan attacks Israel will defend itself. As far as Iran, just watch! As Hezbollah's Nazrallah or Gaza's Sinwar what it's like to be on the wrong end of Israel's righteous fury. Or their pager and walkie-talkie users. Assuming it was Israel that initiated those attacks as is not proven.

Killing militants like Sinwar, Deif, Nasrallah, etc. is both legal under the laws of war and I support such choices if done carefully. Killing tens of thousands of civilians trapped in overcrowded Gaza is not. Starving civilians, depriving them of potable water, withholding medicines donated by third party nations or groups and bombing them with 2000lbs bombs to get one to several militants is neither legal nor good, especially for the State of Israel which is rapidly becoming a pariah state in most of the world because of its policies and wanton killing of civilian non-combatants.

As far as Israel's alleged "provocations" these have been necessitated by unprovoked attacks. As you well know. In 1948, on the day of independence they were hit from all sides. When Israel staggered to its feet and began winning, the Arabs whined for a cease fire. Then there were the unprovoked attacks in 1967 and 1973. Screw 'em if they can't take a joke.

JBG, learn your history better. The Jewish Agency and the Hagenah had already ethnically cleansed about 250,000 Arabs in 1947 and early 1948 before the surrounding Arab States attacked the nascent State of Israel in 1948. That was provocation. Then in 1956 the State of Israel cooperated with France and the UK to seize the Suez Canal even though it was due to revert into the sole ownership and control of the UAR in 1957 according to the canal's founding charter. That was provocation. sending regimental sized land raids into Jordan in 1966 was provocation. Launching surprise attacks on the UAR's air force and lying about it to the world to start the Six Day War in 1967 was provocation as was the Bulldozer War with Syria in the Golan Heights. The Yom Kippur War was indeed an unprovoked attack by the Arab states on the State of Israel. Three out of the four Arab Israeli Wars were provoked by the State of Israel or the precursor to that state - Jewish Agency. Don't get me started about Israeli attacks on Lebanon, Iraq, Iran and many more countries. The story is roughly the same. Israel cannot discriminate between offensive military operations and defensive military operations.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

 

[bomberfox]

Western civilization has a history that is at odds with Israel.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

Just despicable, white supremacist settler-colonialist logic at work here, as any defense of the genocidal apartheid state usually is.

Ime, many brain-laundered Republicrat-level people continue to swallow the Zioni$t line [ZNN 24/7/365]...Fed to them by the same poisonou$ scum who fed them the 'weapons of mass destruction' line, etceterot ad nau$eam, that they also swallowed hook, line and sinker... When will they ever learn? ugh...

 

[JBG]

JBG, learn your history better. The Jewish Agency and the Hagenah had already ethnically cleansed about 250,000 Arabs in 1947 and early 1948 before the surrounding Arab States attacked the nascent State of Israel in 1948.

Fighting back is not "ethic cleansing."

Water treatment and pumping infrastructure, sewage treatment centres, hospitals, schools, civilian homes, apartment buildings, etc. The list is long and the effects of this destruction on civilians is catastrophic.

Then why is aid money being used to construct tunnels?

 

[JBG]

What changed after WWII is that these rights were now explicitly deemed to be universal to all humans, not just well to do Westerners. The preamble of the Declaration makes this clear. Nations which joined the UN (including the State of Israel) agreed to abide by the UN Charter and the UN Declaration of Human Rights as a prerequisite for membership.

Why is Israel getting the bulk of U.N. violations when there are far more examples in the world, such as Sudan?

JBG, learn your history better. The Jewish Agency and the Hagenah had already ethnically cleansed about 250,000 Arabs in 1947 and early 1948 before the surrounding Arab States attacked the nascent State of Israel in 1948.

Fighting back is not "ethic cleansing."

Water treatment and pumping infrastructure, sewage treatment centres, hospitals, schools, civilian homes, apartment buildings, etc. The list is long and the effects of this destruction on civilians is catastrophic.

Then why is aid money being used to construct tunnels?

Killing militants like Sinwar, Deif, Nasrallah, etc. is both legal under the laws of war and I support such choices if done carefully. Killing tens of thousands of civilians trapped in overcrowded Gaza is not. Starving civilians, depriving them of potable water, withholding medicines donated by third party nations or groups and bombing them with 2000lbs bombs to get one to several militants is neither legal nor good, especially for the State of Israel which is rapidly becoming a pariah state in most of the world because of its policies and wanton killing of civilian non-combatants.

They make "doing it carefully" impossible when they hide among civilians.

 

[JBG]

Western civilization has a history that is at odds with Israel.

No, apparently much of the world is at odds with ̷W̷e̷s̷t̷e̷r̷n̷ ̷c̷i̷v̷i̷l̷i̷z̷a̷t̷i̷o̷n̷ the Jewish people.

 

[JBG]

Well we all know who is subsidizing the Israeli basket case regime that has no legal right to be there, you.

Israel is only being subsidized because of the strain of defending itself.

What slaughter would that be?

I think you know what would happen if "Palestine" merged with Israel.

 

[Evilroddy]

Fighting back is not "ethic cleansing."

JBG:

The Hagenah and more radical Jewish militias were attacking civilian Arabs on their land, in their villages and on their farms. There was no Arab-Israeli War yet when these attacks started. This was proto-Israeli aggression, pure and simple. So yes, it was the beginnings of "ethnic cleansing" and the number displaced was a quarter of a million before the Arab armies attacked.

Then why is aid money being used to construct tunnels?

The State of Israel is blowing up civilian infrastructure on the surface. Your tunnel comment is simply diversion. Now add to this the denial of six medical NGO's by the State of Israel to the Strip which were keeping Gazan Palestinians from succumbing to disease and that the Israeli authorities are restricting food and potable water aid to just 30 trucks a day or about 6% of what Gazans need for bare subsistence and you have clear evidence of a demonstrably intentional policy of the State of Israel to starve the civilian population of Gaza to accelerate the near 44,000 deaths which the Israeli military has already caused. Is attempted genocide a Western value or is the State of Israel doing this atrocity outside of the Western value sphere?

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

Why is Israel getting the bulk of U.N. violations when there are far more examples in the world, such as Sudan?

Because Israel is a state and a member of the UN whereas the Janjaweed militias and the RSF are non-state actors committing atrocities and ethnic cleansing. Why not compare the treatment of the State of Israel with the State of Russia. Russia is facing fare more reaction from the UN and the ICJ than the State of Israel is for Russia's attempts to ethnically cleanse the Donbas and for invading Ukraine.

Fighting back is not "ethic cleansing."

Repetition does not make something true. Israel is not fighting back, it's militarily occupying non-Israeli territory. The State of Israel is the military occupying power in the Occupied Territories and has been since June 1967. It has illegally annexed East Jerusalem, the Golan Heights (Syrian and Lebanese territory) and has stated its intention to annex most if not all of the West Bank. That's has been Illegal since the UN was created and when the State of Israel voluntarily sign on to join the UN it agreed to follow those rules.

Then why is aid money being used to construct tunnels?

Because Hamas has decided to do that in contravention of the terms of that aid flowing to Gaza and no one in Gaza has the strength to challenge Hamas. One might well draw the parallel with the State of Israel and aid from the USA. The Government of the United States Has determined that the State of Israel is in violation of US Arms export agreements with America but still allows the flow of offensive weapons and monetary aid to continue to Israel despite the fact that those weapons are being used to kill civilians by the tens of thousands and to attack civilian infrastructure necessary to maintain civilian life. Both sides are bad actors in this conflict.

They make "doing it carefully" impossible when they hide among civilians.

Have you ever been to Gaza. I have been there, albeit long ago. The place is packed with people and is very small. There is no way for civilians to distance themselves from militants and vice versa. Yet the State of Israel still chooses to use 2,000 lbs. bombs (of American origin) rather than targeting militants with less destructive Hellfire missiles to kill them because it prefers to level "special targets" entire apartment complexes, water purification plants, sewage treatment plants, schools, recreation centres, hospitals, etc. Israeli Cabinet ministers like Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich have all publicly called for a genocidal campaign against the Palestinians and that is what is on the cusp of happening now. What Western Value does that fit in with?

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.