The break up of the 50 states. Possible?

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 17, 2007

Is there a chance that any of the US 50 states might break away? especially considering California as a first alternative state who would try something like this. If California tried, what would top the Yankee states from trying? Northeast US turning into one country of their own.

Is there any chance that there will be a break up of the federal Unites states in the future, where it might become 49 states or 45 states or divide into several countries/entities/federal states?

You guys are so unsimilar, what do a guy in New York have in common with someone from Texas? What do a guy in Montana have in common with someine from California?

Just, out of all the options, if you think there is a chance the US as 50 states will not last, vote for "break up" and explain. If you believe the US will remain as it is vote no.

ARealConservative · Feb 17, 2007

Highly doubtful. Given our betrayal of decentralized government I could see a strong desire for succession at some point but the federal government would again do anything possible to prevent it.

The only way it could succeed is if the country goes bankrupt, which isn't happening in any of our lifetimes.

Kandahar · Feb 17, 2007

Eventually, yes. Look at a map of the world from 100 years ago. How many of those countries have the same borders that they do now? Only a few. Now look at a map from 500 years ago. How many of those countries have the same borders that they do now? Almost none.

History would indicate that the United States is no different from any other country, and WILL eventually break apart.

However, it's not going to happen in the near future. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 17, 2007

ARealConservative said:
Highly doubtful. Given our betrayal of decentralized government I could see a strong desire for succession at some point but the federal government would again do anything possible to prevent it.

The only way it could succeed is if the country goes bankrupt, which isn't happening in any of our lifetimes.

I am just looking specifically at California for example, a state that is very against the Iraq war, California is a very "independent" state in many ways already and have most the traits of a country.

Is it not possible that California as example could get fed up with US policies, internal or external? Could this possibly lead to a "vote" for independence? How would the federation stop something like this? California as an example also is completely different from the rest of the US states.

I dont know, it was just something that struck my mind, and I thought specifically about California and concluded with myself that they could do something like this in the future, judging by the cold relation between California and the federal government. Could it also be that such a thing could have a "domino effect"?

Kandahar · Feb 17, 2007

Maximus Zeebra said:
I am just looking specifically at California for example, a state that is very against the Iraq war, California is a very "independent" state in many ways already and have most the traits of a country.

Is it not possible that California as example could get fed up with US policies, internal or external? Could this possibly lead to a "vote" for independence? How would the federation stop something like this? California as an example also is completely different from the rest of the US states.

I dont know, it was just something that struck my mind, and I thought specifically about California and concluded with myself that they could do something like this in the future, judging by the cold relation between California and the federal government. Could it also be that such a thing could have a "domino effect"?

I think you're greatly overestimating the degree to which political views vary from one part of the United States to another. The states are much more interconnected than the countries of the EU; there is zero possibility of what you're suggesting happening anytime in the foreseeable future.

Inuyasha · Feb 17, 2007

At this point, although there is a possibility, it is not something to worry about. Although one can see the where the cracks are and where others may occur.

1. The secessionist party is growing in the South. The reasons are different than 1860 but the new reasons seem valid ti the believers in succession from the Union-

2. We have language and ethnic divides that other countries in the Americas no longer suffer from to the same degree.

3, Regional differences also could be a factor as someone mentioned the pacific North West and California. Often when I am in Washington or Oregon I feel like I am in Canada among Canadians as much as I feel i am in the US, for example. In the South I sometimes feel the hostility and am a fish out of water.

4. Further economic situations and conditions might also be a factor.

I am sure others can come up with several more conditions that could make the split up possible but no probable in the foreseeable future.

TheHarshTruth · Feb 17, 2007

The states with lots of universities, young people, and a high population of foreigners and first generation kids, such as on the west coast, would certainly like to dump the rest of the country. Many in these western states, like California, view the rest of the country as conservative free-loaders. And they are right. For instance California year after year throws tens of billions of dollars to the federal government to help out the rest of the country. Do they get any thanks for it. (See California's Balance of Payments with the Federal Treasury, Fiscal Years 1981-2003 -- A Special Report by the California Institute for Federal Policy Research to see what I mean. America spends more money on the military than all the other countries combined and California keeps the rest of the country afloat by it's enormous economy. The only thing beating California's donations to the federal government is the borrowing the federal government does for itself.) You'd think the rest of the country would be happy but no. The rest of the country says California has an "activist" supreme court. That it's too liberal. That, well, it's infested with Californians who can't think straight. I guess the rest of the country must be right or Californians would say good riddance to the rest of the freeloading states that make up this country. However that won't happen. Californians know they'd be nuked back to the stone age by the conservative states if they ever tried to leave.

Dezaad · Feb 17, 2007

Inuyasha mentions the Southerners wanting to possibly secede. I think in many ways we may have made a mistake in dragging them back into the Union. I think perhaps I would encourage them to secede now, and certainly wouldn't now advocate fighting a war to make them come back. We could have free trade with them, maybe even a common currency, but let them have their own Constitution with their own ideas concerning liberty (authoritarian theocracy = liberty to them, apparently).

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 17, 2007

Kandahar said:
I think you're greatly overestimating the degree to which political views vary from one part of the United States to another. The states are much more interconnected than the countries of the EU; there is zero possibility of what you're suggesting happening anytime in the foreseeable future.

I am not saying it will happen in the foreseeable future, what this thread is about, is if it COULD happen. I see the chance of it happening as very slim but much higher than for example 30 or 100 years ago.

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 17, 2007

TheHarshTruth said:
The states with lots of universities, young people, and a high population of foreigners and first generation kids, such as on the west coast, would certainly like to dump the rest of the country. Many in these western states, like California, view the rest of the country as conservative free-loaders. And they are right. For instance California year after year throws tens of billions of dollars to the federal government to help out the rest of the country. Do they get any thanks for it. (See California's Balance of Payments with the Federal Treasury, Fiscal Years 1981-2003 -- A Special Report by the California Institute for Federal Policy Research to see what I mean. America spends more money on the military than all the other countries combined and California keeps the rest of the country afloat by it's enormous economy. The only thing beating California's donations to the federal government is the borrowing the federal government does for itself.) You'd think the rest of the country would be happy but no. The rest of the country says California has an "activist" supreme court. That it's too liberal. That, well, it's infested with Californians who can't think straight. I guess the rest of the country must be right or Californians would say good riddance to the rest of the freeloading states that make up this country. However that won't happen. Californians know they'd be nuked back to the stone age by the conservative states if they ever tried to leave.

Thats a good perspective, but I dont agree with the end, of course the US would not bomb them. Montenegro wasnt bombed by Serbia.

California certainly have the means "to live on their own" and certainly have several good arguments for it.(?) What would be the advatages and disadvantages of California becoming their own country?

A few facts about California.

GDP 1.5 trillion $.(compared to Italy 1.75 trillion and Canada of 1.125 trillion)
Population of almost 34 million compared to Canada almost 33 million and Spain of almost 45 million)
GDP per capita of 44.117 $, highest in the world after Luxembourg, together with Ireland and Norway at around 44k each per capita.

Kandahar · Feb 17, 2007

Maximus Zeebra said:
Thats a good perspective, but I dont agree with the end, of course the US would not bomb them. Montenegro wasnt bombed by Serbia.

California certainly have the means "to live on their own" and certainly have several good arguments for it.(?) What would be the advatages and disadvantages of California becoming their own country?

I can't think of any advantages...there isn't even any desire among Californians for independence, aside from the usual fringe movements that exist everywhere in the world.

Maximus Zeebra said:
A few facts about California.

GDP 1.5 trillion $.(compared to Italy 1.75 trillion and Canada of 1.125 trillion)
Population of almost 34 million compared to Canada almost 33 million and Spain of almost 45 million)
GDP per capita of 44.117 $, highest in the world after Luxembourg, together with Ireland and Norway at around 44k each per capita.

What do these figures have to do with whether or not it should be its own country?

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 17, 2007

Kandahar said:
I can't think of any advantages...there isn't even any desire among Californians for independence, aside from the usual fringe movements that exist everywhere in the world.

They could completely control their own politics, they could control the taxes, they wouldnt have to contribute to fix the US debt problem when it hits them.
They would be free to make California into what it wants to be, it could be a superliberal supercountry, they wouldnt be held back by a conservative US anymore, nor held back by the US government.

Kandahar said:
What do these figures have to do with whether or not it should be its own country?

Just to show it could..

Kandahar · Feb 17, 2007

Maximus Zeebra said:
They could completely control their own politics, they could control the taxes,

Since there isn't already a strong independence movement, this obviously isn't a big concern for Californians.

Maximus Zeebra said:
they wouldnt have to contribute to fix the US debt problem when it hits them.

Well that wouldn't really be fair, since some of the US expenses have gone to California, and since California did its part to elect pro-debt legislators.

Maximus Zeebra said:
They would be free to make California into what it wants to be, it could be a superliberal supercountry, they wouldnt be held back by a conservative US anymore, nor held back by the US government.

Your view of California is obviously a stereotype of Hollywood, by someone who has never been to California. It's slightly left-of-center for the United States, but if you think it would be a "superliberal supercountry" (as though ANY extreme ideology could produce a "supercountry"), you're quite wrong.

Maximus Zeebra said:
Just to show it could..

California is free to pursue almost any policies it wants, in terms of spending. If California wants to give its residents universal health care, free university education, expanded social security, and/or a $20 minimum wage, the US government won't stop them.

Jerry · Feb 17, 2007

Maximus Zeebra said:
The break up of the 50 states. Possible?

No, not at all.
The US is being transformed into a part of the North American Union.

Sources:
Report to Leaders

North American Competitiveness Council Promotes Regional Growth

Congressional Record of the 76th Congress, Third Session :: General Reference :: Law Research Group

"british israel world federation" - Google Search

british anglo israel - Google Search

Bush Administration Fast Tracks Formation of the North American Union by Jerome R. Corsi - HUMAN EVENTS

Social Security Agreement With Mexico Released After 3 1/2 Year Freedom of Information Act Battle

Related sources:
LiveScience.com - Chips with Medical Records to be Implanted in 280 Patients

LiveScience.com - Proposal to Implant Tracking Chips in Immigrants

LiveScience.com - Chip Implants Proposed To Halt Blackmarket Cadaver Trade

Navy Pride · Feb 17, 2007

Maximus Zeebra said:
Is there a chance that any of the US 50 states might break away? especially considering California as a first alternative state who would try something like this. If California tried, what would top the Yankee states from trying? Northeast US turning into one country of their own.

Is there any chance that there will be a break up of the federal Unites states in the future, where it might become 49 states or 45 states or divide into several countries/entities/federal states?

You guys are so unsimilar, what do a guy in New York have in common with someone from Texas? What do a guy in Montana have in common with someine from California?

Just, out of all the options, if you think there is a chance the US as 50 states will not last, vote for "break up" and explain. If you believe the US will remain as it is vote no.

No chance of that happening....State would want to miss getting all the money and freebes they get from the Federal Government......

cherokee · Feb 18, 2007

Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
Is there a chance that any of the US 50 states might break away? especially considering California as a first alternative state who would try something like this. If California tried, what would top the Yankee states from trying? Northeast US turning into one country of their own.

Is there any chance that there will be a break up of the federal Unites states in the future, where it might become 49 states or 45 states or divide into several countries/entities/federal states?

You guys are so unsimilar, what do a guy in New York have in common with someone from Texas? What do a guy in Montana have in common with someine from California?

Just, out of all the options, if you think there is a chance the US as 50 states will not last, vote for "break up" and explain. If you believe the US will remain as it is vote no.

Sure. When Islam rules the world, which will be NEVER.
So thats a NO vote...

Thelost1 · Feb 18, 2007

No.

The states in America are very different from neighboring countries in the rest of the world. For example, a Brit probably has parents living in Britian, siblings living in Britain, and an entire extended family (in Britain). In America, it is quite differant.

I, for example have ties to all of the East Coast, all of the West coast, and a few states in the middle. Family members, friends, whatever, of mine reside all over the country, if California split off, it would take my Mom's family with it (along with spliting countless other families).

Additionally, i have little loyalty to my state. I like Washington and all, and Seattle is a great place to be, but I have no doubts that i will go to college, graduate school, and eventually start a family in some oter part of the US.

Another problem with this is dependancy. recently, California recivied a huge amount of electricity from neighboring states. Same with Las Vegas in Arizona, they have a shortage of water, and have to import it.

lastly, the culture of America doesn't really differ that much from place to place. if you, for example, were into jazz, you could go to any reasonably sized town and find a jazz community. The rest of the city would then fade somewhat into the background.

All in all, I find your assessment utterly ridiculous, come live in America a while and stop making comments like this that show a general lack of understanding about our country.

Sergeant Stinger1 · Feb 18, 2007

Seems all the states bodering with Mexico have allready surcumed to Mexico. Just a matter of time before they will become part of Mexico. My guess will be as soon as the illegal Mexicans bankrupt us they will add these states to the new and stronger country of MET-HE-CO and also take all of their Con friends with them. Starting with Georgy boy and the American Capitalist company Pigs.

Thelost1 · Feb 18, 2007

stinger1 said:
Seems all the states bodering with Mexico have allready surcumed to Mexico. Just a matter of time before they will become part of Mexico. My guess will be as soon as the illegal Mexicans bankrupt us they will add these states to the new and stronger country of MET-HE-CO and also take all of their Con friends with them. Starting with Georgy boy and the American Capitalist company Pigs.

*Sniff*

*Sniff*

"I smell troll!"

Maximus Zeebra · Feb 18, 2007

Thelost1 said:
No.

The states in America are very different from neighboring countries in the rest of the world. For example, a Brit probably has parents living in Britian, siblings living in Britain, and an entire extended family (in Britain). In America, it is quite differant.

I, for example have ties to all of the East Coast, all of the West coast, and a few states in the middle. Family members, friends, whatever, of mine reside all over the country, if California split off, it would take my Mom's family with it (along with spliting countless other families).

Additionally, i have little loyalty to my state. I like Washington and all, and Seattle is a great place to be, but I have no doubts that i will go to college, graduate school, and eventually start a family in some oter part of the US.

Another problem with this is dependancy. recently, California recivied a huge amount of electricity from neighboring states. Same with Las Vegas in Arizona, they have a shortage of water, and have to import it.

lastly, the culture of America doesn't really differ that much from place to place. if you, for example, were into jazz, you could go to any reasonably sized town and find a jazz community. The rest of the city would then fade somewhat into the background.

All in all, I find your assessment utterly ridiculous, come live in America a while and stop making comments like this that show a general lack of understanding about our country.

Well, I have lived In America for awhile.

I find that you could divide the country into 4 VERY different parts, where almost everything differs, especially culture, the way of life ins just completely different.

Northeast states(new England)
Westcoast States Californina especially.
Southern inland states + Southcoast states.
Northern and central Inland states.

Kandahar · Feb 18, 2007

Maximus Zeebra said:
Well, I have lived In America for awhile.

I find that you could divide the country into 4 VERY different parts, where almost everything differs, especially culture, the way of life ins just completely different.

Northeast states(new England)
Westcoast States Californina especially.
Southern inland states + Southcoast states.
Northern and central Inland states.

I'm sorry, I just don't believe that any European who has lived in the United States could possibly reach that conclusion. There are a lot more cultural differences going 300 miles from Madrid to Barcelona, than there is going 2,000 miles from Atlanta to Seattle, or 1,500 miles from Houston to Boston.

I think you overestimate how different American cities are. If you dropped me off in a random European metropolis, I could probably tell you where I was within an hour (without signs/maps/people). If you dropped me off in a random American metropolis, I probably wouldn't even be able to tell you what PART of the country I was in. And I've spent a lot more time in American cities than European cities.

Hatuey · Feb 18, 2007

Maximus Zeebra said:
Well, I have lived In America for awhile.

I find that you could divide the country into 4 VERY different parts, where almost everything differs, especially culture, the way of life ins just completely different.

Northeast states(new England)
Westcoast States Californina especially.
Southern inland states + Southcoast states.
Northern and central Inland states.

You know very little. Every state in the U.S. is different. The people are different. Alabama and Georgia are nothing alike and both are part of the old south. Texas and New Mexico dont even come close to eachother. Every single part of this country has something that makes it unique. The women are different. The people are different. A dude from Boston will kick the living **** out of you if you confuse his accent with that of a New Yorker. Same thing with California if you can't tell the different between somebody from Compton and someone from Long Beach you'll be in some serious trouble if you say the wrong things. The way people in cities act is very different. Shottown(Chicago) and Detroit are nothing alike even if they're not that far from eachother. People in Florida and Georgia are nothing alike and they're right next to eachother. Please. Just because you lived here for 5 months or w/e "months" dont pretend like you know much about our country.

cherokee · Feb 18, 2007

Hatuey said:
You know very little. Every state in the U.S. is different. The people are different. Alabama and Georgia are nothing alike and both are part of the old south. Texas and New Mexico dont even come close to eachother. Every single part of this country has something that makes it unique. The women are different. The people are different. A dude from Boston will kick the living **** out of you if you confuse his accent with that of a New Yorker. Same thing with California if you can't tell the different between somebody from Compton and someone from Long Beach you'll be in some serious trouble if you say the wrong things. The way people in cities act is very different. Shottown(Chicago) and Detroit are nothing alike even if they're not that far from eachother. People in Florida and Georgia are nothing alike and they're right next to eachother. Please. Just because you lived here for 5 months or w/e "months" dont pretend like you know much about our country.

Just to add to his post
we are all different but we are all

Americans.

1069 · Feb 18, 2007

If you dropped me off in a random American metropolis, I probably wouldn't even be able to tell you what PART of the country I was in (unless everyone talked with a Southern accent :lol: ).

And Southern accents are less common and less pronounced than one might expect in major metropolitan areas even in the deep South; because cities tend to attract emigrants from elsewhere, even native residents take on a more cosmopolitan (or, at least, a more geographically ambiguous/generic) flavor due to their constant exposure to newcomers from other geographical locales, other nationalities and cultures.
If a native urban dweller anywhere has a Southern accent (which is, at bottom, a rural accent), it is generally because they have deliberately cultivated it.

Kandahar · Feb 18, 2007

1069 said:
And Southern accents are less common and less pronounced than one might expect in major metropolitan areas even in the deep South; because cities tend to attract emigrants from elsewhere, even native residents take on a more cosmopolitan (or, at least, a more geographically ambiguous/generic) flavor due to their constant exposure to newcomers from other geographical locales, other nationalities and cultures.
If a native urban dweller anywhere has a Southern accent (which is, at bottom, a rural accent), it is generally because they have deliberately cultivated it.

Exactly. I'm not sure there are any big cultural differences from one region of the country to another. The only exception might be Hawaii. But other than that, I don't think there are many cultural practices in one part of the country that would seem totally alien to people in another part. At least, nothing that can't be explained by the urban/rural divide rather than geography.

Even areas that are somehow unique - Utah, Alaska, Miami - aren't really that different in the grand scheme of things.

The break up of the 50 states. Possible?

Is there any chance the US federation wil break apart in the future?

No, no chance at all. Give reason..

Not really, it might happen someday. Explain..

Perhaps it could happen. Explain..

Probably. Explain..

Yes, some states will probably go independant.

Yes, a few states might create their own federation.

Yes, someday California and the Northeast will, definetely.

The US will dissolve someday and become several federations.

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