The Bush Administration and this war

aps · Sep 9, 2006

I love Tom Friedman. He is intelligent, insightful, and articulate. His column yesterday was fantastic. Here are the points that I found particularly interesting:

http://select.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/opinion/08friedman.html

To listen to the latest Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld speeches, you’d think that our biggest problem in Iraq is a violent minority of “extremists,” defying the democratic will of the Iraqi people. And you’d think that our biggest problem at home is a misguided group of Democratic appeasers, who want to cut and run in the great totalitarian struggle of the 21st century.

Yeah, let's ignore the fact that our troops and Iraqis are dying on a daily basis in a country that is out of control.

Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, and let’s have an unprecedented wartime tax cut and shrink our armed forces.

They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but let’s send just enough troops to topple Saddam — and never control Iraq’s borders, its ammo dumps or its looters.

They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but rather than bring Democrats and Republicans together in a national unity war coalition, let’s use the war as a wedge issue to embarrass Democrats, frighten voters and win elections.

They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism — which is financed by our own oil purchases — but let’s not do one serious thing about ending our oil addiction.

I am really hoping that Americans see the Bush Administration for what it is--a lying sack of poop. It is far more imporant for them to attack their critics than to fix what is wrong in Iraq. Does this make any sense to you Bush supporters?

Lastly, this is my favorite paragraph of his article:

Donald Rumsfeld demonizes war critics as “morally confused.” But it is the “moral confusion” at the heart of the Bush policy — a confusion between its important ends and insufficient means — that has hobbled us from the start. It truly, truly baffles me why a president who bet so much of his legacy on this project never gave it his best shot and tolerated so much incompetence. He summoned us to D-Day and gave us the moral equivalent of the invasion of Panama.

Tom Friedman, you have hit the nail on the head, my friend. It baffles the hell out of me too!

aps · Sep 10, 2006

I guess I should have known that none of the Bushaholics would be able to refute Friedman's findings. Thanks for confirming this for me. LOL

Mr.Clover · Sep 10, 2006

and let’s have an unprecedented wartime tax cut and shrink our armed forces.

Tax cuts are good.

and shrink our armed forces.

Last Months's Navy Times says the Armed Forces are growing. Explain that?

and never control Iraq’s borders, its ammo dumps or its looters.

Thats what the iraqi government is supposed to do. All an invading nation has to do is capture the other nation's leader and your job is done. Soldiers aren't policemen!

They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but rather than bring Democrats and Republicans together in a national unity war coalition, let’s use the war as a wedge issue to embarrass Democrats, frighten voters and win elections.

At least one party has shown they care about their power. And I say Bush could go lower and really make this election interesting. These American elections are so boring compared to those in europe, makes me want to lay down and go to sleep.

They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism — which is financed by our own oil purchases — but let’s not do one serious thing about ending our oil addiction.

I wonder if thats why the gas prices are so high. The higher they are the less people will buy and make it a bit easier for the soldiers fight over there....... either way, I kind of agree with you there.

aps · Sep 10, 2006

Mr.Clover said:
Tax cuts are good.

During a time of war?? You're kidding me, right?

Mr.Clover · Sep 10, 2006

no.....I like tax cuts. Tax cuts let me have more money than usual so that I can spend more on luxuries Who doesn't like that?

Iriemon · Sep 11, 2006

Mr.Clover said:
no.....I like tax cuts. Tax cuts let me have more money than usual so that I can spend more on luxuries Who doesn't like that?

Future taxpayers who will have to pay higher taxes for the interest on the debt so you could have a tax deferrement, I mean, "cut"?

aps · Sep 11, 2006

Iriemon said:
Future taxpayers who will have to pay higher taxes for the interest on the debt so you could have a tax deferrement, I mean, "cut"?

Iriemon, most republicans don't care about what future taxpayers will have to pay; rather, they just care what helps them. It never ceases to amaze me.

Iriemon · Sep 11, 2006

aps said:
Iriemon, most republicans don't care about what future taxpayers will have to pay; rather, they just care what helps them. It never ceases to amaze me.

As a former Republican and fiscal conservative, it never ceases to amaze me either. I keep hoping that there really has not been this massive change towards irresponsibility by the party that supports "family values," and the problem is that most current Republicans simply do not understand that this Govt is borrowing huge sums of money every year because of the tax cuts.

But you could be right.

Ivan The Terrible · Sep 11, 2006

Iriemon said:
As a former Republican and fiscal conservative, it never ceases to amaze me either. I keep hoping that there really has not been this massive change towards irresponsibility by the party that supports "family values," and the problem is that most current Republicans simply do not understand that this Govt is borrowing huge sums of money every year because of the tax cuts.

But you could be right.

You are right gov spending needs to be cut. I just wish we could do it already.

Mr.Clover · Sep 11, 2006

Iriemon said:
this Govt is borrowing huge sums of money every year because of the tax cuts.

Yea, but seriously, who gives a dam*? There's been a debt ever since the revolution and there is always going to be one, we might as well be gald that we finally have a break on our taxes and enjoy it for as long as we can.

Iriemon · Sep 11, 2006

Mr.Clover said:
Yea, but seriously, who gives a dam*? There's been a debt ever since the revolution and there is always going to be one, we might as well be gald that we finally have a break on our taxes and enjoy it for as long as we can.

That prevailing attitude is why the debt has increased 50% in the last 4 years -- almost 3 trillion dollars.

And why ours is the pass the buck generation.

Mr.Clover · Sep 11, 2006

Iriemon said:
That prevailing attitude is why the debt has increased 50% in the last 4 years -- almost 3 trillion dollars.

So? What if we some how decide not to pay our debt at all? What are other countries going to do about it, send us to prison? Right now the debt is, 0, I don't owe anybody, anything.

Iriemon · Sep 11, 2006

Originally Posted by Iriemon
That prevailing attitude is why the debt has increased 50% in the last 4 years -- almost 3 trillion dollars.

Mr.Clover said:
So? What if we some how decide not to pay our debt at all? What are other countries going to do about it, send us to prison? Right now the debt is, 0, I don't owe anybody, anything.

Particularly acute case -- the plan is to slash taxes, run up debt, and default.

I don't think defaulting on the debt is a strategy any serious economist would recommend. People would probably be a little hesitant about lending the US Govt more money or relying on it for the value of the dollar. The dollar would collapse. The price of imports would skyrocket in the US. Worldwide financial depression. Things like that.

ProudAmerican · Sep 12, 2006

Iriemon said:
Future taxpayers who will have to pay higher taxes for the interest on the debt so you could have a tax deferrement, I mean, "cut"?

if you were half as worried about our future children having to deal with the problems with terrorits as you are with them dealing with the debt then I might start to think you are capable of bipartisanship.

ProudAmerican · Sep 12, 2006

Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, and let’s have an unprecedented wartime tax cut and shrink our armed forces.

tax cuts arent the problem. spending is the problem. and im not talking about national defense spending.

They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but let’s send just enough troops to topple Saddam — and never control Iraq’s borders, its ammo dumps or its looters.

mistakes have been made in this war. mainly by MILITARY PLANNERS. and if you dont think we are in for the fight of our lives against islamic facism, you are delusional. Also, I would state that anything we do in the fight against terrorists is better than what we did in the prior 8 years, which was next to nothing. its hard to criticize the previous administrations mistakes in the fight against terror, when there was no real fight against terror.

They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism, but rather than bring Democrats and Republicans together in a national unity war coalition, let’s use the war as a wedge issue to embarrass Democrats, frighten voters and win elections.

lmao. yeah, the republicans have been "divisive" while the dems have done their best to "unite" the country in our struggle against islamic terror.
LMAO.
you partisan nutjobs just kill me

They told us we are in the fight of our lives against a new Islamic fascism — which is financed by our own oil purchases — but let’s not do one serious thing about ending our oil addiction.

show me a democrat that has the solution and he just might get my vote in the next election.
show me a democrat that is willing to use our own resources here at home, rather than cater to the envornmentalist nutjobs that have handcuffed us into this problem, and he just might get my vote.

Mr.Clover · Sep 12, 2006

Iriemon said:
Particularly acute case -- the plan is to slash taxes, run up debt, and default.

I don't think defaulting on the debt is a strategy any serious economist would recommend. People would probably be a little hesitant about lending the US Govt more money or relying on it for the value of the dollar. The dollar would collapse. The price of imports would skyrocket in the US. Worldwide financial depression. Things like that.

Well, lets hope it doesn't happen in my generation, right now, I want to buy my $1,200 fancy chandalier.

Iriemon · Sep 12, 2006

ProudAmerican said:
if you were half as worried about our future children having to deal with the problems with terrorits as you are with them dealing with the debt then I might start to think you are capable of bipartisanship.

Another pass the bucker chimes in. Don't worry about borrowing, worry about the terrorists!

Our children will have to deal with problems with terrorists and a host of other things. But at the rate our govt is borrowing they woin't be able to afford to fight them.

ProudAmerican · Sep 12, 2006

Iriemon said:
Another pass the bucker chimes in. Don't worry about borrowing, worry about the terrorists!

Our children will have to deal with problems with terrorists and a host of other things. But at the rate our govt is borrowing they woin't be able to afford to fight them.

which buck is worse to pass on? the one of taxes, or the one of mass destruction by islamofacists?

pass the buck indeed. and all this time you had no idea you were a member of that group as well eh?

Iriemon · Sep 12, 2006

ProudAmerican said:
which buck is worse to pass on? the one of taxes, or the one of mass destruction by islamofacists?

America alwasys has and always will have enemies. And if we don't have them, we make them.

pass the buck indeed. and all this time you had no idea you were a member of that group as well eh?

It is my generation, I'm afraid. Pretty shameful, I agree.

ProudAmerican · Sep 12, 2006

America alwasys has and always will have enemies. And if we don't have them, we make them.

talk about passing the buck!!!!

what an answer.

It is my generation, I'm afraid. Pretty shameful, I agree.

at least you admit you are part of the problem.

Navy Pride · Sep 12, 2006

Liberals worry about passing the debt on to our childrens......What they forget is if Islamic fanatics get their way there won't be any kids to pass it on too........

Iriemon · Sep 12, 2006

Navy Pride said:
Liberals worry about passing the debt on to our childrens......What they forget is if Islamic fanatics get their way there won't be any kids to pass it on too........

Sure thing pops. Instead of raising taxes and paying for our own expenses to fight wars, just "charge it" and pass the buck. After all, you won't be around to have to deal with the consequences of the debt.

Great "family value" there.

ProudAmerican · Sep 12, 2006

Iriemon said:
Sure thing pops. Instead of raising taxes and paying for our own expenses to fight wars, just "charge it" and pass the buck. After all, you won't be around to have to deal with the consequences of the debt.

Great "family value" there.

much better family value to allow our children to have to deal with the problem of islamofacism.

aps · Sep 13, 2006

Well, I want to know what the Bush apologists think of Friedman's statements about why Bush didn't put his all into this war if this was going to be his legacy. What do you all think about that?

ProudAmerican · Sep 13, 2006

since im not a "Bush Apologist" I suppose I will pass.

I am an unconditional supporter in the war against the people that killed 3,000 innocent civilians.

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