The country that controls the social media of another country owns it.

[craig]

Is this how modern wars are fought? "Our people are wearing your blue jeans and listening to your music."

 

[Helix]

It would be one tool.

 

[The Mark]

Is this how modern wars are fought?

I don't think it's quite that simple.
But certainly if you somehow controlled the social media used in another nation you would have a propaganda platform to use.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It would be one tool.

Yep. IMHO, a country dependent on imports for it’s energy or medical care (supply) needs is in greater peril, since one can easily live without access to foreign owned/controlled social media.

 

[Helix]

Yep. IMHO, a country dependent on imports for it’s energy or medical care (supply) needs is in greater peril, since one can easily live without access to foreign owned/controlled social media.

Energy is a national security issue, which is why I support using the public sector to make up the gaps in supply.

 

[phoenix2020]

Is this how modern wars are fought? "Our people are wearing your blue jeans and listening to your music."

No, this is how all wars are fought. Those of us who grew up in other countries where enormous monies were invested in us watching Hollywood movies, buying American products, reading American fashion magazines know that this is something that has been going on forever.

Why do you think there are so many pro-China action movies in theaters the past 15 years? You know, the ones where the Hollywood A-lister, on the brink of defeat, suddenly is rescued by their Chinese colleague of equal skill and greater humility, and together they defeat the Bad Guy using superior Chinese manufacturing capacity?

The only thing that has changed with social media is that the process is more structured and transactional.

 

[craig]

No, this is how all wars are fought. Those of us who grew up in other countries where enormous monies were invested in us watching Hollywood movies, buying American products, reading American fashion magazines know that this is something that has been going on forever.

Why do you think there are so many pro-China action movies in theaters the past 15 years? You know, the ones where the Hollywood A-lister, on the brink of defeat, suddenly is rescued by their Chinese colleague of equal skill and greater humility, and together they defeat the Bad Guy using superior Chinese manufacturing capacity?

The only thing that has changed with social media is that the process is more structured and transactional.

Then the real question is who is winning?

 

[phoenix2020]

Then the real question is who is winning?

China and the United States are both roughly tied in pole position. Obviously China edged ahead during the Trump years because who wants to rally behind an obese, adulterous idiot, but I think we have recovered back to parity especially since China really struggles with nuance in their PR. It also doesn’t help that India’s cultural influence continues to grow displacing pro-China mindshare and—as a secular democracy—their stories tend to taste better with global audiences.

I’m not really sure whom else is in the running. Europe obviously enjoyed its limelight with the centuries-long colonialism, but that also means most of the world isn’t terribly interested in the Euro way life and culture, even if we all still watch British crime procedurals and baking shows.

 

[craig]

China and the United States are both roughly tied in pole position. Obviously China edged ahead during the Trump years because who wants to rally behind an obese, adulterous idiot, but I think we have recovered back to parity especially since China really struggles with nuance in their PR. It also doesn’t help that India’s cultural influence continues to grow displacing pro-China mindshare and—as a secular democracy—their stories tend to taste better with global audiences.

I’m not really sure whom else is in the running. Europe obviously enjoyed its limelight with the centuries-long colonialism, but that also means most of the world isn’t terribly interested in the Euro way life and culture, even if we all still watch British crime procedurals and baking shows.

Yes China has a domestic audience larger than ours. But our influence on them is much greater than theirs on us. The rest of the world is the battle ground. There is no third culture that competes.

 

[Ug make hammer]

Energy is a national security issue, which is why I support using the public sector to make up the gaps in supply.

But that's Communism!

A public sector player in the industry is not communism, of course. But you might want to consider 51% public sector ownership, if only to cut the capital cost.

 

[craig]

Yep. IMHO, a country dependent on imports for it’s energy or medical care (supply) needs is in greater peril, since one can easily live without access to foreign owned/controlled social media.

That is not the OP. If you want to change the topic then post a new one.

 

[craig]

But that's Communism!

A public sector player in the industry is not communism, of course. But you might want to consider 51% public sector ownership, if only to cut the capital cost.

That is not the OP.

 

[ttwtt78640]

That is not the OP. If you want to change the topic then post a new one.

Don’t try to play moderator and tell me what I can or can’t post. If you think that my post violated a forum rule then report it, otherwise ignore it.

 

[craig]

Don’t try to play moderator and tell me what I can or can’t post. If you think that my post violated a forum rule then report it, otherwise ignore it.

Common curtesy. If derailing is your thing I can't stop you.

 

[Helix]

But that's Communism!

A public sector player in the industry is not communism, of course. But you might want to consider 51% public sector ownership, if only to cut the capital cost.

I want a public sector component so that it can increase production when the private sector starts manipulating supply to drive prices up.

 

[Evilroddy]

Is this how modern wars are fought? "Our people are wearing your blue jeans and listening to your music."

craig:

The word media is in plural form. No one country controls all the social media accessible in that country. Not even repressive regimes like China, Russia, Iran, Egypt and the State of Israel control the social media stream. Thus the real question is, "What level of social media dominance allows an adversarial state power to effectively influence another state's population reliably?". I do not know the answer to that question. But as long as peer-to-peer social media exists, then that level of domination will be higher as peers will jam the state dominated narratives. Ironically, it is so-called "liberal democracies" which are trying to suppress peer-to-peer social media as much as authoritarian states because a free exchange of ideas between people causes real problems for cloaked oligarchy as well as authoritarian regimes. This is because the notion of absolute truthes is an illusion. Truth is relative to condition and thus is not monolithic. Truth, in an absolute sense, does not exist. Truth is a fuzzy locus, not a discreet and well-delineated point.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[craig]

craig:

The word media is in plural form. No one country controls all the social media accessible in that country. Not even repressive regimes like China, Russia, Iran, Egypt and the State of Israel control the social media stream. Thus the real question is, "What level of social media dominance allows an adversarial state power to effectively influence another state's population reliably?". I do not know the answer to that question. But as long as peer-to-peer social media exists, then that level of domination will be higher as peers will jam the state dominated narratives. Ironically, it is so-called "liberal democracies" which are trying to suppress peer-to-peer social media as much as authoritarian states because a free exchange of ideas between people causes real problems for cloaked oligarchy as well as authoritarian regimes. This is because the notion of absolute truthes is an illusion. Truth is relative to condition and thus is not monolithic. Truth, in an absolute sense, does not exist. Truth is a fuzzy locus, not a discreet and well-delineated point.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Cultures are the competitors and social media in the broadest sense is how they do it. Countries are just the borders they reside in.

 

[Evilroddy]

I want a public sector component so that it can increase production when the private sector starts manipulating supply to drive prices up.

Helix:

Once, a long time ago, Canada had a solution for energy market manipulation which the world might think about copying. In the fossil fuels industry the Federal Government of Canada set up a competing crown-corporation called Petro-Canada for refining, distributing and selling oil and gasoline. The crown-corporation was a publicly-owned firm which was mandated to make a reasonable profit and it did. But it was fully vertically integrated from well-heads to gas stations and it could discipline the privately-controlled Canadian fuel market through competition, while making profits which went into public coffers. Its stations were everywhere in Canada. For years it was a tool of market moderation.

Finally however, continued political pressure from the corporate world (both Candian and from south of the border) about this crown-corporation's effect on "free markets" won out and a very pro-corporatist, conservative government privatised the crown-corporation, making it answerable to profit-hungry shareholders rather than the Government of Canada. Since then fuel prices have shot up far faster in Canada and have been far more volatile. Competition is the answer to such inflationary bouts but competition is just an illusion in too many markets today, which are rather driven by corporate collusion and oligopoly or monopolistic competition.

State-owned but profit-making mandated, publicly-owned companies, competing with private companies in key sectors of the energy economy is a solution to the hard-to-combat corporate collusion which is driving so much of today's inflation. But instead of using competition, states' central banks are following tight-money policies which slow down the whole economy, punish workers and consumers and toy with recession for the sake of the greed-based sins of corporate boards of directors and shareholders. The hierarchical pyramid-scheme persists.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

Cultures are the competitors and social media in the broadest sense is how they do it. Countries are just the borders they reside in.

craig:

I come from a multicultural country. There is really no fully dominant culture in Canada anymore and any vestige of dominance is decreasing year by year. How does that jive with your thesis?

Does America have a monoculture? I would say no, it doesn't. What say you?

At a very superficial level (and thus I could be very wrong here) your cultural thesis reminds me of Samuel P. Huntington's Clash of Civilisations (1993) and The Clash of Civilisations and Remaking the World Order (1996). These were rather dark books and were used by certain powerful people to justify somewhat Neo-colonial wars of intervention by the West in the Post Cold War period. Kulturkampf is a dangerous idea with tragic consequences wherever it has occurred.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Helix]

Helix:

Once, a long time ago, Canada had a solution for energy market manipulation which the world might think about copying. In the fossil fuels industry the Federal Government of Canada set up a competing crown-corporation called Petro-Canada for refining, distributing and selling oil and gasoline. The crown-corporation was a publicly-owned firm which was mandated to make a reasonable profit and it did. But it was fully vertically integrated from well-heads to gas stations and it could discipline the privately-controlled Canadian fuel market through competition, while making profits which went into public coffers. Its stations were everywhere in Canada. For years it was a tool of market moderation.

Finally however, continued political pressure from the corporate world (both Candian and from south of the border) about this crown-corporation's effect on "free markets" won out and a very pro-corporatist, conservative government privatised the crown-corporation, making it answerable to profit-hungry shareholders rather than the Government of Canada. Since then fuel prices have shot up far faster in Canada and have been far more volatile. Competition is the answer to such inflationary bouts but competition is just an illusion in too many markets today, which are rather driven by corporate collusion and oligopoly or monopolistic competition.

State-owned but profit-making mandated, publicly-owned companies, competing with private companies in key sectors of the energy economy is a solution to the hard-to-combat corporate collusion which is driving so much of today's inflation. But instead of using competition, states' central banks are following tight-money policies which slow down the whole economy, punish workers and consumers and toy with recession for the sake of the greed-based sins of corporate boards of directors and shareholders. The hierarchical pyramid-scheme persists.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Thanks for that info. I didn't realize that something similar had been tried before. I hope that it can happen again.

 

[craig]

craig:

I come from a multicultural country. There is really no fully dominant culture in Canada anymore and any vestige of dominance is decreasing year by year. How does that jive with your thesis?

Does America have a monoculture? I would say no, it doesn't. What say you?

At a very superficial level (and thus I could be very wrong here) your cultural thesis reminds me of Samuel P. Huntington's Clash of Civilisations (1993) and The Clash of Civilisations and Remaking the World Order (1996). These were rather dark books and were used by certain powerful people to justify somewhat Neo-colonial wars of intervention by the West in the Post a Cold War period. Kulturkampf is a dangerous idea with tragic consequences wherever it has occurred.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Distinct cultures can't coexist without conflict. When you say multicultural do you mean an amalgam of cultures evolving into a new culture. I know it is the old melting pot idea but I don't see any other choice with out conflict.

 

[Evilroddy]

Distinct cultures can't coexist without conflict. When you say multicultural do you mean an amalgam of cultures evolving into a new culture. I know it is the old melting pot idea but I don't see any other choice with out conflict.

craig:

No, I mean a multicultural country where many very different cultures coexist peacefully and productively. In Canada there are distinctive First Nations cultures, there are Wetern European cultures which are vestiges of colonialism, there are Eastern European cultures from mass migrations, there are Asian, African, Middle Eastern, Latin American and Caribbean cultures from decolonisation migrations. All of these cultures are well represented in Canada's many governments and all have a role in shaping public policy and a more nebulous "Canadian culture" based on giving every community the room to be themselves. It's not perfect by any means but it's working pretty well so far.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[craig]

craig:

No, I mean a multicultural country where many very different cultures coexist peacefully and productively. In Canada there are distinctive First Nations cultures, there are Wetern European cultures which are vestiges of colonialism, there are Eastern European cultures from mass migrations, there are Asian, African, Middle Eastern, Latin American and Caribbean cultures from decolonisation migrations. All of these cultures are well represented in Canada's many governments and all have a role in shaping public policy and a more nebulous "Canadian culture" based on giving every community the room to be themselves. It's not perfect by any means but it's working pretty well so far.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

I do not believe that most are still distinct cultures. Language is both the carrier of culture and the greatest barrier between cultures. When there is a common language the cultures are no longer distinct. Eventually the latest generation of Canadians will speak Canadian.

 

[Evilroddy]

I do not believe that most are still distinct cultures. Language is both the carrier of culture and the greatest barrier between cultures. When there is a common language the cultures are no longer distinct. Eventually the latest generation of Canadians will speak Canadian.

craig:

Canada has two official languages at the present and its charter of rights and freedoms requires the state to offer services to even more. We are debating expanding the number of official languages but linguistic progressives and nativist conservatives are still at loggerheads and are holding up these decisions either way. The goal in Canada is to have a population that speaks as many languages as each person can manage. That is one of the cornerstones of a multilingual and multicultural society.

Salut et bon santé/Cheets and be well.
Méchantroddy/Evilroddy

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Why do you think there are so many pro-China action movies in theaters the past 15 years? You know, the ones where the Hollywood A-lister, on the brink of defeat, suddenly is rescued by their Chinese colleague of equal skill and greater humility, and together they defeat the Bad Guy using superior Chinese manufacturing capacity?

That really chaps my ass because it's always so hollow that it's like interrupting a classical symphony broadcast with snips from Debbie Does Dallas.