The CDC's Hysterical Delta Flip-Flop Might Be Its Final Undoing

[GhostlyJoe]

This is confusing; numbers and analyses keep changing, and I'm wondering about this:

Israeli health officials have said 60% of current hospitalized COVID-19 cases are in vaccinated people. Most of them are age 60 or older and often have underlying health problems.

In the United States, which has experienced more COVID-19 cases and deaths than any other country, the Delta variant represents about 83% of new infections. So far, unvaccinated people represent nearly 97% of severe cases.

How is it that 60% of hospitalized patients in Israel are vaccinated and only 3% of hospitalized patients in the US are vaccinated? Pfizer has been the most commonly used vaccine here, too. But even if it has something to do with the vaccines, it wouldn't account for that big a difference.

This is like watching the breaking news of a mass shooting. News gets announced and repeated in a loop and then changed as they learn more. And there are always huge unanswered questions. Explanations change from day to day. It's really confusing.

Time frame. We need to see statistics on vaccinated vs. unvaccinated hospitalizations rates sets over the same time period. Because more and more people are vaccinated over time, that 97% number is certain to drop over time.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

Most of India is not vaccinated and especially weren't in April. If you'd like to claim most Indians were vaccinated, show us the evidence.

They weren't. Vaccination rates increase over time. Blaming people who aren't vaccinated today for a variant that emerged in April is just dumb and bigoted. In persisting in this line of accusation, you prove yourself anti-science.

No, I'm blaming this mutation on illiterate, conspiracy theory dumbasses that spent a year calling the virus a hoax and no big deal, demanded we let it infect everyone to reach herd immunity, then refused to get the vaccine when offered.

Those people only exist in your bigoted imagination.

You refuse yet again to defend or source your claims or the claims of VySky, because you know you can't.

I'm not VySky. I'm just pointing out to anyone happening by that you're statements are full of bull crap.

 

[bluesmoke]

Incorrect. Whether or not a virus mutates is a totally random event. It can happen in either a vaccinated or unvaccinated person. All we know about the Delta variant is that it originated in India in December and was brought here via international travel. Both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can spread it which is why the WHO advised last month that vaccinated people wear masks again.

To survive, the vaccine goes where there is a host to be had. No host, no survival. The more unvaccinated there are, the more host there are to extend survival for a longer period of time and more time to mutate to a more contagious and/or virulent variant. Your are in denial and self-deluded and can survive as such as long as you refuse science and cling to ignorance among your co-dependents on this forum and elsewhere before you mutate to some other delusional/science denying/CT, unsupported by fact based belief, and again refusing the vaccination of evidence of fact.

 

[PeteEU]

You said the unvaccinated caused Delta. That's just wrong. The Delta variant emerged in India in April.

Yes.. because they were not vaccinated. Point is that Delta 2.0 could emerge anywhere because of anti-vaxxers or unvaccinated (due to no vaccine).

 

[SarahSun]

Does anyone know how many people wearing masks infected other people? Does anyone know how many people not wearing masks infected people? The answer is we dont know but the most likely answer is its 50/50. Basically, if you can breathe thru a mask, its useless.

 

[SarahSun]

To survive, the vaccine goes where there is a host to be had. No host, no survival. The more unvaccinated there are, the more host there are to extend survival for a longer period of time and more time to mutate to a more contagious and/or virulent variant. Your are in denial and self-deluded and can survive as such as long as you refuse science and cling to ignorance among your co-dependents on this forum and elsewhere before you mutate to some other delusional/science denying/CT, unsupported by fact based belief, and again refusing the vaccination of evidence of fact.

The CDC doesnt agree with you.

 

[Overitall]

Spot on report. But such data doesn’t matter to those trying to control our lives.

 

[roguenuke]

Does anyone know how many people wearing masks infected other people? Does anyone know how many people not wearing masks infected people? The answer is we dont know but the most likely answer is its 50/50. Basically, if you can breathe thru a mask, its useless.

No. The most likely answer is not "50/50" simply because you want to make that assumption. Evidence actually does show masks do work to slow the spread.

 

[GhostlyJoe]

Yes.. because they were not vaccinated. Point is that Delta 2.0 could emerge anywhere because of anti-vaxxers or unvaccinated (due to no vaccine).

So you ascribe all uncertainty in this matter to the bad will of you political opponents. No need for proof, just speculation that there attitude must be harmful.

Would it affect your position to know that the unvaccinated are disproportionately poor and people of color?

 

[VySky]

but……. but…. but…..

 

[roguenuke]

View attachment 67345333
Spot on report. But such data doesn’t matter to those trying to control our lives.

It is New York Post. Definitely not a "spot on report".

 

[Quag]

Trumptards are not going to bring down the CDC

 

[PeteEU]

This is confusing; numbers and analyses keep changing, and I'm wondering about this:

Israeli health officials have said 60% of current hospitalized COVID-19 cases are in vaccinated people. Most of them are age 60 or older and often have underlying health problems.

In the United States, which has experienced more COVID-19 cases and deaths than any other country, the Delta variant represents about 83% of new infections. So far, unvaccinated people represent nearly 97% of severe cases.

How is it that 60% of hospitalized patients in Israel are vaccinated and only 3% of hospitalized patients in the US are vaccinated? Pfizer has been the most commonly used vaccine here, too. But even if it has something to do with the vaccines, it wouldn't account for that big a difference.

This is like watching the breaking news of a mass shooting. News gets announced and repeated in a loop and then changed as they learn more. And there are always huge unanswered questions. Explanations change from day to day. It's really confusing.

Context matters.

Israel has 62+% fully vaccinated, the US has 49% fully vaccinated.

Number of ICU patients in Israel is 33. US it is 7923. If we take population into consideration, then Israel would have 1188 with the same population. That is one hell of a difference.

In the US, large parts of "Trumpland" are un-vaccinated, and that includes a lot over 60 who tend to be the ones going to the ICU and not coming out.

Unfortunately finding numbers with age breakdown on fully vaccinated is difficult. But this chart for the US and this article for Israel. Israel has 90% of the over 60s vaccinated, where as the US is... behind., and I suspect that is because of the Trump effect.

The latest numbers out of the UK (reliable or not)... state that if you are vaccinated then you have 81% protection against getting Covid-19 delta variant. Now this is all vaccines, which can muddy the waters as AstraZenca has some questionable results against Delta.... think that is the political correct way of saying it. An interesting article about this. But if we take these numbers on face value and apply in general, then of those 19% chance of getting Covid-19, that are fully vaccinated, of those only 4% have a chance of being hospitalized. And of that 4%, it is even lower for going to the ICU. Now of course this is all dependent on age and pre-existing health conditions.

Point is no vaccine is 100%, and in the case of the Delta variant, it is only 81%ish. Now if you do get it, the chances of having a mild outcome even if you are in the danger age groups is very very good. Having no vaccine would put odds against you for having a bad reaction to Covid and depending on the age group.. up to 60% chance of hospitalization.

I think the best thing to do is to compare high vaccination US states with low vaccination US states.. not on new infections but burden in hospitals and ICUs and of course deaths. I suspect you will see similar numbers between US and Israel.

Delta is very infectious and take where I am now, Spain.. Hospitals are seeing higher pressure and ICU numbers are up. The worst region in Spain is only seeing 44% of ICU beds with Covid-19 patients, which is high compared to the 12% in my area or the 5% in others. So if we compare to earlier in the pandemic, we had ICU numbers over 50% with lower infection rates. So the vaccines have done something. Also I saw a breakdown of who is getting infected in Spain and 60% or so are in the age group 12-29... which explains a lot. Now double vaccinated people are still getting sick and dying.. cant avoid that, but they usually have underlying conditions. A famous local guy just died yesterday here,.. double jabbed 79 year old with cancer. So.....

 

[Overitall]

It is New York Post. Definitely not a "spot on report".

Can you dispute its data?

 

[roguenuke]

Can you dispute its data?

Yes, very easily.

Masks are not about protecting those who wear them, not mainly. They are about protecting those who may come into contact with those who are wearing them. If anyone is able to spread the virus without knowing it, that means that they can be spreading to those who are not vaccinated, even if their viral load is quite small itself. Once that person who is unvaccinated gets it, they can now spread it to a whole lot more people. Then that once again stresses the healthcare system, coming back to put vaccinated people at risk because the vaccinated could have a medical emergency that they can't be cared for due to overwhelmed medical resources.

Additionally, there is always the risk with more spread will come vaccine resistant strains.

It isn't about which of those vaccinated were hospitalized or died. It is about those who are vaccinated still being able to spread the virus, which then increases the risk of unvaccinated getting the virus.

 

[PeteEU]

So you ascribe all uncertainty in this matter to the bad will of you political opponents. No need for proof, just speculation that there attitude must be harmful.

Would it affect your position to know that the unvaccinated are disproportionately poor and people of color?

Could care less about the skin color of people nor their financial situation.

Variants are made due to not having a vaccine and letting new mutations happen. India is the perfect petri dish for this, and the chance of a new variant happening there are relatively high ... population big!

However the chance of a new variant happening in the US or Europe is there.. and THAT has a larger chance of happening among unvaccinated people. We already had one variant come from the UK, but had no vaccine at the time. Now we do, and there is enough vaccine to even vaccinate children now in most countries. So if a new variant comes in the US or France or Spain, then it will be because of anti-vax morons who refuse to get vaccinated.

 

[Overitall]

Yes, very easily.

Masks are not about protecting those who wear them, not mainly. They are about protecting those who may come into contact with those who are wearing them. If anyone is able to spread the virus without knowing it, that means that they can be spreading to those who are not vaccinated, even if their viral load is quite small itself. Once that person who is unvaccinated gets it, they can now spread it to a whole lot more people. Then that once again stresses the healthcare system, coming back to put vaccinated people at risk because the vaccinated could have a medical emergency that they can't be cared for due to overwhelmed medical resources.

Additionally, there is always the risk with more spread will come vaccine resistant strains.

It isn't about which of those vaccinated were hospitalized or died. It is about those who are vaccinated still being able to spread the virus, which then increases the risk of unvaccinated getting the virus.

How did that dispute the data presented in the cover page? It's repeating talking points.

 

[roguenuke]

How did that dispute the data presented in the cover page? It's repeating talking points.

Because it shows that they are pandering, spreading a strawman about why there is now a mask mandate being put back into place. It isn't about keeping those who are vaccinated from being hospitalized or dying (which is what those numbers were showing). It is about keeping covid from spreading more.

 

[Overitall]

Because it shows that they are pandering, spreading a strawman about why there is now a mask mandate being put back into place. It isn't about keeping those who are vaccinated from being hospitalized or dying (which is what those numbers were showing). It is about keeping covid from spreading more.

This is still not a disputation. It's your opinion.

 

[roguenuke]

This is still not a disputation. It's your opinion.

Yes it is.

The NYPost is trying to use a strawman argument, pointing out numbers of vaccinated getting hospitalized and/or dying as if that is the reason for the returning mask mandates. That is not why they are returning to mask mandates. So since that is not why mask mandates are being put back into place in NYC, there is no need to quote that data unless you are trying to present a strawman argument.

 

[bearpoker]

The only reason the delta variant exists is because there's so many conspiracy theory idiots that refuse to get the vaccine or even take the virus seriously, so it is being passed back and forth and being allowed to mutate. This is your fault and the fault of people like you.

No, pointing out that the existing vaccines may not be as effective against new virus mutations is not a flip-flop. Stop reading idiotic blogs and coming up with stupid fantasies about the CDC ceasing to exist because it's drawing attention to the problems YOU caused. Further, no one has claimed vaccines are 100% effective, just the opposite.

Show me ONE example of anyone from the CDC saying all vaccines will be equally effective against future mutations. You can't because you're lying through your teeth, as usual.

The Delta variant arose in India, so we can't blame it's existence on the local nut jobs. We can, however, blame them for it's spread here because they refuse to get vaccinated or take any precautions against its' spread. This shit is all their fault and we should rub their noses in it at every opportunity.

 

[Overitall]

Yes it is.

The NYPost is trying to use a strawman argument, pointing out numbers of vaccinated getting hospitalized and/or dying as if that is the reason for the returning mask mandates. That is not why they are returning to mask mandates. So since that is not why mask mandates are being put back into place in NYC, there is no need to quote that data unless you are trying to present a strawman argument.

You're trying to dispute the data by voicing an opinion about what NYP is attempting to do. You haven't touched the actual data. Is it wrong?

 

[roguenuke]

You're trying to dispute the data by voicing an opinion about what NYP is attempting to do. You haven't touched the actual data. Is it wrong?

I'm not disputing the actual data. I'm disputing the use of the data. There is a difference.

 

[Overitall]

I'm not disputing the actual data. I'm disputing the use of the data. There is a difference.

Then you are expressing your opinion. I have one of those also. But mine is based on what the data actually says and from what my eyes see common sense tells me there's no need to panic or to control people's lives. The odds are in your favor that you will survive this virus.

 

[roguenuke]

Then you are expressing your opinion. I have one of those also. But mine is based on what the data actually says and from what my eyes see common sense tells me there's no need to panic or to control people's lives. The odds are in your favor that you will survive this virus.

It isn't an opinion at all. The reason for the change in recommendations was absolutely due to trying to decrease the spread, not to specifically save the lives of vaccinated or keep them from being hospitalized from the Delta variant of the coronavirus. That is a strawman that is being presented by the NYPost in their use of that specific data, only vaccinated who are hospitalized and dying.