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The Caucasus is on fire again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War. Also factor in the Crimean War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War. Look up where Bosnia is a factor in the Ottoman Empire in that era and afterwards.

Historically this is a line to WW1 and WW2. The same parties are lining up for the same warfare and civil warfare again. We should completely stay out of this. The straw that broke the camel's back was never the cause of hardly any wars.
 
NewfieMom said:
This link (to the bbc.com on-line) that joluoto provided contained information that was helpful to me. One of its theses was that Russia was the key to the conflict. It argues that Turkey is too dependent on Russia to do too much to displease Russia.

I also found this interesting tidbit of information. To my ears, "Nagorno-Karabakh" is just a hard to memorize name devoid of meaning. The article gave it some context by explaining that "'Karabakh' is the Russian rendering of an Azeri word meaning 'black garden', while 'Nagorno' is a Russian word meaning 'mountainous'".
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Turkey is not that dependent on Russia, it gets some oil and gas from them but primarily has seen support from Qatar recently. For the military it has just the S400 AA system that it has not activated. (to my knowledge)

Turkey is trying to rebuild its influence among Turkic people of which I believe the Azeri belong.

Iran has a large minority population of Azeri, and used to (100 years +) control parts of Azerbaijan. It is more supportive of Armenia to ensure Azerbaijan does not think about trying to take over Azeri parts of Iran. That and Azerbaijan has been rather friendly with Israel in the last 15 years

Russia wants both to come back to its sphere of influence, but Azerbaijan has to much money for that to occur, so will support Armenia as a price

Armenia has little oil and gas production and is far less wealthy than Azerbaijan, so outside countries are not going to be very supportive. It does have a significant immigrant population in the US which could lobby the US government for support, and being a christian nation just might get it (even though I believe it is orthadox
 
joko104 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War. Also factor in the Crimean War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War. Look up where Bosnia is a factor in the Ottoman Empire in that era and afterwards.

Historically this is a line to WW1 and WW2. The same parties are lining up for the same warfare and civil warfare again. We should completely stay out of this. The straw that broke the camel's back was never the cause of hardly any wars.
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You claimed the region “started both World Wars”. That is blatantly untrue, and trying to claim the Crimean War was “on a line to the World Wars” is laughable.

Austria Hungary didn’t annex Bosnia until decades after the Crimean War.....so you are wrong....again.

Britain and France are lining up to go to war with Russia again?
 
joko104 said:
The region of the Caucasus ... There never has and never will be peace in that region. We should stay out of their killing fields.
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I have two words for you - Soviet Union. You couldn't imagine in nightmare this scenario during soviet power. In big state or empire such war impossible.
 
Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict: Why Caucasus flare-up risks wider war

Some good points came up in this article. One reason the Russians for now keep a low profile is probably because Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan hs tried to make Armenia more independent from Russian dominance. So Pashinyan doesn't want to ask for Russian help unless it gets desperate, and Putin is not a big fan of the Armenian PM.
 
joko104 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War. Also factor in the Crimean War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War. Look up where Bosnia is a factor in the Ottoman Empire in that era and afterwards.

Historically this is a line to WW1 and WW2. The same parties are lining up for the same warfare and civil warfare again. We should completely stay out of this. The straw that broke the camel's back was never the cause of hardly any wars.
Click to expand...
Bosnia was annexed by Austria- Hungary after both those wars, and Austrian/ Serbian rivalry had little to do with the Caucasus. The closest thing you can come to is Russian-Ottoman rivalry that was a thing in WW1 of course, but was hardly the reason for the war. It has even less to do with WW2, since the Caucasus was under Sovier control that whole time and Turkey remained neutral until 1945 when they joined the Allies. Sure Germany was interested in Azerbaijan's oil during WW2 but never came close to achieve it.
 
joluoto said:
Bosnia was annexed by Austria- Hungary after both those wars, and Austrian/ Serbian rivalry had little to do with the Caucasus. The closest thing you can come to is Russian-Ottoman rivalry that was a thing in WW1 of course, but was hardly the reason for the war. It has even less to do with WW2, since the Caucasus was under Sovier control that whole time and Turkey remained neutral until 1945 when they joined the Allies. Sure Germany was interested in Azerbaijan's oil during WW2 but never came close to achieve it.
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My point is that region of the world is endless fighting and any major power getting in the middle of it gets sucked into the wars, which then can escalate out of that region.

We can not bring peace there. All we can do is make it worse. It's just arrogance to think otherwise.
 
Ringo Stalin said:
I have two words for you - Soviet Union. You couldn't imagine in nightmare this scenario during soviet power. In big state or empire such war impossible.
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The Soviet Union created this situation in the first place.
 
Emmanuel Macron: "France has facts that Syrian Islamists from Turkey are taking part in the fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh"
Amazing! More recently, this political prostitute called these people the Syrian moderate opposition, fighters for freedom and democracy, and suddenly - Islamists!
 
It will be interesting to see how things go once the gas pipelines are affected. I bet oil and gas companies involved in TANAP and TAP will appoint new lobbyists in Brussels. This article already mentions something.
 
New video from Caspian report regarding the situation.



If his analysis is correct Azerbaijan is winning and the Armenians are past the point they can do much about it.
 
Given Russian actions in the past few days, it is likely Moscow is pushing both sides to accept a ceasefire.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Given Russian actions in the past few days, it is likely Moscow is pushing both sides to accept a ceasefire.
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Russia has seen this situation blow up in their face. They spent alot of time sowing dissent between the Caucasus nations in the late 80s, 90s and up to the mid 00s because divide and conquer. Then they are now in a situation where they have military interests in Armenia but economic interests in Azerbaijan, and suddenly them actually fighting is the worst thing ever. So yeah, Russia seem interested in getting a peace fast. Also Azerbaijan outright winning is not a very good thing for Moscow, it only strengthens Erdogan's hand.
 
joluoto said:
Russia has seen this situation blow up in their face. They spent alot of time sowing dissent between the Caucasus nations in the late 80s, 90s and up to the mid 00s
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This is the news from alternative reality?
 
Ringo Stalin said:
This is the news from alternative reality?
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Because GRU was not at all involved in the Armenian Parliament shooting of '99, not in any way. No sir, completely innocents.:rolleyes:

Russia interests in the Caucasus post their assistance of Armenian victory in the first war, was basically to make sure animosities prevailed, because they had a stronger hold on Armenian politics as long as the threat from Azerbaijan prevailed. And the last things the Russian wanted to see was the Caucasus nations actually starting to get along. However lately (as in from the mid 2000s) Russia has become friendlier with Azerbaijan due to common economic interests. And as Azerbaijani- Russian relations improved the Armenian- Azeri conflict started to become a pain in the ass instead, and Russia actually became interested in trying to solve it, but neither the Armenians nor the Azerbaijani wanted that.
 
joko104 said:
Over 90% of American war deaths have been under Democratic Party leadership.
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This is absolute rubbish. 50% of all American war deaths, ever, occurred in the American civil war, which was run under a GOP administration.

www.statista.com

United States: war fatalities1775-2022 | Statista

The American Civil War is the conflict with the largest number of American military fatalities in history.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
Luce said:
This is absolute rubbish. 50% of all American war deaths, ever, occurred in the American civil war, which was run under a GOP administration.

www.statista.com

United States: war fatalities1775-2022 | Statista

The American Civil War is the conflict with the largest number of American military fatalities in history.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
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What an absurd message.

Who was president for WW1? WW2? Who got us into Korean War? The Vietnam War - all Democrats. - and that is not even count the Civil War.
 
joko104 said:
What an absurd message.

Who was president for WW1? WW2? Who got us into Korean War? The Vietnam War - all Democrats. - and that is not even count the Civil War.
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You said "Over 90% of American war deaths have been under Democratic Party leadership."

I demonstrated that you were objectively wrong about that. Get mad, stay mad.
 
Luce said:
You said "Over 90% of American war deaths have been under Democratic Party leadership."

I demonstrated that you were objectively wrong about that. Get mad, stay mad.
Click to expand...

Your chart proves my claim.

You have demonstrated in your messages that you will furiously insist that facts are lies and lies are facts, required to believe in an alternative reality exactly opposite from the truth. Either than you can not do simple addition and don't understand how to calculate percentages.
 
joko104 said:
You have demonstrated in your messages that you will furiously insist that facts are lies and lies are facts, required to believe in an alternative reality exactly opposite from the truth.
Click to expand...


You were proven wrong and now you're pissed off. Life is tough, Joko. Wear a hat.
 
Luce said:
You were proven wrong and now you're pissed off. Life is tough, Joko. Wear a hat.
Click to expand...

So you are going to triple down on proving you are incapable of doing simple math and refuse to accept even the most commonly known historic facts. But some people are very proud to talk stupid. Anyone who can not accept obvious truth because they are a cult member or mindlessly submissive often have radically frail egos.

FACT - WW1, WW2, Vietnam and Korea count for over 90% of American war deaths and were all under Democratic leadership - not counting the Civil War. If the Civil War - the attempt of Democrats to create their own slave nation, is rises to around 95%.
 
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