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The bi-partisan effort to take down Nina Turner

Dans La Lune

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Hillary Clinton, James Clyburn and the Democratic Establishment have joined forces with Fox News and Big Oil -- among many others -- to take down the progressive warrior, Nina Turner, who seeks to replace Marcia Judge's Ohio congressional seat. The alternative is a bought-and-paid-for corporate smear-stooge who literally uses canned applause at her rallies.


 

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Hillary Clinton, James Clyburn and the Democratic Establishment have joined forces with Fox News and Big Oil -- among many others -- to take down the progressive warrior, Nina Turner, who seeks to replace Marcia Judge's Ohio congressional seat. The alternative is a bought-and-paid-for corporate smear-stooge who literally uses canned applause at her rallies.


Fake applause, fake endorsements, fake grassroots, fake smears, fake progressive.

Shontel's corporate backers as contrasted by Nina's union and grassroots support tell you everything you need to know, nevermind the obscene amounts of money coming out of the woodwork from the former at the 11th hour being sent Brown's way after Clinton and the rest of the establishment's endorsement.




 

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Hillary Clinton, James Clyburn and the Democratic Establishment have joined forces with Fox News and Big Oil -- among many others -- to take down the progressive warrior, Nina Turner, who seeks to replace Marcia Judge's Ohio congressional seat. The alternative is a bought-and-paid-for corporate smear-stooge who literally uses canned applause at her rallies.


Don't know anything about either of these candidates...since I'm not a party animal...but it appears that some people...people with a lot of money and influence...don't think Turner is the right kind of Democrat.

So it goes...
 

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While politically, I probably agree more with Turner than with Brown, Turner seems too much like a bomb thrower, like a left-wing Tea Partyer. I understand the Demicratic Party's opposition to her. People like to criticize political parties as elitist type clubs. But they perform an important gate keeping function. It wasn't so long ago that we had a similar discussion about Donald Trump, and Bernie Sanders. Neither showed any fealty to their respective political parties, yet people were shocked that the party didn't embrace them. Trump was able to overcome this situation and the nation may never recover from it. A warning we ignore at our peril.
 

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While politically, I probably agree more with Turner than with Brown, Turner seems too much like a bomb thrower, like a left-wing Tea Partyer. I understand the Demicratic Party's opposition to her. People like to criticize political parties as elitist type clubs. But they perform an important gate keeping function. It wasn't so long ago that we had a similar discussion about Donald Trump, and Bernie Sanders. Neither showed any fealty to their respective political parties, yet people were shocked that the party didn't embrace them. Trump was able to overcome this situation and the nation may never recover from it. A warning we ignore at our peril.

The only thing I got out of your post is that we need more Kirsten Sinemas and less Nina Turners.

Also, please tell me what is behind the gate the Dems are protecting. Seems to me like it's healthcare, a higher minimum wage, a sustainable green infrastructure, voting rights, etc.

Yes, Corporate Dems + Republicans, protect us from Nina Turner...
 

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Don't know anything about either of these candidates...since I'm not a party animal...but it appears that some people...people with a lot of money and influence...don't think Turner is the right kind of Democrat.

So it goes...

True, Nina Turner is not bought and paid for, like James Clyburn, Joe Manchin or Kirsten Sinema.
 

Craig234

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While politically, I probably agree more with Turner than with Brown, Turner seems too much like a bomb thrower, like a left-wing Tea Partyer. I understand the Demicratic Party's opposition to her. People like to criticize political parties as elitist type clubs. But they perform an important gate keeping function. It wasn't so long ago that we had a similar discussion about Donald Trump, and Bernie Sanders. Neither showed any fealty to their respective political parties, yet people were shocked that the party didn't embrace them. Trump was able to overcome this situation and the nation may never recover from it. A warning we ignore at our peril.

No, you don't understand the opposition. It's base on donor corruption and Hillary Clinton's petty grudge that Nina was Bernie's campaign manager, not some 'legitimate issue that she's a bomb thrower'.

I sure hope you are not praising the party's opposition to Bernie or comparing trump and Bernie.
 

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I sent a small donation to Turner minutes ago. It's a reminder how terrible Hillary is. Shamelessly corrupt and opposed to progressive policies. She gave us trump and hasn't apologized.
 

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Otherwise known as...

I sent a small donation to Turner minutes ago. It's a reminder how terrible Hillary is. Shamelessly corrupt and opposed to progressive policies. She gave us trump and hasn't apologized.

Don't expect an apology. She still thinks Bernie cost her the election.
 

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Supports higher taxes, "climate justice", national policing and socialized medicine. A true nutter. Probably supports racist organizations like BLM.

It's a solid "no" for me, dawg. If I lived in Ohio, which thankfully, I don't. Congress doesn't need another nutter. That should be her opponents slogan.




Hillary Clinton, James Clyburn and the Democratic Establishment have joined forces with Fox News and Big Oil -- among many others -- to take down the progressive warrior, Nina Turner, who seeks to replace Marcia Judge's Ohio congressional seat. The alternative is a bought-and-paid-for corporate smear-stooge who literally uses canned applause at her rallies.


 

Dans La Lune

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Supports higher taxes, "climate justice", national policing and socialized medicine. A true nutter. Probably supports racist organizations like BLM.

It's a solid "no" for me, dawg. If I lived in Ohio, which thankfully, I don't. Congress doesn't need another nutter. That should be her opponents slogan.

So you prefer the corporate establishment. Got it. Everyone is entitled to their preference.
 

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Yes, its a choice between a nutter or "corporate establishment". Boy, you nailed it.


So you prefer the corporate establishment. Got it. Everyone is entitled to their preference.
 

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Hillary Clinton, James Clyburn and the Democratic Establishment have joined forces with Fox News and Big Oil -- among many others -- to take down the progressive warrior, Nina Turner, who seeks to replace Marcia Judge's Ohio congressional seat. The alternative is a bought-and-paid-for corporate smear-stooge who literally uses canned applause at her rallies.


This OP is a bit hyperbolic.

These are two high quality candidates. Turner is in the Bernie Sanders wing of the party. Brown from the Biden wing. Both are strong progressives.

There is no more of a "bi-partisan" effort to "take down Turner" than there is a bipartisan effort against Brown. One could just as easily argue that the Sanders crowd is only slightly more loyal to the Democratic Party than the Trump crowd. This is just a primary battle between 2 really good, qualified liberal Democrats.

Look, the Bernie Bros need to stop this kind of nonsense.

And I say this as someone who has long viewed Nina Turner as a rising star in the party.
 

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This OP is a bit hyperbolic.

These are two high quality candidates. Turner is in the Bernie Sanders wing of the party. Brown from the Biden wing. Both are strong progressives.

There is no more of a "bi-partisan" effort to "take down Turner" than there is a bipartisan effort against Brown. One could just as easily argue that the Sanders crowd is only slightly more loyal to the Democratic Party than the Trump crowd. This is just a primary battle between 2 really good, qualified liberal Democrats.

Look, the Bernie Bros need to stop this kind of nonsense.

And I say this as someone who has long viewed Nina Turner as a rising star in the party.
Legitimately curious: what would you point to specifically to consider Brown a progressive? And if she is truly a progressive, why are all of these corporate special interests lined up so decisively behind her? Why is she immersed in quid pro quo with a major contractor? This is anathema to the progressive identity and cause: https://theintercept.com/2021/04/14/cleveland-cuyahoga-shontel-brown-contracts-nina-turner/

Second, I think it is absolutely troubling, and telling, that of the two candidates, Brown is swimming in corporate money and PACs which really only materialized after Clinton made her clarion warcry against Nina (and she effectively begged for their support: https://theintercept.com/2021/05/08/nina-turner-shontel-brown-super-pac/ ). Between this and Turner having the preponderance of union/labour endorsements, as well as Shontel's platform being substantially more tepid and the fundamental basis of her campaign being largely vaguery about how Nina is a divisive character and will work against Biden (as 'moderates' like Sinema and Manchin have actually been by far the worst for that).

While politically, I probably agree more with Turner than with Brown, Turner seems too much like a bomb thrower, like a left-wing Tea Partyer. I understand the Demicratic Party's opposition to her. People like to criticize political parties as elitist type clubs. But they perform an important gate keeping function. It wasn't so long ago that we had a similar discussion about Donald Trump, and Bernie Sanders. Neither showed any fealty to their respective political parties, yet people were shocked that the party didn't embrace them. Trump was able to overcome this situation and the nation may never recover from it. A warning we ignore at our peril.
Yes, that would be Brown's political framing which seems to be the entirety of her campaigning strategy rather than focusing on what she'll actually do in office.

And people are right to criticize political parties as elitist type clubs; they most certainly are. Look no further than the scandal of explicit bias at the DNC in 2016 and the unprecedented lengths the party went through to hedge out Sanders on Super Tuesday, who was expected to decisively win by every polling outfit in existence, where literally everyone who still mattered among the centrists dropped out at the last second to consolidate behind Biden (with Biden later winning by less than the combined delegates Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar were expected to gain, which then cemented his core electability argument). To even begin to try to equivocate Bernie, a good and integral man by every account, to a moronic sociopath like Trump, and to frame him as a menace or threat that needed desperately to be kept out of power by those swimming in donations and support from corporate special interests, is the very height of disingenuity and irony and is frankly insulting to Sanders.
 

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Legitimately curious: what would you point to specifically to consider Brown a progressive? And if she is truly a progressive, why are all of these corporate special interests lined up so decisively behind her?
How does she qualify as a progressive? Well, pick an issue. Health Care. Education. Taxes. Criminal Justice Reform. Voting Rights. etc. etc. There is very little policy difference between the two candidates, that I'm aware of. And the differences that may exist are matters of tenor and tone, rather than substance. I would eagerly support either candidate.

How do you define "progressive" and how does either candidate NOT meet that definition?

Why is she immersed in quid pro quo with a major contractor? This is anathema to the progressive identity and cause: https://theintercept.com/2021/04/14/cleveland-cuyahoga-shontel-brown-contracts-nina-turner/
"Immersed"? Come on. How is that any different than the stories about Turner? Both are experienced state political leaders with high name recognition and long track records within Democratic Party circles. And both agree on almost every issue. So the only way to differentiate the is by way of largely semantic arguments.

And that has nothing to do with ideology. I'm interested in understanding how you define "progressive" and how you differentiate it from whatever it is you consider Brown to be.


Second, I think it is absolutely troubling, and telling, that of the two candidates, Brown is swimming in corporate money and PACs which really only materialized after Clinton made her clarion warcry against Nina (and she effectively begged for their support: https://theintercept.com/2021/05/08/nina-turner-shontel-brown-super-pac/ ). Between this and Turner having the preponderance of union/labour endorsements, as well as Shontel's platform being substantially more tepid and the fundamental basis of her campaign being largely vaguery about how Nina is a divisive character and will work against Biden (as 'moderates' like Sinema and Manchin have actually been by far the worst for that).
What "warcry" from Clinton? I know Turner (a big Bernie backer) didn't support Clinton enthusiastically in 2016, but what does Clinton have to do with any of this?

This just sounds (again) like more "Bernie Bro" stuff. And I'm not anti-Bernie at all. In fact, it seems to me that the bigger problem is that Bernie supporters are only committed to supporting Democrats if/when their candidates win. And, as a result, we see them sometimes doing as much damage to the party as good.

There is simply no need to tear down Brown in order to support Turner in this race. Real Democrats would understand that.

Last question, would you support Brown if she gets the Democratic nomination?
 

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How does she qualify as a progressive? Well, pick an issue. Health Care. Education. Taxes. Criminal Justice Reform. Voting Rights. etc. etc. There is very little policy difference between the two candidates, that I'm aware of. And the differences that may exist are matters of tenor and tone, rather than substance. I would eagerly support either candidate.

How do you define "progressive" and how does either candidate NOT meet that definition?

Medicare for All, Housing as a Human Right, College Debt Cancellation and Marijuana Legalization are huge differences alone, just off the top of my head.


"Immersed"? Come on. How is that any different than the stories about Turner? Both are experienced state political leaders with high name recognition and long track records within Democratic Party circles. And both agree on almost every issue. So the only way to differentiate the is by way of largely semantic arguments.

And that has nothing to do with ideology. I'm interested in understanding how you define "progressive" and how you differentiate it from whatever it is you consider Brown to be.
Which stories about Turner?

Turner isn't the one whose campaign finance and resources are buoyed predominantly on PACs and corporate donations.

And yes, it has everything to do with ideology. A core litmus test of progressives, in acknowledgement of the seriously corrosive impact of money in politics on democracy and how it ultimately influences politicos, is eschewing or at the very least consummately minimizing corporate money and PAC support, not opening begging for and embracing it as Shontel did. It's one thing to say you oppose money in politics and entirely another to prove it with the way you campaign. When it comes to this critical issue, I am infinitely more inclined to trust the person whose war chest is predicated about entirely on grassroots donations.

Moreover, if Brown was such a consummate progressive, why are Republican funds such as those from Roger Synenberg, a Trump stalwart, invested in her candidacy?

What "warcry" from Clinton? I know Turner (a big Bernie backer) didn't support Clinton enthusiastically in 2016, but what does Clinton have to do with any of this?

This just sounds (again) like more "Bernie Bro" stuff. And I'm not anti-Bernie at all. In fact, it seems to me that the bigger problem is that Bernie supporters are only committed to supporting Democrats if/when their candidates win. And, as a result, we see them sometimes doing as much damage to the party as good.

There is simply no need to tear down Brown in order to support Turner in this race. Real Democrats would understand that.

Last question, would you support Brown if she gets the Democratic nomination?

You either are being willfully disingenous or you haven't been paying attention.

The establishment endorsements, Super PAC and corporate donor money didn't flood in for Shontel, who was hopelessly outgunned and outfunded until after Clinton gave the signal; the time line on this is clear. This isn't 'Bernie Bro' stuff so much as a factual continuity of events.

Second, no, the people doing real damage to the party, who are paralyzing the party's ability to legislate and killing its mid-term chances as a result, are moderates like Manchin and Sinema who have by and large avoided the scathing condemnation they richly deserve, and the accusations of disunity so eagerly heaped upon progressives. Moreover, Sanders' people overwhelmingly voted for and turned out for Dems in the recent presidential race and primaries so you can take your anti-prog propaganda and shove it frankly.

Third, Shontel and her PAC allies are more than happy to tear down Turner and discredit and diminish her as a Democrat in order to shore up Brown, so turnabout is fair play I'm afraid, and unlike with Turner, the criticisms against Shontel have teeth and purchase.
 
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Don't expect an apology. She still thinks Bernie cost her the election.
The guy who worked harder for her than any opponent has ever helped a nominee and anyone else that election.
 

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How do you define "progressive" and how does either candidate NOT meet that definition?

It would take an hour or two to do a decent amount of collecting specific lists of her history, and frankly, if it's not already clear, it's not worth the time as far as I can tell.
What "warcry" from Clinton? I know Turner (a big Bernie backer) didn't support Clinton enthusiastically in 2016, but what does Clinton have to do with any of this?

Clinton is a big party operative who influences many in the corporate wing of the party, still a majority. Her encouraging big donors has an effect.
This just sounds (again) like more "Bernie Bro" stuff. And I'm not anti-Bernie at all. In fact, it seems to me that the bigger problem is that Bernie supporters are only committed to supporting Democrats if/when their candidates win. And, as a result, we see them sometimes doing as much damage to the party as good.

Bernie bros is a fake propaganda term that discredits you. Attacking Bernie supporters as doing as much harm as good as an absurd false attack. I might as well accuse you of helping trump as much as any MAGA maniac - similarly false.

There is simply no need to tear down Brown in order to support Turner in this race. Real Democrats would understand that.

Ya, Bernie supporters, not 'real' Democrats. Bernie, not a 'real' Democrat.

Garbage.

Last question, would you support Brown if she gets the Democratic nomination?

Of course. Just as we supported Hillary - far more than Hillary supporters supported Obama or would have supported Bernie. Not because of 'party loyalty', but because basically any Democrat is FAR better than any Republican, and party power matters enormously.
 

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Shontel Brown, progressive? Read this article today. Felony investigation for corruption, backed by corrupt big money from the right.

 

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Yes, its a choice between a nutter or "corporate establishment". Boy, you nailed it.

From which perspective is your criticism of progressive policies? You specified mostly economic issues and not cultural ones, so I'm assuming you're not a right-wing cultural fanatic/fascist.

There's only so many angles from which you can attack policies that demonstrably help citizens over corporations and the top 1%.

There's also a libertarian argument, but libertarianism isn't really a 'thing'. It's more like a phase that males go through post-puberty.
 

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This OP is a bit hyperbolic.

These are two high quality candidates. Turner is in the Bernie Sanders wing of the party. Brown from the Biden wing. Both are strong progressives.

Corporate-backed politicians are generally not progressive, since they obey corporate funding and are not focused on the citizens who elect them.

Why do you think the corporate establishment prefers Shontel? Because she has a dollar sign on her. She can be bought. She is a vehicle for the highest bidder.


There is no more of a "bi-partisan" effort to "take down Turner" than there is a bipartisan effort against Brown.

Wasn't Nina Turner like 30-50 points ahead of every other candidate before Hillary Clinton coalesced corporate funding around Shontel?


One could just as easily argue that the Sanders crowd is only slightly more loyal to the Democratic Party than the Trump crowd.

You mean the corporate wing of the Democratic party, which I'll grant you is the majority. However, it's corrupt bribery class of the Democratic establishment that propelled Trump to victory in 2016. Of all people, he was able to claim the title of an uncorrupted/unbought politician and sell it to millions of voters.

This is just a primary battle between 2 really good, qualified liberal Democrats.

There's one candidate which fights for the people and one which fights for corporations, as long as they're paying.

Look, the Bernie Bros need to stop this kind of nonsense.

Shontel and the corporate machine that backs her have attacked Nina Turner RELENTLESSLY with lies and smears.

And I say this as someone who has long viewed Nina Turner as a rising star in the party.

Anyone who looks at Shontel and Nina Turner as equal choices is not my ally.
 

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Medicare for All, Housing as a Human Right, College Debt Cancellation and Marijuana Legalization are huge differences alone, just off the top of my head.
Are you saying that Dems (or those on "the left") who oppose any those polices are not progressives? Who made up that rule?

Besides that, let's take your first issue (Medicare for All). Jim Clyburn is FOR it, and yet he supports Nina Turner's opponent in that primary race. Does that make Clyburn a "progressive" (in your opinion), or something else?

And if "something else", please give me a term/label that you'd use.

Otherwise, I personally support the idea of student debt cancellation and decriminalization of MJ. And while I don't know the position of Turner or Brown on those particular issues, I know that Jim Clyburn supports both, and he's a rock solid liberal.

Which stories about Turner?
No need to get into that. But there are plenty of reports about Turner's funding sources.

The nature of our process dictates that funding comes from a lot of different sources. In the case of these two candidates, however, they both have sufficient public/professional track records to understand that both would be good, solid Democratic representatives for that congressional district. And the fact that Hillary Clinton endorsed Turner's opponent is hardly surprising, given Turner's support for Clinton's opponent in 2016.

Turner isn't the one whose campaign finance and resources are buoyed predominantly on PACs and corporate donations.
So?

And yes, it has everything to do with ideology. A core litmus test of progressives, in acknowledgement of the seriously corrosive impact of money in politics on democracy and how it ultimately influences politicos, is eschewing or at the very least consummately minimizing corporate money and PAC support, not opening begging for and embracing it as Shontel did. It's one thing to say you oppose money in politics and entirely another to prove it with the way you campaign. When it comes to this critical issue, I am infinitely more inclined to trust the person whose war chest is predicated about entirely on grassroots donations.
Ok, fair enough.

You and I have different interpretations of the term "progressive". Although I 100% support radical campaign finance reform (I believe all campaigns should be publicly funded after the primaries), I think "progressive" is much more than simply the "money in politics" issue. And not every progressive agrees on every issue. For example, it's easy to say "Housing is a Human Right"...but how do you create a workable state/federal policy around that ideal within a capitalist economy?

Perhaps you consider yourself to be a socialist (or anti-capitalist)? So I must add that Progressive is NOT a synonym for Socialist, you know.

Like most Americans, I believe, whole-heartedly, that a mixed economy (i.e. Regulated Capitalism) is the best form of economy. The debate among patriotic Americans is with respect to HOW much regulation is appropriate, from issue to issue.


Moreover, if Brown was such a consummate progressive, why are Republican funds such as those from Roger Synenberg, a Trump stalwart, invested in her candidacy?
"Consummate progressive" is a matter of opinion, I'd say.

One can go beyond "Progressive". I get the impression that you might disagree with that.


You either are being willfully disingenous or you haven't been paying attention.
Disingenuous? Really?

Ok, well, I'm not particularly concerned with your assessment of my ingenuousness. So let's just move beyond that.
 

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The establishment endorsements, Super PAC and corporate donor money didn't flood in for Shontel, who was hopelessly outgunned and outfunded until after Clinton gave the signal; the time line on this is clear. This isn't 'Bernie Bro' stuff so much as a factual continuity of events.
So now Clinton gave "the signal", huh? Is that true, or is that your opinion?

That may be true. We all know the Clintons were a different kind of Democrat. I was certainly never in the Clinton camp of the party, myself. But, most of us tolerated them more than enthusiastically supported them. But from what I've seen and read, this is more about political payback for Turner being such a vocal critic of Clinton (and refusing to endorse her as the Democratic nominee against Trump) in 2016.

And, from what I've read, Turner is still outraising Brown.

Second, no, the people doing real damage to the party, who are paralyzing the party's ability to legislate and killing its mid-term chances as a result, are moderates like Manchin and Sinema
This is true, but lacks some contest.

For example, it's also true that a very sizable minority faction (12-15%) of Bernie supporters abandoned the Democratic Party in 2016 and voted for Trump.....which AGAIN raises questions about how EXACTLY you guys define "Progressive". In FACT, there would be no Trump presidency if 216,000 BERNIE BROS hadn't switch parties to vote for Trump in Michigan, Pen and Wisconsin in the 2016 election.

And, if the Bernie wing of the party holds true to form, we will likely see a lot of them NOT VOTING for Democratic candidates who defeated Bernie Bro candidates in primary races for 2022.

So please, spare us all the high-handed "Progressive" talk, please.
who have by and large avoided the scathing condemnation they richly deserve, and the accusations of disunity so eagerly heaped upon progressives.
Really? That's funny, because I've seen plenty of scathing condemnation aimed at them both. And rightly so.

But I won't suggest you are being "disingenuous".

Moreover, Sanders' people overwhelmingly voted for and turned out for Dems in the recent presidential race and primaries so you can take your anti-prog propaganda and shove it frankly.
:ROFLMAO:.....I'm not anti-progressive at all. I'm just questioning if "progressive" is truly what you are. You're not a progressive. You're something else....anti-Captialist.....Socialist.....etc. Who knows. That's fine. But Progressive doesn't mean "as far left on every issue as possible". You don't get to redefine words to suit your needs.

And the FACT is that the last polling I saw noted that 15% of Sanders supporters were planning to vote for Trump after Biden secured the Democratic nomination.

Kinda hard to rationalize that if (as you insist) Sanders people are the standard bearers for "Progressive" ideals, huh?
Third, Shontel and her PAC allies are more than happy to tear down Turner and discredit and diminish her as a Democrat in order to shore up Brown, so turnabout is fair play I'm afraid, and unlike with Turner, the criticisms against Shontel have teeth and purchase.
We'll see. As I said at the very beginning, either would be an excellent Democratic congresswoman, imo. Both are on the same basic page on issues like race/racism, social justice, criminal justice/police reform, education, environment, government's role in society, etc. etc. Neither is a conservative/moderate Dem (i.e. Manchin, Sinema, etc). That's the most important thing.

Turner's refusal to endorse her own party's nominee in the past, is certainly fair game as well. You can't do that and then turn around for party support when it's your turn....and NOT expect it to be an issue.

Both candidates will do fine in Congress.
 

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It would take an hour or two to do a decent amount of collecting specific lists of her history, and frankly, if it's not already clear, it's not worth the time as far as I can tell.
From what I have been able to gather, they are not much different on the issues. This is a classic intra-party contest and the winner is going to be a good, solid Dem caucus member.

Clinton is a big party operative who influences many in the corporate wing of the party, still a majority. Her encouraging big donors has an effect.
No doubt. We all understand that.

I'm just wondering what this "warcry" was all about. Seems to me that this thread is more a case of a Bernie supporter taking it to the extreme.

After all, it's not like both candidates didn't ask for endorsement from all the same people. Turner would have gladly accepted support from Clinton and Clyburn, if offered. The fact that she didn't get it is just politics. I'm sure she'll get plenty of party endorsements before all is said and done. As she should. As I said previously, I consider Turner to be one of the true rising starts on the left. She's brilliant and talented, and tough.

But the Bernie people need to stop whining and threatening to burn down the house every time they don't get their way. I'm with them on most issues, and that's just based upon where we are as a society right now. But where they lose me, completely, is when they go from "We're Democrats too!".....to....."F-those Democrats, I'm not voting for anyone!".....when/if their candidate loses a primary.

I'm for the Democrats, period, because (right now) they are the ONLY viable option to save American democracy. The Bernie Bros don't seem to get that....or care. Real "progressives" wouldn't leave the party and vote for Trump under ANY scenario. And yet, about 15% of Sanders supporters did just that.

Bernie bros is a fake propaganda term that discredits you.
Discredits me? Seriously? Discredits me...with whom? And why would I care? I've got 5000 posts over 4 years on this board. My views are pretty clear.

So that's just nonsense. You don't give me credibility, and you certainly can't take it away. Come on, now.

If you want to ask me questions about my positions or ideology, just ask. I'm not shy and I'm not evasive. No need for that stuff between us, Craig.

That said, "Bernie Bros" is a term that many Sanders supporters (and I know because I've worked and organized with many, including family members) embrace. It's not derogatory; and it's not just "bros" btw. Sanders' support was actually slightly more female than male in 2020. You don't have to like it, or agree with it, but it's neither fake, nor "propaganda".

The point is that Sanders' supporters tend to be less reliable Democratic voters than others on the progressive/left. That's a fact and it's a source of concern with the party.
Attacking Bernie supporters as doing as much harm as good as an absurd false attack.
It does no more harm than when Bernie supporters attack other Dems in the party. All intra-party divisions and squabbles tend to approach that fine line between constructive and destructive disagreement/criticism.

The difference is that some (NOT ALL) Bernie supporters are only supportive of "Bernie" candidates, not the Democratic Party as a whole. And in that way, THEY do more harm than good, at times. And the 2016 presidential race (when 220,000 of them switched and voted for Trump in Mich, Pa, and Wisc)....is the preeminent example of that.

Democrats need to support Democratic nominees, Period. Not conditionally. Not only if your choice wins the primary. These are not the time for 3rd party votes, protest votes and/or votes (or non-votes) of conscience.
 
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