The Christian Right is winning cultural battles while public opinion disagrees

[SuperDS77]

Let's first try to find some common ground. Do you believe a majority of US voters support a woman's right to choose?

I agree let's try. I assume you will agree that clarity is essential.

So could I ask you to clarify(be more specific) as to what "right to choose" means. Do you mean up until the moment of birth or sometime prior to that? Thank you.

 

[bongsaway]

It is not, just see the January 6th committee hearings. It is very much alive.

A mind is a horrible thing to waste. I've been watching the hearings, very professionally presented. You guys are just pissed you didn't get to have jordan and gaetz to sling shit all over the place making a mockery of this hearing like they did in both of trump's impeachment hearings. So sad.

 

[JMB802]

I agree let's try. I assume you will agree that clarity is essential.

So could I ask you to clarify(be more specific) as to what "right to choose" means. Do you mean up until the moment of birth or sometime prior to that? Thank you.

Supporting a woman's right to choose means that a person believes that abortion should be legal in all circumstances or legal under circumstances.

Do you believe that a majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose?

 

[SuperDS77]

Supporting a woman's right to choose means that a person believes that abortion should be legal in all circumstances or legal under circumstances.

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense.

Do you believe that a majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose?

If the exact question is; "Do you believe a majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose right up until the moment of birth, regardless of the circumstances?". I would say no, that a majority do not believe that.

Now if the question was; "Do you believe a majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose through the first trimester?". I would say yes.

As I am sure you know, Roe established this notion of "trimesters" and when regulation might be allowed. Most supporters of "choice" do not even hold that view any longer. Do you agree to that?

 

[SuperDS77]

A mind is a horrible thing to waste. I've been watching the hearings, very professionally presented.

Yes, because we all know PRESENTATION is everything. "Professionally presented" does not mean the hearing is being conducted in a fair and objective manner because it most certainly is not.

You guys are just pissed you didn't get to have jordan and gaetz to sling shit all over the place making a mockery of this hearing like they did in both of trump's impeachment hearings. So sad.

Yes, it is unfortunate that the pushers of the apparent narrative have no one to push back on many of the clearly ridiculous assertions, half truths and outright lies.

 

[multivita-man]

I have been suspicious of religion most of my life, but there's no question that religion is important to a lot of Americans. I'm for the separation of church and state but whenever I see people suing over a nativity scene in front of a public building, I think that's probably going a bit overboard. Pick your battles, at least.

 

[JMB802]

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense.

If the exact question is; "Do you believe a majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose right up until the moment of birth, regardless of the circumstances?". I would say no, that a majority do not believe that.

Now if the question was; "Do you believe a majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose through the first trimester?". I would sayyes.

As I am sure you know, Roe established this notion of "trimesters" and when regulation might be allowed. Most supporters of "choice" do not even hold that view any longer. Do you agree to that?

Attempts to deflect aside, we do agree on this. Cool.

Do you support the conservative SC's decision to allow states to ban abortions?

 

[bongsaway]

Yes, because we all know PRESENTATION is everything. "Professionally presented" does not mean the hearing is being conducted in a fair and objective manner because it most certainly is not.

Yes, it is unfortunate that the pushers of the apparent narrative have no one to push back on many of the clearly ridiculous assertions, half truths and outright lies.

Are you saying everyone who has testified under oath with the penalty of perjury hanging over their heads, has lied, and speaking of ridiculous assertions...

 

[SuperDS77]

Attempts to deflect aside, we do agree on this. Cool.

Deflect? I believe clarity is extremely important in these types of discussions, therefore I clarified what my position is, despite the vagueness of your initial question.

Do you support the conservative SC's decision to allow states to ban abortions?

Yes.

No, in the spirit of fair debate, may I ask you a question? Do you believe there should be SOME limits on abortion?

 

[SuperDS77]

Are you saying everyone who has testified under oath with the penalty of perjury hanging over their heads, has lied, and speaking of ridiculous assertions...

No, but thank you for asking me to clarify my position.

 

[bongsaway]

No, but thank you for asking me to clarify my position.

ridiculous assertions, half truths and outright lies....those are your words but when asked to clarify you said no, you do not think they are lying. So, only some are lying? Which ones and about what?

 

[JMB802]

Deflect? I believe clarity is extremely important in these types of discussions, therefore I clarified what my position is, despite the vagueness of your initial question.


Yes.

No, in the spirit of fair debate, may I ask you a question? Do you believe there should be SOME limits on abortion?

You agree that the majority of Americans support abortion and you also agree with the SC's decision allowing states to ban abortions. Why?

FWIW, I personally believe there should be some general limits on abortion. I also believe that what a woman and her doctor decided to do during a complicated pregnancy is none of my business.

 

[SuperDS77]

You agree that the majority of Americans support abortion and you also agree with the SC's decision allowing states to ban abortions. Why?

Not all states would agree to where the "line" should be drawn, therefore the democratically elected representatives in those states should decide. Not the SCOTUS.

FWIW, I personally believe there should be some general limits on abortion.

We have also found common ground here, in that there should be some "general limits".

I also believe that what a woman and her doctor decided to do during a complicated pregnancy is none of my business.

We agree here as well.

I assume you would acknowledge that the vast majority of abortions do not fall into that category ("complicated pregnancy"), right?

 

[upsideguy]

We are a Christian nation with a secular government. May it ever be so.

Very, very little evidence of that statement. If America is Christian, then it is in name only (CINO) as most people that call themselves Christians are not. Let us begin with the notion that a Christian would not have Donald Trump as its leader.

As Christians we are to try to see the world through Gods eyes, which means we love what God loves and detest what God hates. Proverbs 6:16-19 tells us what the Lord hates:

There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

A Christian would not tolerate as its leader, an unrepentant personification of such, which is exactly what Donald Trump is.... A real Christian is far more discerning and demanding of its leaders.

 

[it's just me]

Rep/cons who take govt action in support of the Christian Right are doing so because there is no opposition from the Dems. That's why they succeed in spite of public opinion that is not represented by other action. A body in motion, the Rep/cons, tends to stay in motion. A body at rest, the Dems, tend to stay at rest. The Dems are not an effective intervening force to change the current trends of such as cultural issues (Rep/cons turn everything into a cultural issue) or much of anything else. Meanwhile, the Rep/cons motion is gaining momentum.

Bullshit. The left has done everything but riot and I'm frankly surprised they haven't done that.

 

[JMB802]

Not all states would agree to where the "line" should be drawn, therefore the democratically elected representatives in those states should decide. Not the SCOTUS.

Why should individual states legislate the issue at all?

We have also found common ground here, in that there should be some "general limits".

We agree here as well.

I assume you would acknowledge that the vast majority of abortions do not fall into that category ("complicated pregnancy"), right?

It doesn't matter what I assume. How a Doctor and patient define a complicated pregnancy and how they choose to treat it is none of my business.

 

[TomFitz]

The chief examples listed in that article (Roe & school prayer) seem more like legal victories to me, not cultural victories. If they were enjoying cultural victories, then there would be a shrinking number of Americans who disagree with them, not a growing number.

I think that‘s why they are rushing to consolidate their victories now, while the radicals still have any power.

 

[bluesmoke]

We are a secular nation. That's how it should be where everyone is equal under the law.

Clearly we can't even get this right in 2022.

In a democracy, though, people and their representatives can vote and act to put religious wish into law.

 

[Airyaman]

There are some who comment on DP who apparently do believe in the myth of the United States as a nation founded on "Christian principles". Though they are a minority in America, at this time, they are among a group that has taken, by legitimate means, political power in multiple states. What will be the consequences for those who disagree with this minority view?



Speaking to a crowd in a church, Republican congresswoman Lauren Boebertt complained:


Though the evangelicals are a shrinking minority in the nation, they have a disproportionate political power at this time.


Then there is the issue: Which Christianity should be given the reins of power?

When you say "minority", what do you speak of? 65% of US citizens still claim to be Christian.

 

[JMB802]

When you say "minority", what do you speak of? 65% of US citizens still claim to be Christian.

Yes, but far fewer identify as Evangelical (Christian right). 14% identify as white evangelical Protestant.

(edited to add) For argument's sake, if you add all Catholics and all non-white Protestants to the number (because some are conservative about social issues like homosexuality and abortion) the number is just 51%. But, keep in mind, of the added 37%, not all have conservative beliefs.

The 2020 Census of American Religion | PRRI

PRRI’s 2020 Census of American Religion provides unprecedented county-level data on religious identity and diversity in the United States. Based on interviews with more than 500,000 respondents between 2013 and 2020, the census report reveals the shifting dynamics of American religious...

www.prri.org

 

[snakestretcher]

Yes, the neo-Marxist culture is against the American people.

What "neo-Marxist culture"? The one your fertile imagination conjured up but doesn't actually exist in reality?

 

[bluesmoke]

Bullshit. The left has done everything but riot and I'm frankly surprised they haven't done that.

That you say "everything but riot" proves my point.

 

[Somerville]

When you say "minority", what do you speak of? 65% of US citizens still claim to be Christian.

Not all Christians believe the nonsense put out by clowns like David Barton. An American who calls themselves Christian does not always believe the fake history promulgated by certain loudmouths.

Read Chris Rodda's books, Liars For Jesus: The Religious Right's Alternate Version of American History, Vols 1 & 2

or if you prefer a Christian history professor's views, try John Fea's Was America Founded as a Christian Nation? Revised Edition: A Historical Introduction
John Fea teaches American history at Messiah College in Mechanicsburg, PA.

 

[Somerville]

Religion shouldn't be running the government, but there's nothing wrong with religious people being part of the government. The government also needs to stop interfering in all religious matters like the coach that prayed during a football game. The 1st Amendment expressly keeps the govt out of it.

Get your defences correct before posting - or not.

The coach was a government (public school employee paid with taxpayer dollars) employee. He deliberately prayed in public on the 50 yard line of the football field, at the conclusion of games. He had been offered a private space for his praying and refused to accept the school's wishes.
.
What was his reason for praying in a public space? What was his excuse? To me, my opinion, the man was doing nothing more than proselytizing on the public's dollar.

 

[Plasmaball]

In a democracy, though, people and their representatives can vote and act to put religious wish into law.

Sadly...but they shouldn't.