The dangers of youth abstinence pledges are becoming clear

[Loulit01]

It's funny how STD prevalence is much lower in Western Europe where abstinence is less of a big deal

STD Rates by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

Fact.

 

[Loulit01]

Which is why I clearly state, "Something created by God to bond a man and his wife together with a unique degree of intimacy."


You've already stated this, and you're ignoring my counterarguments.


You're wrong. Morality is no more subjective than gravity.

We break God's Law, we get sexual disease, dysfunction, broken families, abortions, misery, suffering, and death. Open your eyes to the world around you.

You're wrong. Morality is no more subjective than gravity.
-------------------
You're standing at a railroad junction. A train is bearing down on 5 people chained to the track. They're going to die.

But if you throw the switch at the junction the train will veer to another track where there are only 2 chained people who will die.

What is the moral thing to do?

 

[joko104]

It's funny how STD prevalence is much lower in Western Europe where abstinence is less of a big deal

STD Rates by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

What are their promiscuity rates? How do they know where each country is in the abstinence to free sex promiscuity?

 

[SmartCat]

The Hidden Agenda of the Political Mind: How Self-Interest Shapes Our Opinions, And Why We Won't Admit It, by Jason Weeden and Robert Kurzban discusses ways people differ, and the effect it has on their voting behavior. One way people differ is in sexual behavior. Some people enjoy casual sex and sexual variety, and have little or no interest in getting married. The authors call these people "Freewheelers." Other people are the opposite. The authors call these people "Ring Bearers."

The authors get their data on sexual behavior and preference from the U.S. General Social Survey, combining years 2002 to 2012. There were 16, individuals in this study. According to this study:

"for those who had prior sex partners and who lived together before getting engaged, the ten-year divorce rate is over 40%; among those where virgins until around the time they married, the ten-year diverse rate is tiny, less than 15%."

The authors also write:

"39% of American adults are Freewhelers, 34% are Ring Bearers, and 27% are in the middle."

Although the authors do not point this out, plenty of evidence exists that children who are raised to adulthood by both biological parents living together in matrimony tend to have many fewer problems in life than other children.

16 was a typographical error on my part. Actually, there were 16,128 individuals in the U.S. General Social Survey.

 

[Masterhawk]

What are their promiscuity rates? How do they know where each country is in the abstinence to free sex promiscuity?

That's a bit hard to measure but what I do know is that Western Europe has a less negative view of premarital sex when compared to the US.

Global Views on Morality

web.archive.org

And yet in every western european country except the UK, the teen pregnancy rate was less than half as high. And in the Netherlands which perhaps has the most comprehensive sex ed, the pregnancy rate is very low.

Adolescent Pregnancy and Its Outcomes Across Countries

• Contraceptive use among adolescents is increasing in many countries, as is age at first marriage. Rates of adolescent childbearing have also dropped significantly in many countries and regions over the last few decades.1 • In some regions of the world, however, early childbearing remains...

www.guttmacher.org

 

[joko104]

That's a bit hard to measure but what I do know is that Western Europe has a less negative view of premarital sex when compared to the US.

Global Views on Morality

web.archive.org

And yet in every western european country except the UK, the teen pregnancy rate was less than half as high. And in the Netherlands which perhaps has the most comprehensive sex ed, the pregnancy rate is very low.

Adolescent Pregnancy and Its Outcomes Across Countries

• Contraceptive use among adolescents is increasing in many countries, as is age at first marriage. Rates of adolescent childbearing have also dropped significantly in many countries and regions over the last few decades.1 • In some regions of the world, however, early childbearing remains...

www.guttmacher.org

There are to many variables to make a comparison. What percentage of the population in Europe are illegal immigrants? What is the marriage rate? Birth rate? The list is long.

Emerging Europe’s analysis of the data reveals a massive 55 per cent decrease in the population of the region by 2100, from 185.35 million people to just 83.25 million.

Is emerging Europe's population really set to fall more than 50 per cent by 2100? - Emerging Europe

What will emerging Europe look like in 2100? This question has tentatively captured the imaginations of politicians, economists, and social scientists alike for some time now, and all point to an overwhelming trend – a much more sparsely populated region. While the decrease in size of some...

emerging-europe.com

 

[COTO]

There are to many variables to make a comparison. What percentage of the population in Europe are illegal immigrants? What is the marriage rate? Birth rate? The list is long.

Emerging Europe’s analysis of the data reveals a massive 55 per cent decrease in the population of the region by 2100, from 185.35 million people to just 83.25 million.

Is emerging Europe's population really set to fall more than 50 per cent by 2100? - Emerging Europe

What will emerging Europe look like in 2100? This question has tentatively captured the imaginations of politicians, economists, and social scientists alike for some time now, and all point to an overwhelming trend – a much more sparsely populated region. While the decrease in size of some...

emerging-europe.com

Huge cultural differences too.

 

[COTO]

You're wrong. Morality is no more subjective than gravity.
-------------------
You're standing at a railroad junction. A train is bearing down on 5 people chained to the track. They're going to die.

But if you throw the switch at the junction the train will veer to another track where there are only 2 chained people who will die.

What is the moral thing to do?

I can appreciate your desire to delve into deeper moral hypotheticals, but they really aren't on topic here.

For this thread, suffice it to say that I'm asserting premarital sex is unconditionally immoral and harmful (both to the individual and to society), and @roguenuke vehemently disagrees.

 

[Loulit01]

I can appreciate your desire to delve into deeper moral hypotheticals, but they really aren't on topic here.

For this thread, suffice it to say that I'm asserting premarital sex is unconditionally immoral and harmful (both to the individual and to society), and @roguenuke vehemently disagrees.

That's how it started, but if you want to say "premarital sex is unconditionally immoral," we need to define who gets to decide what is and isn't moral.

If you say, "Morality is no more subjective than gravity." You have to explain why. You have taken us down a philosophical rabbit hole whether you intended to or not.

My post was meant to shed a little light on what we here believe is moral. Thus my post is squarely on point.

 

[joko104]

Emerging Europe’s analysis of the data reveals a massive 55 per cent decrease in the population of the region by 2100, from 185.35 million people to just 83.25 million.

Is emerging Europe's population really set to fall more than 50 per cent by 2100? - Emerging Europe

What will emerging Europe look like in 2100? This question has tentatively captured the imaginations of politicians, economists, and social scientists alike for some time now, and all point to an overwhelming trend – a much more sparsely populated region. While the decrease in size of some...

emerging-europe.com

That's how it started, but if you want to say "premarital sex is unconditionally immoral," we need to define who gets to decide what is and isn't moral.

If you say, "Morality is no more subjective than gravity." You have to explain why. You have taken us down a philosophical rabbit hole whether you intended to or not.

My post was meant to shed a little light on what we here believe is moral. Thus my post is squarely on point.

Is your position that who should decide if premarital sex is immoral are 11 year old girls and 12 year old boys, correct? Or is it their teachers? Or their parents?

 

[Loulit01]

Is your position that who should decide if premarital sex is immoral are 11 year old girls and 12 year old boys, correct? Or is it their teachers? Or their parents?

I wasn't speaking of children, just consenting adults. Could frame your question about children more clearly and try not to put words in my mouth?

 

[Masterhawk]

There are to many variables to make a comparison. What percentage of the population in Europe are illegal immigrants? What is the marriage rate? Birth rate? The list is long.

Emerging Europe’s analysis of the data reveals a massive 55 per cent decrease in the population of the region by 2100, from 185.35 million people to just 83.25 million.

Is emerging Europe's population really set to fall more than 50 per cent by 2100? - Emerging Europe

What will emerging Europe look like in 2100? This question has tentatively captured the imaginations of politicians, economists, and social scientists alike for some time now, and all point to an overwhelming trend – a much more sparsely populated region. While the decrease in size of some...

emerging-europe.com

Before, you were saying that comprehensive sex ed would lead to higher teen pregnancy rates and STD prevalence. Now that I proved you wrong, you say that there are too many different factors for an accurate comparison and now you're jumping to fertility rates.

Fertility rates tend to be lower in developed regions because of various factors but the point here is that Europe's low fertility rate is not abnormal.

If you really care about fertility rates, you might want other countries to do what France is doing

France’s baby boom secret: get women into work and ditch rigid family norms

Gender equality, pro-child policies and generous childcare provision are all bolstering French fertility rates rather than hindering them

www.theguardian.com