The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf[W:163]

[Harshaw]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

They were not made by mainstream people on the left.

They, in fact, were.

And it still comes again and again, every time they attack what they refer to as "anti-gay legislation," whether or not it actually IS anti-gay. Psssst: that in itself is part of the fear-mongering.

You are actually criticizing your own strawman, not left wing politics. That's why this is so ironic--

I know you think this means something, possibly even clever, but it doesn't.

Look at your quote:

Yes, look at it.

By specifying "on the Left" you are, indeed, implying that this phenomenon is unique to the left.

No. I'm not. Especially not in the context in which it was posted.

You see it that way because you want to. Because you are fundamentally dishonest. Because you apparently enjoy pretending people said things they didn't.

You do it every single time.

And you'll note that i prefaced my comment with "if you think that..."- i was very clearly leaving room for doubt.

Yet, you still read it in.

Either you did believe that, and if so i reduced it to the absurd, or you didn't believe that, and you agree with me.

You did not "reduce it to the absurd."

This is not the first time I've seen you pooch the entire concept of reductio ad absurdum. You really don't know what it means. I know you think you do. You don't.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Hmm. New York vs. New Mexico. May have something to do with it. I'd say differing perspectives on the matter.

When are the people on the coasts going to realize that they've gone off beyond the left edge of the page?

What ??

You're assuming that there's a left bias why ?

 

[Harshaw]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Equal rights don't seem to scare the center and left, but the concept terrifies the right.
Universal healthcare doesn't scare the center and left, but it scares the hell out of the right.

That's just two off the top of my head, but I'll admit that both are consistent with the American right's utter disdain for the value of actually existing human life.

I didn't say anyone was scared. I asked if there were any core issues on the left not based in fear. I replied to a post from Josie which described exactly what I meant.

There's plenty of scare-mongering done from the left around both of those issues.

You're actually helping do it, by putting up a caricature of "the right" as monsters.

"Equal rights": "conservatives" want to put blacks back in chains. Want women to be kept to the kitchen. And so on. Going by this post, it would not surprise me if you've argued along those lines yourself.

"Universal healthcare": visions conjured up of bodies stacking up like cordwood outside emergency rooms. Of everyone going bankrupt from medical bells. That Republicans want you dead.

And so forth.

 

[Absentglare]

The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

They, in fact, were.

And it still comes again and again, every time they attack what they refer to as "anti-gay legislation," whether or not it actually IS anti-gay. Psssst: that in itself is part of the fear-mongering.

Fine, then find one mainstream left advocate that used "HATE HATE HATE gays dragged by cars" (or whatever ridiculous thing you said) to push for gay marriage.

If (WHEN) you don't, i will consider your claim formally abandoned.

I know you think this means something, possibly even clever, but it doesn't.

Sure it does. You have imagined a strawman, "the Left," that actually does the things you're complaining about: the problem is that it doesn't represent anything in the real world in any meaningful way.

Yes, look at it.

No. I'm not. Especially not in the context in which it was posted.

You said "the Left"- are you admitting that you misspoke and really meant "the Right and the Left" ? Or is your denial here incoherent ?

You see it that way because you want to. Because you are fundamentally dishonest. Because you apparently enjoy pretending people said things they didn't.

You do it every single time.

My person is not the topic. You may be upset because your position has been reduced to its absurdity. I do not blame you for wanting to distance yourself from the absurdity of the position that you have advocated here.

Yet, you still read it in.

You did not "reduce it to the absurd."

This is not the first time I've seen you pooch the entire concept of reductio ad absurdum. You really don't know what it means. I know you think you do. You don't.

A declaration without argument is not convincing. Please tie in your declaration with facts about reality.

 

[Harshaw]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Fine, then find one mainstream left advocate that used "HATE HATE HATE gays dragged by cars" (or whatever ridiculous thing you said) to push for gay marriage.

If (WHEN) you don't, i will consider your claim formally abandoned.



Sure it does. You have imagined a strawman, "the Left," that actually does the things you're complaining about: the problem is that it doesn't represent anything in the real world in any meaningful way.



You said "the Left"- are you admitting that you misspoke and really meant "the Right and the Left" ? Or is your denial here incoherent ?



My person is not the topic. You may be upset because your position has been reduced to its absurdity. I do not blame you for wanting to distance yourself from the absurdity of the position that you have advocated here.



A declaration without argument is not convincing. Please tie in your declaration with facts about reality.

Siiiiiiiiiiiigh.

I guess you don't bother to read context, and what I was responding to.

I did not say ONLY the Left does. At no point did I say ONLY the Left does. If I say "Steven Spielberg makes sci-fi movies," it does not mean that ONLY Steven Spielberg makes sci-fi movies.

Apparently to you, it does. That's your problem, not mine.

Your incompetence bores me. Buh-bye.

 

[Kobie]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Siiiiiiiiiiiigh.

I guess you don't bother to read context, and what I was responding to.

I did not say ONLY the Left does. At no point did I say ONLY the Left does. If I say "Steven Spielberg makes sci-fi movies," it does not mean that ONLY Steven Spielberg makes sci-fi movies.

Apparently to you, it does. That's your problem, not mine.

Your incompetence bores me. Buh-bye.

When you excoriate "the left" for doing things a certain way yet ignore "the right" doing the same damn thing, what does that make you? HINT: It rhymes with "schmypocrite."

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

What ??

You're assuming that there's a left bias why ?

Are you trying make believe that the US coasts aren't centers of liberal / leftist thought?

 

[Kobie]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Are you trying make believe that the US coasts aren't centers of liberal / leftist thought?

:roll:

Yes, it's just a big, bi-coastal liberal cocktail party over here.

Does your alt-right victimhood know any limits?

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

:roll:

Yes, it's just a big, bi-coastal liberal cocktail party over here.

Does your alt-right victimhood know any limits?

I don't see it as any sort of 'alt-right victimhood'. I think it's kinda more of a fact of life.

 

[Kobie]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

I don't see it as any sort of 'alt-right victimhood'. I think it's kinda more of a fact of life.

Of course you do.

 

[Harshaw]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

When you excoriate "the left" for doing things a certain way yet ignore "the right" doing the same damn thing, what does that make you? HINT: It rhymes with "schmypocrite."

I didn't ignore anything. The Right's fearmongering had already been brought up in the thread. What Josie said, and what I added to, was to balance THAT.

Here's Moot, and what started the whole thing:

Fear is a biological instinct and will naturally get and keep people's attention. And Republican ideas are largely based on fear. IE: the sky is falling. Rapists, murders and muslims, oh my.

I see you didn't get all over HER, so who's the, er, rhymes-with-schmypocrite? Hmmmm?

If you guys can't follow a thread, it's no one's fault but your own.

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Of course you do.

As I'm sure that you see all things liberal and leftist as good and holy, and all things conservative as evil and bad. Yes, yes, I know about all that.

 

[Kobie]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

As I'm sure that you see all things liberal and leftist as good and holy, and all things conservative as evil and bad. Yes, yes, I know about all that.

There's a difference between your little assessment of me here and mine of you -- there's scant evidence that your assessment holds an ounce of merit.

 

[Absentglare]

The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Are you trying make believe that the US coasts aren't centers of liberal / leftist thought?

What ?!

I've spent a lot of time in San Francisco, it's not 100% liberal. Even if it were, that doesn't mean the media there is biased in that way.

Even if your argument were true, it would equally condemn anywhere other than the coasts to a right leaning bias. Do you think that's accurate ?

 

[Visbek]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

I would have as much problem with the MSM being strongly biased to the right as I do with it being strongly biased to the left. As for you list, they ALL were treated with kid gloves compared to how they treat a Republican or conservative in the same circumstances.

How were any of them treated lightly?!?

Bill Clinton was pilloried in the press
Blagojevich, Spitzer, McGreevy, Jackson Jr driven out of office and faced charges and political careers destroyed
Jon Edwards and Anthony Weiner, political careers destroyed
Corzine got far more attention than, say, Mozilo (CEO of Countrywide)

You really think John Ensign was treated worse than Carlos Danger? Seriously?

Did any of them do anything as bad as Dennis Hastert did? Or even Tom Foley?

I don't think alleged media bias is the problem here.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

I didn't ignore anything. The Right's fearmongering had already been brought up in the thread. What Josie said, and what I added to, was to balance THAT.

Here's Moot, and what started the whole thing:



I see you didn't get all over HER, so who's the, er, rhymes-with-schmypocrite? Hmmmm?

If you guys can't follow a thread, it's no one's fault but your own.

What, someone else did it first ??

Give me a break, if your argument was that both sides do it, you could have said that.

 

[Opopanax]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

I didn't say anyone was scared. I asked if there were any core issues on the left not based in fear. I replied to a post from Josie which described exactly what I meant.

There's plenty of scare-mongering done from the left around both of those issues.

You're actually helping do it, by putting up a caricature of "the right" as monsters.

"Equal rights": "conservatives" want to put blacks back in chains. Want women to be kept to the kitchen. And so on. Going by this post, it would not surprise me if you've argued along those lines yourself.

"Universal healthcare": visions conjured up of bodies stacking up like cordwood outside emergency rooms. Of everyone going bankrupt from medical bells. That Republicans want you dead.

And so forth.

The left wasn't afraid of voting rights for everyone or for marriage equality. Or was it the GOP who fought for civil rights in the 1960s? And yes, it is monstrous to deny rights to others that you have based on skin color, gender, or sexual orientation. It was conservatives who said that marriage equality was abominable. And it is conservatives today who would still rather see people live in pain and die early rather than provide them with medical care. And it's you who bring up the scare mongering vision that exists nowhere that universal healthcare does. You're terrified of things that are of a benefit to everyone, with no basis for it.

Fear of change drives the American conservative movement.

The fears of the left includes guns, which actually kill 30,000 people a year. That fear is rational. That speaks not to an unfounded paranoia, but to the understanding that we have a much greater chance of ourselves or a loved one being murdered due to the prevalence of guns in our society than in say, Canada or the UK or Germany or Japan, etc. And it would take ten 9/11's to match the number of Americans killed in just one year by gun wielding Americans. And in the fifteen years since 9/11, some 450,000 Americans have died from gunshot wounds. That's more than we lost in all of WWII. By the time 2021 rolls around, the number will beat both world wars combined.

Our fears include things like going bankrupt over medical bills (the #1 reason for bankruptcy), or dying early from some undiagnosed condition because we couldn't afford to go to the doctor. Those are real things that really happen every single day in this country (at least 20,000 per year).

Generally, in the United States right now, the fears of the left have a strong basis in reality. They're not speculative, as in "Obommer's gunna take all our guns and make death squads," or "ISIS is a serious threat"; the fears of the left are rational and based on common experience and knowledge. I won't even get into the "God's gonna punish us because gays have equal rights" thing.

And Terrorism? Ha! We're are a much greater threat to ourselves right now than Al Qaeda or ISIS could ever hope to be. If a terrorist group was killing 50,000 Americans per year, we'd be in a full blown Total War conflict with that group and every nation that harbored them--and justifiably so. But killing each other through violence and neglect? Well, that's just good American values.

 

[Harshaw]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

The left wasn't afraid of voting rights for everyone or for marriage equality. Or was it the GOP who fought for civil rights in the 1960s? And yes, it is monstrous to deny rights to others that you have based on skin color, gender, or sexual orientation. It was conservatives who said that marriage equality was abominable. And it is conservatives today who would still rather see people live in pain and die early rather than provide them with medical care. And it's you who bring up the scare mongering vision that exists nowhere that universal healthcare does. You're terrified of things that are of a benefit to everyone, with no basis for it.

Fear of change drives the American conservative movement.

The fears of the left includes guns, which actually kill 30,000 people a year. That fear is rational. That speaks not to an unfounded paranoia, but to the understanding that we have a much greater chance of ourselves or a loved one being murdered due to the prevalence of guns in our society than in say, Canada or the UK or Germany or Japan, etc. And it would take ten 9/11's to match the number of Americans killed in just one year by gun wielding Americans. And in the fifteen years since 9/11, some 450,000 Americans have died from gunshot wounds. That's more than we lost in all of WWII. By the time 2021 rolls around, the number will beat both world wars combined.

Our fears include things like going bankrupt over medical bills (the #1 reason for bankruptcy), or dying early from some undiagnosed condition because we couldn't afford to go to the doctor. Those are real things that really happen every single day in this country (at least 20,000 per year).

Generally, in the United States right now, the fears of the left have a strong basis in reality. They're not speculative, as in "Obommer's gunna take all our guns and make death squads," or "ISIS is a serious threat"; the fears of the left are rational and based on common experience and knowledge. I won't even get into the "God's gonna punish us because gays have equal rights" thing.

And Terrorism? Ha! We're are a much greater threat to ourselves right now than Al Qaeda or ISIS could ever hope to be. If a terrorist group was killing 50,000 Americans per year, we'd be in a full blown Total War conflict with that group and every nation that harbored them--and justifiably so. But killing each other through violence and neglect? Well, that's just good American values.

The parts of this which actually spoke to anything I said, confirmed what I said.

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

What ?!

I've spent a lot of time in San Francisco, it's not 100% liberal. Even if it were, that doesn't mean the media there is biased in that way.

Primarily liberal bias yes. From my experience, the majority of media has a left bias.

Even if your argument were true, it would equally condemn anywhere other than the coasts to a right leaning bias. Do you think that's accurate ?

Funny that you should think that anywhere with a right leaning is condemned to having it. That probably speaks volumes all on its own.

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

There's a difference between your little assessment of me here and mine of you -- there's scant evidence that your assessment holds an ounce of merit.

Well, then, there's two little assessments of questionable merits.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

How were any of them treated lightly?!?

Bill Clinton was pilloried in the press
Blagojevich, Spitzer, McGreevy, Jackson Jr driven out of office and faced charges and political careers destroyed
Jon Edwards and Anthony Weiner, political careers destroyed
Corzine got far more attention than, say, Mozilo (CEO of Countrywide)

You really think John Ensign was treated worse than Carlos Danger? Seriously?

Did any of them do anything as bad as Dennis Hastert did? Or even Tom Foley?

I don't think alleged media bias is the problem here.

I think the distinction is in whether the treatment was evaluated to be justifiable or not.

I think we all tend to evaluate the opposition with more criticism and, correspondingly, we all tend to evaluate our own side with more sympathy. It takes a conscious effort to try to combat that bias, and i won't claim that i have any special power there.

By my view, the media exaggerates attacks against both Hillary and Donald. Predictably, i find the attacks against Donald to have more validity.

It's kind of amusing, actually- media bias is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[jonny5]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

The problem is, a free press that is not beholden to any political group is our best insurance to retain our freedom. When we do not have that, it is really easy for those who want to sucker you to be able to do so with impunity.

Sure, but if thats what the people want, thats what they get.

 

[upsideguy]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Fox New is no longer conservative media, they traded conservatism for Trumpism.

...which will be to their determent as they are "backing" a certain loser that will reflect poorly on their judgement in the long-run.

 

[KLATTU]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

Fear is a biological instinct and will naturally get and keep people's attention. And Republican ideas are largely based on fear. IE: the sky is falling. Rapists, murders and muslims, oh my.

LOL- the whole Clinton is :90% fear of Trump. 10% all the great free sh$t we'll give you if you elect us.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: The Conservative Media Echo Chamber Is Making the Right Intellectually Deaf

How were any of them treated lightly?!?

Bill Clinton was pilloried in the press
Blagojevich, Spitzer, McGreevy, Jackson Jr driven out of office and faced charges and political careers destroyed
Jon Edwards and Anthony Weiner, political careers destroyed
Corzine got far more attention than, say, Mozilo (CEO of Countrywide)

You really think John Ensign was treated worse than Carlos Danger? Seriously?

Did any of them do anything as bad as Dennis Hastert did? Or even Tom Foley?

I don't think alleged media bias is the problem here.

I don't have time to go into it here, but I know of what I speak. In the Bill Clinton impeachment alone, going back to analyze the headlines, the photos used, the placement of the stories, the information left out of the MSM stories, the failure to give attention to the side stories, and the willingness to put up front the effort to discredit the victims and critics all resulted in the distortion of the facts and intentional dismissal of the opposition. And to this day, people like you refer to the whole incident as a 'blow job' or making a mountain out of a molehill. The MSM was more than happy to carefully craft it to create that impression. The Blagojevich story was handled a bit better but even there he was not demonized by the media as a Republican would have been. Even Anthony Weiner got off easier in the media than any Republican or conservative would have been able to pull off.

If the media was really doing honest journalism, they would be doing the research and investigation on those side stories regardless of who the subject of the story is, and they would give equal treatment to their subjects regardless of their ideology or political affiliation. The negative stories on Donald Trump for instance have been like 20 to 1 compared to negative stories about Hillary. And they stay on ANY issue re the Donald while many have never given any significant time or shown any interest in things like Benghazi, the many e-mail flaps, jeopardizing American security, intertwining of the Clinton Foundation with the State Department, i.e. pay to play, etc. Is Donald Trump's provocative remarks so much more serious than all that?