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The Debt Ceiling is the Law of the Land

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The Debt Ceiling is the Law of the Land | RedState

Over the past few weeks, Democrats have indicated that they have no intention of negotiating over Obamacare, opting instead to shut down the government. They are justifying their obstinacy by asserting that Obamacare is the law of the land. Well, if that is the game they want to play, we should return the favor with the debt ceiling. The debt ceiling, pursuant to the Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917, is the law of the land. And it has been so for far longer than Obamacare.

Throughout this debate over funding Obamacare in the budget bill, House GOP leaders have stressed how the debt ceiling was the more appropriate means of fighting Obamacare. After all, it was “the next fight.” But as if on cue, some Republicans are already using the same Democrat talking points about the risk of default.

We are going to hear this erroneous talking point propagated by both parties over the next few weeks, so let’s put the myth to rest. The only way we default on the debt is if we fail to pay the interest on the public debt. According to the updated budget projection from the CBO, interest on the debt will be roughly $237 billion for 2014. Thanks to the short-term revenue benefits of the fiscal cliff and Obamacare tax hikes, the federal government is expected to rake in a record $3.042 trillion from the private economy this year.

snip
 
The problem is the Progressives in the Federal Government want to spend even more money on the under-privileged and deprived and especially those who are not really entitled to anything (illegals) in their hopes to purchase another unqualified person an 8 year stint as the Commander in Chief.
 
Both parties are simply grandstanding...in the end, everyone will get back pay for hours lost, fees collected that were due, and tax rebates on pay donated to charity. In the end, this shut down will put us further in debt. Both sides know this. Neither ae addressing it. Why? Because both sides are pursuing the same agenda.
 
I think Federal overspending comes down to wants and needs.
Only those expenditures expressly defined in the Constitution are the needs,
the rest are just wants.
Out elected officials do not seem to know the difference.
Our form of Government (A Constitutional Representative Republic),
is not charted for ether charity or compassion, for our Government to engage
in ether is outside the scope of the constitution.
 
Over the past few weeks, Democrats have indicated that they have no intention of negotiating over Obamacare, opting instead to shut down the government.

Yet another silly con post that pretends that republicans threatening to destroy the economy if they don’t get their way is “negotiating” and that republicans didn’t block all budget conferences the last 6 months.

so read this slowly cons: Republicans blocked all budget conferences the last 6 months. You just don’t get to pretend pubs want to negotiate anything.

and silly con, the treasury doesnt get to pick and choose which bill it wants to pay. So the treasury ignoring all the other bills to simply pay interest on the debt is just as asinine as when you silly cons believed that President Obama was born in Kenya. Which brings up another point. How many lies do cons have to be fed before they realize they are being played for fools?
 
Yet another silly con post that pretends that republicans threatening to destroy the economy if they don’t get their way is “negotiating” and that republicans didn’t block all budget conferences the last 6 months.

so read this slowly cons: Republicans blocked all budget conferences the last 6 months. You just don’t get to pretend pubs want to negotiate anything.

and silly con, the treasury doesnt get to pick and choose which bill it wants to pay. So the treasury ignoring all the other bills to simply pay interest on the debt is just as asinine as when you silly cons believed that President Obama was born in Kenya. Which brings up another point. How many lies do cons have to be fed before they realize they are being played for fools?

Of course Republicans refused to negotiate on the budget until now. Until now, they didn't have the leverage of shutting down the government.
 
Yet another silly con post that pretends that republicans threatening to destroy the economy if they don’t get their way is “negotiating” and that republicans didn’t block all budget conferences the last 6 months.

so read this slowly cons: Republicans blocked all budget conferences the last 6 months. You just don’t get to pretend pubs want to negotiate anything.

and silly con, the treasury doesnt get to pick and choose which bill it wants to pay. So the treasury ignoring all the other bills to simply pay interest on the debt is just as asinine as when you silly cons believed that President Obama was born in Kenya. Which brings up another point. How many lies do cons have to be fed before they realize they are being played for fools?

:roll: And why were those conferences blocked? Do you even do the research?
 
Yet another silly con post that pretends that republicans threatening to destroy the economy if they don’t get their way is “negotiating” and that republicans didn’t block all budget conferences the last 6 months.

so read this slowly cons: Republicans blocked all budget conferences the last 6 months. You just don’t get to pretend pubs want to negotiate anything.

and silly con, the treasury doesnt get to pick and choose which bill it wants to pay. So the treasury ignoring all the other bills to simply pay interest on the debt is just as asinine as when you silly cons believed that President Obama was born in Kenya. Which brings up another point. How many lies do cons have to be fed before they realize they are being played for fools?


Quick Vern, grab the estimate for your ObamaCare and run to the mirror.

See that look on your face? Who's the fool now?
 
Quick Vern, grab the estimate for your ObamaCare and run to the mirror.

See that look on your face? Who's the fool now?

what an incredibly juvenile and deflecting response. So I guess we wont be discussing the lies in your editorial that republicans want to negotiate and that the treasury can pick and choose what bills it wants to pay.

Lets try something different. Instead of me proving your latest (and conveniently vague) delusion is just another republican lie, lets work with it. Usually I shred a silly con delusion and then the con whines and whines that I didn’t shred it. It actually gets kind of sad the way your kind will cling to a delusion long after I shred it. Lets pretend (as you already do) that the estimates for Obamacare are wrong and it will cost more or increase the deficit or whatever your vague point was.

whats worse for the economy, a program that may cost more than estimated to help 30 million people who could not afford healthcare or who were simply denied health care and help stem the steady increase in Healthcare’s bite out of our GDP or defaulting on the debt and plunging our economy into recession or possibly worse?

See, in context with republicans willing to destroy the economy even your delusional beliefs about Obamacare simply do not justify the risk to the economy. And Obamacare reduces the deficit so the republican to destroy the economy is even more ridiculous. And again, the people lying to you about Obamacare are the same liars who told you that President was born in Kenya. Remember how absolutely positive you were that he was born in Kenya?

Here’s the 2010 estimate of Obamacare:

"Estimated Budgetary Impact of the Legislation:
CBO and JCT estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation—H.R. 3590 and the reconciliation proposal—would produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010–2019 period as result of changes in direct spending and revenues (see Table 1)."
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/Manager'sAmendmenttoReconciliationProposal.pdf

Here’s the letter the CBO sent to Boehner about one of the 40 bills to repeal Obamacare. It was about the time you silly cons were told the cost of Obamacare had doubled.

“Assuming that H.R. 6079 is enacted near the beginning of fiscal year 2013,CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting that legislation would cause a net increase in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2013–2022 period (see Table 1).
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43471-hr6079.pdf
 
what an incredibly juvenile and deflecting response. So I guess we wont be discussing the lies in your editorial that republicans want to negotiate and that the treasury can pick and choose what bills it wants to pay.

Lets try something different. Instead of me proving your latest (and conveniently vague) delusion is just another republican lie, lets work with it. Usually I shred a silly con delusion and then the con whines and whines that I didn’t shred it. It actually gets kind of sad the way your kind will cling to a delusion long after I shred it. Lets pretend (as you already do) that the estimates for Obamacare are wrong and it will cost more or increase the deficit or whatever your vague point was.

whats worse for the economy, a program that may cost more than estimated to help 30 million people who could not afford healthcare or who were simply denied health care and help stem the steady increase in Healthcare’s bite out of our GDP or defaulting on the debt and plunging our economy into recession or possibly worse?

See, in context with republicans willing to destroy the economy even your delusional beliefs about Obamacare simply do not justify the risk to the economy. And Obamacare reduces the deficit so the republican to destroy the economy is even more ridiculous. And again, the people lying to you about Obamacare are the same liars who told you that President was born in Kenya. Remember how absolutely positive you were that he was born in Kenya?

Here’s the 2010 estimate of Obamacare:

"Estimated Budgetary Impact of the Legislation:
CBO and JCT estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation—H.R. 3590 and the reconciliation proposal—would produce a net reduction in federal deficits of $143 billion over the 2010–2019 period as result of changes in direct spending and revenues (see Table 1)."
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/Manager'sAmendmenttoReconciliationProposal.pdf

Here’s the letter the CBO sent to Boehner about one of the 40 bills to repeal Obamacare. It was about the time you silly cons were told the cost of Obamacare had doubled.

“Assuming that H.R. 6079 is enacted near the beginning of fiscal year 2013,CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting that legislation would cause a net increase in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2013–2022 period (see Table 1).
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43471-hr6079.pdf

If insuring 30 million (much less the 42 million previously stated) was the 'real' plan, all the was need was an expansion of Medicare/Medicaid not, several 1000 pages of legislation that amount to the greatest tax increase in world history and government control over 1/6 of our economy.

Now come the lies.
 
The Debt Ceiling is the Law of the Land | RedState

Over the past few weeks, Democrats have indicated that they have no intention of negotiating over Obamacare, opting instead to shut down the government. They are justifying their obstinacy by asserting that Obamacare is the law of the land. Well, if that is the game they want to play, we should return the favor with the debt ceiling. The debt ceiling, pursuant to the Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917, is the law of the land. And it has been so for far longer than Obamacare.

Throughout this debate over funding Obamacare in the budget bill, House GOP leaders have stressed how the debt ceiling was the more appropriate means of fighting Obamacare. After all, it was “the next fight.” But as if on cue, some Republicans are already using the same Democrat talking points about the risk of default.

We are going to hear this erroneous talking point propagated by both parties over the next few weeks, so let’s put the myth to rest. The only way we default on the debt is if we fail to pay the interest on the public debt. According to the updated budget projection from the CBO, interest on the debt will be roughly $237 billion for 2014. Thanks to the short-term revenue benefits of the fiscal cliff and Obamacare tax hikes, the federal government is expected to rake in a record $3.042 trillion from the private economy this year.

snip

This is true, to truly default we would have to stop paying our interest on the debt. However there's still an extremely big consequence for not raising the debt ceiling, which is that it will not allow for the creation of new debt which would mean that the FY14 budget could have no deficit whatsoever. Looking at the FY13 budget total revenue was 2,903 billion dollars or 2.9 trillion, total expenses were 3,803 billion or 3.8 trillion, that would mean the government would have to instantly cut 900 billion from its budget for FY14 if that budget looks the same whenever Congress passes one. And that's of course not counting money already spent.

That would be terrible in and of itself, and have an immediate and very damaging affect to our economy. I agree that the debt needs to be cut, but it should be a smooth downturn not a sudden halt. It would basically require shutting down roughly a quarter of the government instantly just to break even without bringing it back. I don't think any politician or any American wants to see what that would look like.
 
This is true, to truly default we would have to stop paying our interest on the debt. However there's still an extremely big consequence for not raising the debt ceiling, which is that it will not allow for the creation of new debt which would mean that the FY14 budget could have no deficit whatsoever. Looking at the FY13 budget total revenue was 2,903 billion dollars or 2.9 trillion, total expenses were 3,803 billion or 3.8 trillion, that would mean the government would have to instantly cut 900 billion from its budget for FY14 if that budget looks the same whenever Congress passes one. And that's of course not counting money already spent.

That would be terrible in and of itself, and have an immediate and very damaging affect to our economy. I agree that the debt needs to be cut, but it should be a smooth downturn not a sudden halt. It would basically require shutting down roughly a quarter of the government instantly just to break even without bringing it back. I don't think any politician or any American wants to see what that would look like.

Botton line: We should have never gotten to this point or the level of debt.

Obama is responsible for nearly $6 trillion. Over $60 trillion in SS and Medicare liabilities that he said he won't address.

Yet we still have apologist aplenty.

IOWs we're pretty screwed.
 
Botton line: We should have never gotten to this point or the level of debt.

Obama is responsible for nearly $6 trillion. Over $60 trillion in SS and Medicare liabilities that he said he won't address.

Yet we still have apologist aplenty.

IOWs we're pretty screwed.
It's not as bad as all of that, The government has a plan.
Obamacare will gradually reduce life expectancies through the rationing of care,
thus reducing the amount of unfunded liabilities.
Don't you just like the way a plan comes together!!:mrgreen:
 
If insuring 30 million (much less the 42 million previously stated) was the 'real' plan, all the was need was an expansion of Medicare/Medicaid not, several 1000 pages of legislation that amount to the greatest tax increase in world history and government control over 1/6 of our economy..
yet another juvenile and deflecting post. The list of things you were eager to discuss but are no longer interested in continues to grow. Just for giggles, lets list the things you no longer wish to discuss

the false narrative that pubs want to negotiate
the false narrative that dems want to shut down the govt
the false narrative that the treasury can pick and chose what bills it will pay
the false narrative that its better to destroy the economy than fund Obamacare
(and new to the list)
the false (and still vague) narrative about Obamacare estimates

Again, instead of me proving your latest narrative is just the next string of words you literally just made up, lets work with your delusion. If all it took was simply expanding medicare/Medicaid then why didn’t the republicans propose that when A they were in complete control or B as an alternative to Obamacare. Remember, they spared no integrity in attacking Obamacare and yet even they didn’t resort to such simpleton logic like you did. so obviously HC reform is more complex than the narrative you just invented would have anybody believe. hey, remember how absolutely positive you were that President Obama was born in Kenya?

Now like all cons who’s empty factless rhetoric I shred, you have to resort to ever more desperate and false hyperbole. Back up the “the greatest tax increase in world history”


Now come the lies.

what a childish (and wishful thinking) response. hyperbole, whining and magic 'facts' are all you can post.
 
Why simply mimic something from the right wing talk media echo chamber?

Original thought is much more stimulating for discussion. As such, if perception is that the U.S. will not pay its bills (on time or at all) then laws of the land will mean nothing when the stock market craters, banks fail, and our treasury bonds are dumped on the open market for pennies on the dollar. No gasoline at the pumps and no food on the shelves will be the result of the full realization that money is simply useless paper without any credit rating behind it. Then tell us about laws of the land and how easy it is to pay interest on bonds that have become worthless.

Trying to balance the budget is a noble goal. Refusing to pay bills that have already been contractually agreed upon is fraud. Or bankruptcy. In this particular case it is the former, and the Congressmen who are refusing to pay should be civilly or criminally charged appropriately.
 
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Botton line: We should have never gotten to this point or the level of debt.

Obama is responsible for nearly $6 trillion. Over $60 trillion in SS and Medicare liabilities that he said he won't address.

Yet we still have apologist aplenty.

IOWs we're pretty screwed.

Hmmm, I wonder if any economic event around 2007-2008 had anything to do the debt. I guess if it had you would have discovered that by now, right?
 
yet another juvenile and deflecting post. The list of things you were eager to discuss but are no longer interested in continues to grow. Just for giggles, lets list the things you no longer wish to discuss

the false narrative that pubs want to negotiate
the false narrative that dems want to shut down the govt
the false narrative that the treasury can pick and chose what bills it will pay
the false narrative that its better to destroy the economy than fund Obamacare
(and new to the list)
the false (and still vague) narrative about Obamacare estimates

Again, instead of me proving your latest narrative is just the next string of words you literally just made up, lets work with your delusion. If all it took was simply expanding medicare/Medicaid then why didn’t the republicans propose that when A they were in complete control or B as an alternative to Obamacare. Remember, they spared no integrity in attacking Obamacare and yet even they didn’t resort to such simpleton logic like you did. so obviously HC reform is more complex than the narrative you just invented would have anybody believe. hey, remember how absolutely positive you were that President Obama was born in Kenya?

Now like all cons who’s empty factless rhetoric I shred, you have to resort to ever more desperate and false hyperbole. Back up the “the greatest tax increase in world history”




what a childish (and wishful thinking) response. hyperbole, whining and magic 'facts' are all you can post.

Well since you can do nothing but string together insults and innuendo, (as most liberal resort to) I don't believe I care to read your partisan squalor any longer.

You have a nice day now, hear. FOS as Christmas goose
 
Hmmm, I wonder if any economic event around 2007-2008 had anything to do the debt. I guess if it had you would have discovered that by now, right?

Yep those Clinton policies of making banks give out loans to people who couldn't pay did come home to roost, didn't they?
 
Why simply mimic something from the right wing talk media echo chamber?

Original thought is much more stimulating for discussion. As such, if perception is that the U.S. will not pay its bills (on time or at all) then laws of the land will mean nothing when the stock market craters, banks fail, and our treasury bonds are dumped on the open market for pennies on the dollar. No gasoline at the pumps and no food on the shelves will be the result of the full realization that money is simply useless paper without any credit rating behind it. Then tell us about laws of the land and how easy it is to pay interest on bonds that have become worthless.

Trying to balance the budget is a noble goal. Refusing to pay bills that have already been contractually agreed upon is fraud. Or bankruptcy. In this particular case it is the former, and the Congressmen who are refusing to pay should be civilly or criminally charged appropriately.

Obama's not going to allow default. He would look very unpresidential in doing so and lose all credibility. (and that 37% approval rate would seem high in comparison)

Although he didn't blink when we lost our AAA rating. hummm...

Congress can write that check for the interest payment at any time. We have plenty of money to cover it.

Glad to see you Progressives are seeing the frailty of your policies and showing actual concern for the future of this country though. That's a good thing.
 
Yep those Clinton policies of making banks give out loans to people who couldn't pay did come home to roost, didn't they?

So something did happen! Yeah, I sort of remember an important economic event that affected the deficit in 2007-2008. And you think it was Clinton's doing, huh? Hmmm, I thought somebody else was president after him.

Maybe you should google that.
 
Well since you can do nothing but string together insults and innuendo, (as most liberal resort to) I don't believe I care to read your partisan squalor any longer.

You have a nice day now, hear. FOS as Christmas goose

I didn't cut and run because you insulted me. why do you feel the need to cut and run? oh yea, I shredded your silly and false narratives. You mindlessly posted a lying editorial that told you what you wanted to hear. And every time I called out your falsehoods your ran and hid behind yet another delusion. You've backed nothing up. I at least backed up the fact that Obamacare reduces the deficit (hey! reducing the deficit was the excuse that cons used last time pubs threatened to destroy the economy). Here's a letter from the Inspector General of the Treasury Dept telling pubs that "paying the debt first" is just like everything you posted, nothing but fantasy.

Prioritization of Payments

Treasury officials stated that Treasury also reviewed the idea of attempting to prioritize the many payments made by the federal government each day. Treasury noted that it makes more than 80 million payments per month, all of which have been authorized and appropriated by Congress. According to a Treasury official, the payments cover a broad spectrum of purposes deemed important by Congress. While Congress enacted these expenditures, it did not prioritize them, nor did it direct the President or the Treasury to pay some expenses and not pay others. As a result, Treasury officials determined that there is no fair or sensible way to pick and choose among the many bills that come due every day. Furthermore, because Congress has never provided guidance to the contrary, Treasury’s systems are designed to make each payment in the order it comes due.


http://www.treasury.gov/about/organ...ebt Limit Response (Final with Signature).pdf

so that shreds a key part of the lying editorial you mindlessly posted (honestly, what would cons post if it wasn't for lying editorials). And here's some good news for you silly con. I'm the resident expert of the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Yea, you wont like this thread either

Q When did the Bush Mortgage Bubble start?

A The general timeframe is it started late 2004.

From Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress update.pdf
 
So something did happen! Yeah, I sort of remember an important economic event that affected the deficit in 2007-2008. And you think it was Clinton's doing, huh? Hmmm, I thought somebody else was president after him.

Maybe you should google that.

Oh you mean that globalist compassionate dude? He actually tried to stem the tide of that fork up but, Congress wasn't impressed.

Thus the meltdown, bubble burst or whatever you want to call it.

BTW: chances are that will happen again but, worse.
 
I didn't cut and run because you insulted me. why do you feel the need to cut and run? oh yea, I shredded your silly and false narratives. You mindlessly posted a lying editorial that told you what you wanted to hear. And every time I called out your falsehoods your ran and hid behind yet another delusion. You've backed nothing up. I at least backed up the fact that Obamacare reduces the deficit (hey! reducing the deficit was the excuse that cons used last time pubs threatened to destroy the economy). Here's a letter from the Inspector General of the Treasury Dept telling pubs that "paying the debt first" is just like everything you posted, nothing but fantasy.

Prioritization of Payments

Treasury officials stated that Treasury also reviewed the idea of attempting to prioritize the many payments made by the federal government each day. Treasury noted that it makes more than 80 million payments per month, all of which have been authorized and appropriated by Congress. According to a Treasury official, the payments cover a broad spectrum of purposes deemed important by Congress. While Congress enacted these expenditures, it did not prioritize them, nor did it direct the President or the Treasury to pay some expenses and not pay others. As a result, Treasury officials determined that there is no fair or sensible way to pick and choose among the many bills that come due every day. Furthermore, because Congress has never provided guidance to the contrary, Treasury’s systems are designed to make each payment in the order it comes due.


http://www.treasury.gov/about/organ...ebt Limit Response (Final with Signature).pdf

so that shreds a key part of the lying editorial you mindlessly posted (honestly, what would cons post if it wasn't for lying editorials). And here's some good news for you silly con. I'm the resident expert of the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Yea, you wont like this thread either

If want to do some shredding, my yard needs mowing really bad.

But, if you screw that up, you won't be paid. :lamo
 
Originally Posted by Vern
As a result, Treasury officials determined that there is no fair or sensible way to pick and choose among the many bills that come due every day.

Easy answer - fire them all and hire folks who can do the job.
 
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