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The Defense of Israel and of Western Civilization are one.

The Defense of the State of Israel and the Defense of Western Neo-colonialism/Hegemony are one. Western Civilization is not imperiled at all at home or abroad. it still dominates the globe. European dominion in Western Civilization is slipping but the values and societal ethics, such as they are, remain intact. When posters post these broad statements without any supporting citations, then they frankly look ill-informed. I'd bet that they don't even really know what Western values are. If they do I would further bet that they leave out many of the less flattering values which formed western cultures in the Modern Age.

Capitalism, mercantilism, colonialism, Imperialism, ruthless exploitation, slavery, (wage-slavery today), political domination. unfettered competition and rivalries, militarism, hegemony, authoritarianism, top-down and managed democracy, individualism, collectivism, religious intolerance, mass manipulation of populations from Guttenberg to K-Street, communism. fascism, racism and racial superiority (white man's burden), eugenics, and of course state-driven genocide are all less flattering facets of Western Civilization but are real and were pivotal in the rise of Western Civilization. The more palatable values like the Rule of Law, a modicum of personal freedom (if you can afford it), property rights, valuing art and architecture, the scientific method plus inductive reasoning, commonwealth, social contracts, division of Church and state, secularism, humanism, legal rights plus responsibilities and the principles of peace, order and good governance all arguably had far less powerful roles in shaping Western Civilization than the less palatable ones listed further above.

This begs the question, is Western Civilization, in its present degenerate form, worth saving? I am not so sure. Western Civilization may be a good springboard to make a value and ethical system which is worth saving but as it operates now it is predatory, divisive and its application is based on expedience rather than principle today.

The State of Israel under the leadership of PM Netanyahu is not worth saving and regime change here is urgently needed to rein in that rogue regime. Serial war crimes, crimes against humanity and what might soon rise to the level of genocide disqualify that state from existence. The people of Israel and a country called Israel do have a right to exist however. The State is not the People or the country but its governing apparatus. Palestinians have a right to a state and country too somewhere between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, so a two-state solution or an inclusive, non-ethnoreligious, single state solution are needed.

What Palestinian militants led by Hamas did on Oct. 7th, 2023 were atrocities and crimes against humanity. However what the State of Israel was doing to Gaza before and after Oct. 7th was far worse in terms of lives lost lives destroyed and damage to property and human lives changed forever. Do not buy into the myth that Oct. 7th was the start of this conflict. It was not. nor will the State of Israel's criminal responses in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Syria, Lebanon and at sea be the end of this conflict. Context is everything in understanding this conflict, even if such context makes good and persuasive arguments harder to make.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
The State of Israel under the leadership of PM Netanyahu is not worth saving and regime change here is urgently needed
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That is up to the people of Israel to decide, not to some would-be-tyrant who plays pretend on an internet message board.

You fail to understand that Israel being forced to defend itself is the fault of those who attack it.
 
That is up to the people of Israel to decide, not to some would-be-tyrant who plays pretend on an internet message board.
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No it is not. That regime is now an out-of-control, criminal one and if the people of Israel cannot or will not end it, then the world should do so by force if necessary as a last resort. The State of Israel must be encircled through political and economic isolation, seizing of State and leaders' assets, economic and legal sanctions, boycotts and the closing of borders. Nothing in and nothing out. If the present State of Israel responds militarily, then massive military responses against the present State of Israel's military infrastructure should be used. If and only if the present State of Israel opts to use weapons of mass destruction, then the world should open its borders to fleeing Israelis and occupied or citizen Palestinians until enough are out and then its game over. If the State of Israel refuses to let Israelis or Palestinians flee, then that's using human shields and that is on the Israeli state.
Apocalypse said:
You fail to understand that Israel being forced to defend itself is the fault of those who attack it.
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No, there is shared responsibility because Oct. 7th was not the start of this conflict and the preponderance of that responsibility falls on successive States of Israel since the late 1970s.

Wise people should rid themselves of this criminal state NOW!

Be well, be safe and be wise.
Evilroddy.
 
Name the country that will go to war with Israel just to protect the interest of antisemites, neo-Nazis and Islamist terror supporters using false accusations against a civilized nation that is forced to defend itself.
Or you're willing to throw your own life away in the name of this idiotic antisemitic thirst for Jewish blood?
Israel and Israelis, anyway, will be fighting to their last drop of blood to defend their sovereignty and the wellbeing of their people, so good luck with that.
Wise people support the nation that defends its people rightfully and legitimately and do not use false accusations against it to justify their own ill intentions.
And October 7 was indeed the beginning of this current war, like it or not, you can go back and talk about previous Israeli actions where it was forced to defend its citizens against the greatest evil on this planet, but that wouldn't be the current war.
 

Not for the first time in history Jews are once again being told if they try to defend themselves they will be exterminated. The world's final solution.
 
snakestretcher said:
Ah yes, mighty Grenada. Thank goodness America saved us from that dire threat to freedom!
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We can only imagine the atrocious arsenal that could have been assembled out of the mass sale of nutmeg

Yeah, we definitely dodged a bullet there, alright
 
Ganondagan said:
Not for the first time in history Jews are once again being told if they try to defend themselves they will be exterminated. The world's final solution.
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There's is as much chance of the Arabs exterminating Israel as there is of you converting to Islam

I don't know whether you are even serious or just putting in the work required for a possible role in the next Hollywood Holocaust film
 
Ganondagan said:
View attachment 67537687
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^^^ PR bollocks

A more realistic outlining

In their mass war crimes in Palestine and Lebanon?

Support Israeli soldiers, support apartheid

Support Israeli soldiers, support genocide

Support Israeli soldiers, support detention without trial and torture

Support Israeli soldiers, support the use of starvation as a weapon of war.

Support Israeli soldiers, support the mass taking of hostages

Support Israeli soldiers, support the slow death of international law
 
Civilized or barbaric?

"In February the Los Angeles Times published an article titled 'I’m an American doctor who went to Gaza. What I saw wasn’t war — it was annihilation'. "The author, a reconstructive surgeon named Irfan Galaria, writes as follows:

https://mronline.org/2024/10/11/isr...iberately-shoot-palestinian-kids-in-the-head/
 
Ganondagan said:
Not for the first time in history Jews are once again being told if they try to defend themselves they will be exterminated. The world's final solution.
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Ganondagan:

Right now the State of Israel is doing the extermination. There seems to be some confusion in people's minds about what constitutes defending one's nation and what is wantonly offensive action. Also. most Jews are not even Israeli citizens. So don't tar them with the same brush as complicit Israeli citizens of any faith. .The criminal actions of the present State of Israel are now being driven by a small but powerful and wicked coalition of far-right wing ethno-religious fanatics like Itimar Ben-G'vir and Bezalel Smotrich, both of whom were investigated and arrested for alleged or attempted terrorism by Israeli authorities in the past. These men are dangerous criminals and hardly representative of the Israeli body-politic. Please do not lump all Jews and all Israelis in with these sociopathic maniacs. The Final Solution comment is not helpful and only serves to poison the debate here with inflammatory speech.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.
 
Brother. What tripe-filled and loaded rhetoric. The State of Israel is not defending itself. It attacking almost all of its neighbouring states and now UN troops in Lebanon too. This isn't about anti-semitism, its about the wanton slaughter of civilians and the runaway militarism of the present-day State of Israel. That state is attacking people it already militarily occupies against the laws of war. It attacks the people of Lebanon with bombs disguised as consumer electronics and with 1000 kg. bunker-busting bombs loosed against apartment buildings full of innocent people. It has no regard for innocent life in its military actions. It regularly attacks the people of Syria, Iranians in embassy compounds there and in Iran itself. Is it any wonder why so many groups and nations are hostile to the State of Israel?

Seeking justice for crimes committed by the State of Israelis against innocent civilians is not anti-semitism anymore than seeking justice against the terrorist militants who planned and executed the Oct. 7th attacks against Israeli and other innocent civilians is Islamophobia. But that justice and punishment must be focused against those who committed the crimes and not against the innocent by-standers around them. Israel's indiscriminant killing of civilian bystanders by the tens of thousands is the issue here, not its right to defend itself from dangerous enemies.

Those who live by the sword will likely die by the sword. If you want to die on your own personal Mount Gilboa, then that's your choice but don't drag down the rest of your fellow citizens and so many Arabs as you live out your Death-cult fantasy.
Apocalypse said:
Wise people support the nation that defends its people rightfully and legitimately and do not use false accusations against it to justify their own ill intentions.
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What false accusations have been made in my post and what the heck do you know about my intentions? Your tendency to resort to personal attacks and attempted character assassination in this Martial Law regulated sub-forum are well known and your opinions are so skewed by the Zion-verse mentality as to be easily discounted by most informed readers.
Horse droppings. The greatest evil on this planet is blind hate - something which I suspect is in you, based on the many hateful posts which you make here with such regularity on this subforum.

Once again you're being dropped back into Coventry because debate with you is pointless.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.
 
Your post is without morality and despicable. The Jews have been through millennia of escalating persecution and murder, peaking in the Holocaust and now continuing. A demand for a cease-fire after the murder and rape-fest of October 7 lacks any degree of decency. No people should have to put up with what the Jews have suffered; and yet they can continue to contribute life and accomplishment to the world.

What have the killers accomplished? Nothing other than imposing misery and death on their own innocent civilians.
 
Sorry but just like @Surrealistik and many others here who either like your inhuman and horrifyingly bloodthirsty posts or echo the same feelings of support for terrorism and antisemitism, your agenda is nothing but hateful warmongering disguised in colors of far-left activism that pretends to be about progressive values. You pretend you're about something else but then you spew such barbaric rethoric that cannot be mistaken for anything else than the ideas that were so popular in Europe of the 1930s.

There's nothing progressive in calling for the world to gang up on the single Jewish state that defends itself against barbarism and wage a war of aggression against it, or ignoring that Israel only fights those who seek to harm its citizens.
It's antisemitism pure and simple, you wish to destroy the Jewish state and you wish others to do it for you because you won't even risk your own life (quite cowardly in my opinion).
You're also calling for others to lose their lives fighting Israel forcing it to defend itself against them in the name of terrorist, neo-Nazi or generally antisemitic values.
I asked you to name the country that you believe is stupid enough to go to war with Israel because it cannot accept the fact that Israel is defending itself when attacked. You couldn't even do that. This is how low and idiotic your position is, there's no hope of creating any intelligent discussion with someone who is capable of forming such tremendously stupid arguments as "the world needs to gang up on Israel because I don't agree with its democratically elected regime's decision to defend their citizens".

Finally - I'm no brother to anyone who openly calls for and promotes war against my country. Seek your brothers in the Taliban or among al-Qaeda members.
 
JBG said:
One biased man's opinion.

Next.
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Biased against the deliberate murder of pre-teen aged children.
Would your reaction be different if it were Jewish children being deliberately murdered?

https://mronline.org/2024/10/11/isr...iberately-shoot-palestinian-kids-in-the-head/

"There’s yet another doctors’ testimony about Israeli forces constantly shooting Palestinian children in the head, this one published in The New York Times.

"The report, titled “65 Doctors, Nurses and Paramedics: What We Saw in Gaza,” begins as follows..."
 
Why have Jews been subjected to thousands of years of persecution and murder? The last century of Zionist inflicted terror in Palestine offers a few possible explanations such as a racist belief in white supremacy:

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2019/1/9/the-zionist-fallacy-of-jewish-supremacy

"Zionism is a racist and settler colonialist movement, which opportunistically coopts aspects of Judaism in an attempt to justify its criminal practices of apartheid and genocide of indigenous Palestinians.

"White supremacy is dominant within Israeli society, which privileges white-skinned Ashkenazi Jews at the expense of dark-skinned African Jews, Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews as well as African refugees.

"African/black Jewish communities are often denied recognition by Israeli authorities with some members even deported."
 
You need a leader who'll speak like this:









Unfortunately - we have a lot of morons in the UN.
 
The extermination of tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Gaza, the purposeful targeting of the Gaza health system, the systematic and continual denial of food and potable water to the whole Gaza population, the purposeful post-combat demolition of Gazan homes and public service buildings by Israeli military personnel and the concealment of bombs as consumer electronics in Lebanon are acts carried out at scales which far outweigh the criminal atrocities planned and executed by Hamas and other Palestinian militant terrorists on Oct. 7th. The fact that you choose to ignore the scale and wickedness of the State of Israel's vicious assaults on captive civilian populations in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Lebanon, Syria and most recently Iran indicates that the morality which you advocate for devalues Arab lives and raises Israeli lives to a higher level. All innocent civilian lives are of equal value. As for your accusation of despicability, I will not engage you in tit-for-tat insulting and will instead point out again that all innocent civilian life is of equal value. The Holocaust was a real and horrendous genocide and was one of the most evil mass crimes of the 20th Century. However that ultimate crime was committed by Europeans and not by Arabs. Invoking European mass murder to justify Israelis massacring innocent Arab civilians is an insane argument. Those same Europeans had and still have a long tradition of encouraging and intimidating Jews to leave parts of Europe before and after WWII. It was more European anti-semitism and opportunism which drove the migration of European Jews to the Levant and which set the stage for the mass expulsions and killings of innocent Middle Eastern Jews and Arabs from 1947 onwards. More suffering for the Middle Eastern population caused by the arrogance and racism of Europeans. No Arabs were involved effectively in these geo-political decisions which cursed their land with more than 75 years of colonialism, strife, war and misery at the hands of desperate and traumatized European Jews invading the Middle East for the illusion of safety. Had they come to Canada or America they would have been much better off.
JBG said:
What have the killers accomplished? Nothing other than imposing misery and death on their own innocent civilians.
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The militant/terrorists have brought out into the light of day the brutality of Israeli military occupation in the Palestinian Occupied Territories by the present-day far-right government of the State of Israel for all the world to see. The methods they used were awful atrocities and crimes against humanity which cannot be dismissed nor forgiven but the atrocities of the present-day State of Israel are an order of magnitude greater/worse and now are on the cusp of becoming genocide. There are no good actors in this cauldron of ethno-religious hate and denied land rights. All sides have the blood of innocents on their hands but one side has far more blood to account for.

Your objections are based on what I consider to be an ahistorical and a superficial view of the Arab-Israeli conflict, but maybe I have misread your position.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.
 
More two-faced yadda, yadda, yadda to cover up a rabidly militaristic state's forever-war-mentality. Canada is not at war. Here we live in peace as best as we can, even with those who threaten our country's continued existence. The State of Israel has been at war since its creation and many of those wars have been wars of choice by the State of Israel itself. The lies told by militant Zionist apologists are transparent and unconvincing.

Be well, be safe and perhaps re-read this subforums rules of conduct.
Evilroddy.
 
A warmonger who calls for war and tries to send others to die in his name and in the name of his antisemitic ideology in such a cowardly fashion should be embarrassed to reply further.

Israel may be in a state of war since its reestablishment and may be forced to maintain that state for a long time due to the intentions of the enemies that surround it to destroy it.
The good thing about Israelis however is that they don't roll over and die just because some hateful people expect them to.
 

I was born one year after WWII ended, after my dad came home from fighting in Eurpope and got right down to business. I grew up during the years when we thought that surely after the horrors of the war and the unspeakable barbarity of killing six million Jews in an effort to exterminate them that we would never see that kind of evil again. How wrong we were. We discovered that killing Jews is the mandatory element of a religion with over 1,000,000,000 members worldwide. Islam is a religion/ideology that was formed specifically to kill Jews, everything else is just detail.
 
Evilroddy said:
Nothing in and nothing out. If the present State of Israel responds militarily, then massive military responses against the present State of Israel's military infrastructure should be used.
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They disagree.

Evilroddy said:
The fact that you choose to ignore the scale and wickedness
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Wickedness?

Evilroddy said:
of the State of Israel's vicious assaults on captive civilian populations in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, Lebanon, Syria and most recently Iran
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They have not attacked Iran.


The state if Israel should value its citizens more.

The Middle East only for Arabs? Don't tell the Egyptians, Turks, or Iranians.

Good luck with that.
 
To all:

Please reread my post #26 above and then read this quotation. I advocated for non-military political, legal and economic action to force the change by the Israeli people of the present-day State of Israel for the war crimes, crimes against humanity, possible genocide and unfettered military action that state is waging all around its frontiers. I cautioned that military force should only be used if, and only if, the State of Israel elected to use military force first against surrounding sovereign states which elected to close their borders and refuse that militarised rogue state trade and resources because of its disproportionate killing of innocent civilians until the people of Israel change their governing regime. The quoted poster immediately asserted that my advocacy for surrounding sovereign states to deny the State of Israel trade and resources was warmongering and that this poster (me) was advocating that I wished to send others to die in my name. This strongly implies that the quoted poster would elect to use military force first against any other state which exercises its sovereign right to not trade and supply the present-day State of Israel. Peaceful non-cooperation by other states is thus the only excuse this quoted poster needs to widen Israel's wars and increase the body count in the Middle East. His conclusion - I am the warmonger. His conclusion - that surrounding sovereign states do not have the sovereign right to peacefully isolate the present-day State of Israel for the violence and wanton killing it is meting out to innocent civilians. and that if those surrounding sovereign states elect to do so, there will be war - more war. His conclusion - that advocacy for protecting innocent civilian lives being killed in the tens of thousands by the present-day State of Israel is an anti-semitic ideology and a position which only cowards would take. His conclusion - that mere proximity of surrounding states which oppose the State of Israel's policies and militarism is tantamount to wanting to destroy the Israeli nation and people. His final conclusion - that good Israelis don't roll over and die because it is hateful to refuse to trade and support a regime which kills innocent civilians by the tens of thousands, seriously wounds them by the hundreds of thousands, de-houses them by the millions and starves then by the millions.

This is the warped thinking that characterises militant Zionism, puts an idolatrous State of Israel before G-d, kills wantonly in the service of that false idol and worships death and the killing of "others" who live in their midst. When confronted with facts and positions which threaten the militant Zionist project, they lash out with character assassination, lies and threats of overwhelming violence and vow to fight violently against even peaceful measures designed to temper the state violence and state terrorism which militant Zionists hold so close to their violent spirits.

No. I am not embarrassed to reply further and will do so in this and other threads despite the bully-boy tactics adopted by certain posters here. What the present-day State of Israel is doing now is wrong and I will call it out. So you all had better get used to it.

Israel is not Judaism. Zionism is not Judaism. Most Jews are not militant Zionists. Most Arabs/Muslims are not terrorists. However militant Zionists would have you believe otherwise as it serves their expansionist and hegemonic agenda.

Be well, be safe and be warned.
Evilroddy.
 

Ganondagan:

It was Christian and secular Europeans who killed Jews by the millions, not Muslims. It was the British Empire which killed millions of people in India, not the Muslims. It was Europeans and Americans who killed Koreans by the millions, not Muslims, It was Americans who killed Indochinese (Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians) by the millions, not Muslims. It was Cambodians who killed more millions of Cambodians, not Muslims. It was Chinese who killed Chinese by the millions, not Muslims. The hands of Islam are by no means clean, but they killed Jews by the thousands while Europeans killed Jews by the millions throughout the years through which Islam has existed.

That billion plus member religion doing the killing was Christianity, not Islam. History and its detail prove you wrong.

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.
 
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