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The Bible Is Satan’s Masterpiece!

RAMOSS said:
why, in this case, yes it does. The authors of the Gospels were in the Roman culture, Mark allegedly lived in near Rome, and the exact lanaguage of the Cult of the Caesars was used, and even the same terminology. I do love how the goal posts has sifted from "no other religion has 'xyz' " to 'You can prove they actually borrowed xyz'.
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That's hilarious. Just because someone lives in a different culture they have to believe like that culture. No wonder you're lost on that.

<facepalm>
 
Logicman said:
That's hilarious. Just because someone lives in a different culture they have to believe like that culture. No wonder you're lost on that.

<facepalm>
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How amusing. The thing is, when it comes to the authors of the gospels, it wasn't 'a different culture'. it was THEIR culture that they grew up in. Do you think that the culture they grew up in would not influence them?

I love how you are denying denying denying. The defense mechanisms that happen when exposed to information is astounding.
 
devildavid said:
You keep emphasizing the flogging and ignoring the common perils of travel, which made up the bulk of what Paul was talking about. But there is also plenty of other biblical evidence that those times included things like flogging and other public forms of punishment. Christians were not unique in receiving such treatment.
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Finally, you admit floggings, beatings, and stoning were in fact, not common. Thank you.

To the perils of traveling, of course the more you travel the more danger you are in. I don't doubt that a first century grain ship was far more likely to be pirated than the Norwegian cruise line. And Paul, spending the second half of his life traveling from town to town was under threats of danger and sickness as a result. That part likely was common to travelers - except Paul, as a roman citizen tentmaker however, volunteered out of a quiet life in order to risk life and limb for a cause he obviously believed in. Nothing wrong with that.
 
nota bene said:
Your soul is as precious to our Father as any other.
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This is what I've been trying to tell you as well, @nota bene . Religion does nothing but isolate people. It's a community of haters. How may times have you all prayed to "save the evil Democrats soul"?

Like The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem Witch trials, in history, religion has been nothing but a weapon to perpetuate warfare against those with whom people disagree.

You don't support isolating and vilifying over half the country. You don't hate the majority of Americans. Please tell us you don't.
 
Mulefoot said:
Finally, you admit floggings, beatings, and stoning were in fact, not common. Thank you.

To the perils of traveling, of course the more you travel the more danger you are in. I don't doubt that a first century grain ship was far more likely to be pirated than the Norwegian cruise line. And Paul, spending the second half of his life traveling from town to town was under threats of danger and sickness as a result. That part likely was common to travelers - except Paul, as a roman citizen tentmaker however, volunteered out of a quiet life in order to risk life and limb for a cause he obviously believed in. Nothing wrong with that.
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No, I did no such thing, and you know that. But nice try at trickery and intellectual dishonesty. The bible itself has many examples of physical punishment being meted out for various perceived offenses. Nothing that happened to Paul was out of the ordinary for someone traveling to strange lands.

Paul did not volunteer, he wanted to be influential, he wanted to be a top authoritative voice in the nascent religion. You have created a false narrative due to you bias of believing in the religion. Paul is a hero to you who is as perfect as he presented himself to those he wanted to convert.
 
devildavid said:
No, I did no such thing, and you know that. But nice try at trickery and intellectual dishonesty. The bible itself has many examples of physical punishment being meted out for various perceived offenses. Nothing that happened to Paul was out of the ordinary for someone traveling to strange lands.

Paul did not volunteer, he wanted to be influential, he wanted to be a top authoritative voice in the nascent religion. You have created a false narrative due to you bias of believing in the religion. Paul is a hero to you who is as perfect as he presented himself to those he wanted to convert.
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Link?
 
devildavid said:
Your link?
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No, I need to see a citation on Paul's desires to be influential, and to be a "top authoritative voice in the nascent religion".

I'm not going to respond to crap thrown against the wall, but I will address a source of some kind if you have one.
 
Mulefoot said:
No, I need to see a citation on Paul's desires to be influential, and to be a "top authoritative voice in the nascent religion".

I'm not going to respond to crap thrown against the wall, but I will address a source of some kind if you have one.
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No, I need to see a citation that Paul was living a quiet life and volunteered to do what he did and who it was that got him to volunteer.

I'm not going to respond to the crap thrown against the wall, but I will add a source of some kind if you have one.
 
devildavid said:
No, I need to see a citation that Paul was living a quiet life and volunteered to do what he did and who it was that got him to volunteer.

I'm not going to respond to the crap thrown against the wall, but I will add a source of some kind if you have one.
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That's not actually how debate works.

"When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo"

Burden of proof (philosophy) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

You made the claim that "Paul did not volunteer, he wanted to be influential, he wanted to be a top authoritative voice in the nascent religion."

It's your claim, back it up.
 
Mulefoot said:
That's not actually how debate works.

"When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo"

Burden of proof (philosophy) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

You made the claim that "Paul did not volunteer, he wanted to be influential, he wanted to be a top authoritative voice in the nascent religion."

It's your claim, back it up.
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So, you got nothing. Ok then.
 
Mulefoot said:
No, I need to see a citation on Paul's desires to be influential, and to be a "top authoritative voice in the nascent religion".

I'm not going to respond to crap thrown against the wall, but I will address a source of some kind if you have one.
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THe fact he wrote so many letters to folks tell me that.
 
Mulefoot said:
So we know Moses wanted to be influential because he wrote five books?
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Well, that is the tradition,but I personally suspect he did not actually write those books. It seems to have been compiled in the 6th century bce, centuries after the time frame it was supposed to have been written.
 
devildavid said:
With Paul's letter in the bible, you have nothing but his word. Paul was a stranger to every land he went to to convert people. They didn't have mass media back then announcing the arrival of the famous Paul the Christian preacher. I am not making any accusations, I am taking your slim bit of evidence and coming to reasonable conclusions. Paul made zero claims that his experience was unique or that he knew everyone in all the places he traveled to. How could he know them when he was on a mission to convert people to a new religion? Paul made zero claims that all his hardships were caused by his preaching or that he even traveled alone. You are reading things into Paul's letter that aren't even there because of your belief in your religion.
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This is a utter mess of a post David, as you're wrong on about every count. Paul was certainly not a stranger to the Jews, being a former Pharisee from the tribe of Benjamin himself. He was beaten by the Jews, arrested by the Jews and spent two years in a prison in Caesarea (a town in Israel and home of the Roman governors in Judea), per his writings and confirmed by Luke as well. Yes, for specifically trying to preach to the establishment religion.
 
Mulefoot said:
So we know Moses wanted to be influential because he wrote five books?
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And that he is described as a leader of his people. Also, he inscribed rules on stone tablets and attributed them to god in order to gain control over his rather unruly people. So it is quite apparent from the bible stories that he wanted to be influential.
 
Logicman said:
You don't believe the Jewish scriptures.
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Why would anybody believe that a temple cult that revolved around animal sacrifice had the answers to everything
 
devildavid said:
And that he is described as a leader of his people. Also, he inscribed rules on stone tablets and attributed them to god in order to gain control over his rather unruly people. So it is quite apparent from the bible stories that he wanted to be influential.
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And yet anyone halfway familiar with the story of Moses would know that Moses repeatedly wanted to shirk the responsibility of leadership because he wasn't an eloquent speaker.

It's literally like you're trying to be wrong on this stuff.
 
Mulefoot said:
This is a utter mess of a post David, as you're wrong on about every count. Paul was certainly not a stranger to the Jews, being a former Pharisee from the tribe of Benjamin himself. He was beaten by the Jews, arrested by the Jews and spent two years in a prison in Caesarea (a town in Israel and home of the Roman governors in Judea), per his writings and confirmed by Luke as well. Yes, for specifically trying to preach to the establishment religion.
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Paul traveled extensively to far off areas to try to make converts. His focus was on converting Gentiles, not Jews. He spent much of his time with Gentiles. Not likely that all those people knew him before he arrived. Some of them accepted him, and some did not. His travels brought him the hardships of travels at the time. Those who accepted his message surely didn't beat him or punish him. He actually helped to get a nascent religion started, so he did have supporters.

Once again, you focus on one small part of Paul's ministry and try to paint it as the whole thing. You make it sound as if it was a constant struggle against unyielding opposition. If that were the case, his name would not be know today.
 
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