The Baby In The Womb [W:211]

[tosca1]

The desperate struggle for self-preservation. The desperate attempt to survive. No contest here.

The only one whose natural instinct should be to protect had, unnaturally, turned against its own.
The mother would not even sacrifice 9 months of her life that her child may see the light of day.

All pro-choice should watch this. I can't. The descriptions I've read is enough.

 

[tosca1]

Decades back, I remember my dad telling me about this film. He gave a graphic description of what he saw - his pity for the baby. Perhaps it was his parental way of teaching me about the evil of abortion. To see the fetus as a human being.

We have to teach our children empathy and compassion. The future will be quite bleak if the world is run by people with hardened hearts.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

I've seen films of actual abortions and I'm still pro-choice. I don't make decisions based on emotional appeals.

Also, I'm pro-choice and I do have empathy and compassion - for the woman who don't want to have a child. Also, it's kind of impossible to empathize with a fetus since I have no ****ing clue what it's like to be one. I can, however, empathize with a teenager or an adult.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

1.The mother would not even sacrifice 9 months of her life that her child may see the light of day.

This made me change my position on the issue NOT lol

Anyways

1. Humans don't ''see the light of day'' until some years after birth when they actually know of their own existence. I myself actually remember this and it was around 3 years of age and I was hiding in a pillow at my mom's before she died and I was adopted luckily

Humans live in the darkness for a couple of years of life and don't place value on their very own existence until some years of development

And there is no reason for rational moral agents to allow something to suck blood and dump bio toxic waste into them for free for 9 months. We don't give this treatment to mosquitos or leaches when we kill them right when they decide to suck blood out of us.

 

[Dragonfly]

We have to teach our children empathy and compassion.

So where do you stand on birth control, availability of birth control, cost of birth control, and seriously comprehensive and honest sex education classes that are not solely focused on abstinence?

 

[tosca1]

So where do you stand on birth control, availability of birth control, cost of birth control, and seriously comprehensive and honest sex education classes that are not solely focused on abstinence?

From the Christian point of view, of course I'd recommend abstinence. However, I do understand that not everyone is a Christian nor that everyone shares my view. Since birth control devices would prevent pregnancies (and babies being killed), I would prefer that birth control devices be used.

I see no problems with sex education that honestly explains about the human body, how one gets pregnant and usage of birth control devices. I do have a problem though using sex education to indoctrinate children to other sexual practices.

 

[tosca1]

This made me change my position on the issue NOT lol

Anyways

1. Humans don't ''see the light of day'' until some years after birth when they actually know of their own existence. I myself actually remember this and it was around 3 years of age and I was hiding in a pillow at my mom's before she died and I was adopted luckily

Humans live in the darkness for a couple of years of life and don't place value on their very own existence until some years of development

And there is no reason for rational moral agents to allow something to suck blood and dump bio toxic waste into them for free for 9 months. We don't give this treatment to mosquitos or leaches when we kill them right when they decide to suck blood out of us.

"Light of day." It was a figure of speech.

We've already talked about your mention of the term, "rational" in that other topic.

I also gave the characteristics of a psychopath - which shows that there is a resemblance to that kind of "rationalization" and ......lack of emotion/feeling.

Psychopaths - Characteristics of the Psychopathic Personality


And the reason behind abortion? It all boils down to.....Narcissism.

Anyway....your post above no longer makes any sense.

 

[GottaGo]

And the reason behind abortion? It all boils down to.....Narcissism.

If you truly believe that, then you have no clue. None.

 

[tosca1]

If you truly believe that, then you have no clue. None.

Care to expand on that? Or are we supposed to take that as the final word of wisdom.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

1. We've already talked about your mention of the term, "rational" in that other topic.

2. I also gave the characteristics of a psychopath - which shows that there is a resemblance to that kind of "rationalization" and ......lack of emotion/feeling.

Psychopaths - Characteristics of the Psychopathic Personality

3. Anyway....your post above no longer makes any sense.

1. No there are Rational attributes associated with personhood like self-consciousness, autonomy, loving, free will, relating with the world around one, abstract thinking, intelligence, able to comprehend a future life for yourself etc.) and sentience (the ability to feel pain or pleasure). None of these rational attributes are present in the unborn when killed the vast majority of the time


2. Just because I agree somewhat with killing humans before they have the mental capabilities to support these rational attributes does not mean I am a psychopath in anyway. Almost everybody accepts that some humans can be killed especially if they been born with anercepholy or Harlequin-type ichthyosis of something else as severe


3. I am not surprise nothing makes sense to you

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Care to expand on that? Or are we supposed to take that as the final word of wisdom.

Take it as the final word of wisdom

 

[Dragonfly]

And the reason behind abortion? It all boils down to.....Narcissism.

Are you really that naive?

Here's something for you to think about.

In some cases, I'd bet empathy and compassion are at times reason.

 

[tosca1]

Are you really that naive?

Here's something for you to think about.

In some cases, I'd bet empathy and compassion are at times reason.

Just so to be clear.....empathy and compassion for whom?

 

[JayDubya]

Just so to be clear.....empathy and compassion for whom?

Why of course, he's talking about the victim. It's "mercy killing" because as you must know, we humans are psychic and can predict the future... so we know for a fact when a kid is going to have a bad life and can't persevere and find personal fulfillment.

 

[GottaGo]

Care to expand on that? Or are we supposed to take that as the final word of wisdom.

Narcissism doesn't come into play for those who have been raped, abused, their marriage going south, or too young to be able to raise a child.

I would welcome you to Women in Crisis Center where women from all walks of life come to counsel, not about abortion, but how desperately to sort out their lives, get away from abusers, clean themselves up from addictions, any serious problem you could imagine. And yes, some do come pregnant.

The women that seeking the counsel of an objective third party (and we CANNOT go pro or anti abortion) that clears the path to making clear headed decisions is far from narcissism. Those that are pregnant, some have kept, some have not. But each one dragged through with great thought and painful emotions in making their choices.

You have no clue.

 

[Fletch]

This made me change my position on the issue NOT lol

Anyways

1. Humans don't ''see the light of day'' until some years after birth when they actually know of their own existence. I myself actually remember this and it was around 3 years of age and I was hiding in a pillow at my mom's before she died and I was adopted luckily

Humans live in the darkness for a couple of years of life and don't place value on their very own existence until some years of development

And there is no reason for rational moral agents to allow something to suck blood and dump bio toxic waste into them for free for 9 months. We don't give this treatment to mosquitos or leaches when we kill them right when they decide to suck blood out of us.

That would be because most "rational moral agents" recognize that mosquitos and leaches are not human.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The desperate struggle for self-preservation. The desperate attempt to survive. No contest here.

The only one whose natural instinct should be to protect had, unnaturally, turned against its own.
The mother would not even sacrifice 9 months of her life that her child may see the light of day.

All pro-choice should watch this. I can't. The descriptions I've read is enough.

If those who support the killing of the unborn had consciences, then they could not take the position that they do. It is futile to try to appeal to a conscience that isn't there.

 

[tosca1]

Narcissism doesn't come into play for those who have been raped, abused, their marriage going south, or too young to be able to raise a child.

So why is the child the one being persecuted to the point of being snuffed?

No one is trying to force anyone to raise the child! Don't kill him. Give him up for adoption!

I would welcome you to Women in Crisis Center where women from all walks of life come to counsel, not about abortion, but how desperately to sort out their lives, get away from abusers, clean themselves up from addictions, any serious problem you could imagine. And yes, some do come pregnant.

The women that seeking the counsel of an objective third party (and we CANNOT go pro or anti abortion) that clears the path to making clear headed decisions is far from narcissism. Those that are pregnant, some have kept, some have not. But each one dragged through with great thought and painful emotions in making their choices. You have no clue.

I do hope the day comes when you do actually try to talk someone out of killing an innocent human being.

I do hope the day comes when you guys do really EMPOWER women by helping them recognize the inner strength they have - a lot of decent, productive human beings were raised by single mothers at a time when single motherhood carried a nasty stigma!

Sometimes, you learn to swim when you're unexpectedly thrown in the water!

I've learned about the steely strength an elderly woman possessed through the eulogy at her funeral. She was in her 80's when she died. She was abandoned by her husband and raised her son all by herself. To make ends meet, she found employment and took in boarders.

Her son was one of the first "latchkey" kids....coming home earlier than his mom, doing his homework and helping mom by prepping supper, thus all mom had to do was cook it when she got home. I can't exactly remember the details but apparently there was also the fear that her son would be taken away from her.

Her son gave the eulogy - his own grown-up children and grandchildren all stood beside him. He turned out to become a Principal in an elementary school - two of his three children became educators, and one is an environmentalist. The values he learned from his mother - he'd passed on to his own children.

 

[GottaGo]

So why is the child the one being persecuted to the point of being snuffed?

By that statement alone shows you truly don't comprehend the pain that some women go through to make their choices. Persecuted? The overblown emotion isn't serving you well.

No one is trying to force anyone to raise the child! Don't kill him. Give him up for adoption!

So the woman who is being abused by her husband or SO, not means to support herself, should go through 9 months of additional abuse, to not necessarily be able to give the child up for adoption, which requires the consent of BOTH parents. What then?

I do hope the day comes when you do try to talk someone out of killing an innocent human being.
I do hope the day comes when you guys do really EMPOWER women by helping them recognize the inner strength they have - a lot of decent, productive human beings were raised by single mothers at a time when single motherhood carried a nasty stigma!

What part of CANNOT wasn't clear?
Of course decent people have been raised by single mothers. Some not so decent ones also.

Many do find that strength, and fight their way through it. Some don't. But who are you, in your judgmental manner to say who can or can't? Who are you to say Carry it for nine months and give it up for adoption! when you know nothing of their situation, their health physical and mental? No sympathy, no empathy, just judgment.....

Sometimes, you learn to swim when you're unexpectedly thrown in the water!

And you are so easily willing to sacrifice those who can't..... the life of the unborn is more precious than those of the already born?

I've learned about the steely strength an elderly woman possessed through the eulogy at her funeral. She was in her 80's when she died.
She was abandoned by her husband and raised her son all by herself. To make ends meet, she found employment and took in boarders.
Her son was one of the first "latchkey" kids....coming home earlier than his mom, doing his homework and helping mom by prepping supper, thus all mom had to do was cook it when she got home.
I can't exactly remember the details but apparently there was the fear that her son would be taken from her. Her son gave the eulogy - his own grown-up children and grandchildren beside him. He turned out to become a Principal in a school - two of his three children became educators, and one is an environmentalist. The values he learned from his mother - he'd passed on to his own children.

While I can appreciate that someone did what they did to make it through, that is one in hundreds of thousands who may not.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

That would be because most "rational moral agents" recognize that mosquitos and leaches are not human.

You obviously don't know what I mean by rational moral agents. There are rational attributes associated with personhood and none of the unborn have them thus not rational moral agents. I already listed the attributes somewhere around here.

And yes obviously mosquitos and leaches are not human BUT comparing the actions of the unborn to actions of these entities is ok. If we kill the mosquitos and leaches because of the actions, then the unborn can be killed for the same reasons because they do the same exact thing

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

1. So why is the child the one being persecuted to the point of being snuffed?

2. No one is trying to force anyone to raise the child! Don't kill him. Give him up for adoption!.

1. Because it is unwanted and has none of the rational attributes associated with personhood I listed to you earlier because it lacks the necessary mental capabilities to support them

2. Yes kill him. They're like roaches easy to make and replace. Gotta love the law of supply and demand

 

[Fletch]

You obviously don't know what I mean by rational moral agents. There are rational attributes associated with personhood and none of the unborn have them thus not rational moral agents. I already listed the attributes somewhere around here.

And yes obviously mosquitos and leaches are not human BUT comparing the actions of the unborn to actions of these entities is ok. If we kill the mosquitos and leaches because of the actions, then the unborn can be killed for the same reasons because they do the same exact thing

I see. So any human that doesn't fit your definition of a "rational moral agent" can be exterminated. Perhaps it is you who doesn't fit the definition.

 

[Fletch]

2. Yes kill him. They're like roaches easy to make and replace. Gotta love the law of supply and demand

There is just no substitute for liberal compassion.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I see. So any human that doesn't fit your definition of a "rational moral agent" can be exterminated. Perhaps it is you who doesn't fit the definition.

It's not at all difficult to see how this use of the term “rational moral agent” could be expanded and abused to justify the killing of almost any group of humanity, based on disability, allegations of mental illness (as a cover for political disagreement), and so on.

 

[Fletch]

It's not at all difficult to see how this use of the term “rational moral agent” could be expanded and abused to justify the killing of almost any group of humanity, based on disability, allegations of mental illness (as a cover for political disagreement), and so on.

Exactly. A 40 year old man left brain dead from an automobile accident wouldn't qualify as a "rational moral agent." Does that mean we are free to abuse his body? Execute him? Conduct experiments on him? And just how does a newborn qualify as a "rational moral agent?" I guess we are free to wipe out children all the way up to the age of 9 or 10 then.

It is the position of the left here that lacks both rationality and morality.