The "Ask The Atheist/Agnostic/Non-Believer" Thread

[Josie]

Another question for atheists who ridicule religious people for their beliefs ---- why? What's it to you if someone believes in God or any other supernatural being or event? Why does it bother you to the point where you feel the need to mock and ridicule them?

 

[devildavid]

Another question for atheists who ridicule religious people for their beliefs ---- why? What's it to you if someone believes in God or any other supernatural being or event? Why does it bother you to the point where you feel the need to mock and ridicule them?

I don't ridicule religious people for their beliefs, but I do ridicule the beliefs. Sometimes believers don't seem to get the difference. And I don't really see ridicule of people because of their beliefs much in this forum. I think personal ridicule is against forum rules, except in the basement.

 

[Josie]

I don't ridicule religious people for their beliefs, but I do ridicule the beliefs. Sometimes believers don't seem to get the difference. And I don't really see ridicule of people because of their beliefs much in this forum. I think personal ridicule is against forum rules, except in the basement.

Why do you ridicule their beliefs? How is it harming you if someone believes in God?

 

[Dragonfly]

Another question for atheists who ridicule religious people for their beliefs ---- why? What's it to you if someone believes in God or any other supernatural being or event? Why does it bother you to the point where you feel the need to mock and ridicule them?

Could be a number of things.

1000's of years of persecution, imprisonment, torture and death for those that don't believe the right stuff.
Could be the unending condemnation and threats from believers that persists even today.
Could be the relatively new infusion of evangelical religion into politics.
Things like the Westboro Baptists and FLDS might set it off.
Jehovah's Witness and Scientology might get it going.
Doomsday Cults like Lori Vallow and her weird off-shoot of mornomism.
Could be people on Facebook posting that we need religion back in our public schools.
Could be just for the entertainment of it all.

Often times it's because a religious person will spout off about something that's just insane.
Sometimes it's because laws will be crafted and/or rights will be threatened based on religious beliefs. (SSM, Gay rights, & Abortion come to mind)
Sometimes it's shining a bright light on hypocrisy at it's finest.
Could be something in the news triggers it. Like pedophile priests and a ginormous corporate style cover-up around it.

Again - do you ask the same questions as to why people ridicule people for their political beliefs? This whole forum has WAY more of that going on.

Also - don't for a minute assume that what you see here at DP, specifically in this section of DP, carries over directly into real life behavior. I have blood relatives that don't know I'm an atheist. My in-laws of 30 years don't know I'm an atheist.

Religion effects us all, regardless of whether we're religious or not. It's everywhere.
So it's a natural topic for debate.
Especially since it's basically forbidden in many places for obvious "keep the peace" reasons.

 

[devildavid]

Why do you ridicule their beliefs? How is it harming you if someone believes in God?

I ridicule the beliefs because they are ridiculous. I ridicule all thinking that is ridiculous, religious or otherwise.

Ridiculous thinking has potential for harm, even though it may not harm me directly.

 

[Josie]

I ridicule the beliefs because they are ridiculous. I ridicule all thinking that is ridiculous, religious or otherwise.

Ridiculous thinking has potential for harm, even though it may not harm me directly.

What's harmful about believing in God?

 

[weaver2]

Another question for atheists who ridicule religious people for their beliefs ---- why? What's it to you if someone believes in God or any other supernatural being or event? Why does it bother you to the point where you feel the need to mock and ridicule them?

Atheists that I know of usually mind their own business and don't worry much about religion. They do not ridicule religious people unless they are attacked first.

We have just gone through 476 post of a thread in which believers were invited to ask atheists any question they wanted. There were almost no questions. There were demands to prove a negative or demands that the beliefs of the religious be recognized as the truth. Many were told their answers were incorrect and they were mocked.

 

[Josie]

Atheists that I know of usually mind their own business and don't worry much about religion. They do not ridicule religious people unless they are attacked first.

We have just gone through 476 post of a thread in which believers were invited to ask atheists any question they wanted. There were almost no questions. There were demands to prove a negative or demands that the beliefs of the religious be recognized as the truth. Many were told their answers were incorrect and they were mocked.

I'm not talking about atheists who don't ridicule people. As my opening sentence said "Another question for atheists who ridicule people for their beliefs.."

 

[weaver2]

What's harmful about believing in God?

Absolutely nothing, unless believers want their religion recognized as something everybody has to honor and follow. Then it is harmful.

 

[weaver2]

I'm not talking about atheists who don't ridicule people. As my opening sentence said "Another question for atheists who ridicule people for their beliefs.."

And I'm saying that atheists don't do that unless they are first attacked.

 

[Josie]

And I'm saying that atheists don't do that unless they are first attacked.

Never? Not even one atheist ever ridicules first? C'mon.

 

[weaver2]

Never? Not even one atheist ever ridicules first? C'mon.

Of course not never.

 

[Josie]

Of course not never.

Well, that's what you said. You said atheists don't do that.

 

[Peter King]

Another question for atheists who ridicule religious people for their beliefs ---- why? What's it to you if someone believes in God or any other supernatural being or event? Why does it bother you to the point where you feel the need to mock and ridicule them?

I can give an opinion here, because some atheists are sometimes ticked off by the religious crowd. Most atheists do not ridicule religious people but for some reason a lot of religious people have a little habit called false superiority and "being in the know and trying to make everybody believe the same".

I try not to ridicule people's belief except when they say things that are beyond belief and expect us to agree to it being factual where there is no evidence for this. Like people saying we should take the bible literally and no willing to entertain any evidence to the contrary. That can lead to somewhat ridiculing.

But mostly I like to leave religious people in their own value if they do the same to me. I cannot count anymore the disapproving looks from christians if you tell them you are an atheist, and the worst is the ones who then tell you to your face "I am going to pray for divine intervention so that you can find your way to the Lord Jesus Christ and save yourself from hell". Or prayers like that. If you disapprove of me being an atheist, fine, if you feel compelled to pray for me, fine too, just don't say it to my face, it is very impolite and I would not do that to a christian so why the hell do they think they have the right to do that to me?

That is what irks me in some christians.

But the worst are hypocritical christians, I do not often find them here but with some of them I have had numerous discussions.

 

[devildavid]

What's harmful about believing in God?

It depends on how it impacts behavior; same with any other beliefs.

 

[devildavid]

Is it important for you to be "right" about the non-existence of the Christian God? If so, please explain why. If not, then please explain why you spend what seems to be alot of time arguing about it.

It is not important, but to be an atheist means you lack belief in gods in general. The christian god is one of these human created gods. We discuss it because many of us grew up in religious families and in a world where religions are unavoidable. So we cannot help but be interested in this aspect of human life.

 

[Josie]

It depends on how it impacts behavior; same with any other beliefs.

Give me an example.

 

[tosca1]

Correct. I have yet to seen evidence God exists.

....you may never see one.....if you keep ignoring what are being given.
But that doesn't mean there are no evidence(s) just because you ignore them.

I was under the impression "proof" and "evidence" are synonyms, and have been using them as such.

There's a slight difference:


Evidence refers to information or facts that help us to establish the truth or existence of something.

Proof is the sum of evidence which helps to prove something.

The main difference between evidence and proof is that proof is more concrete and conclusive than evidence.

Difference Between Evidence and Proof | Definition, Meaning, Usage

What is the difference between Evidence and Proof? Evidence is something which shows that something else exists or is true while proof is the evidence or...

pediaa.com

Think of a criminal investigation. The prosecution has several evidences (circumstantial) - but no smoking gun (direct evidence).
Those circumstantial evidences may end up proving his guilt even though there isn't any direct proof (smoking gun).

Most of the world believes in some sort of God. I don't think all of these people are lying, I think they genuinely experience what they say they do. I just don't think that experience is actually a God, but instead has some sort of scientific explanation. Something created by the brain, perhaps.

That is your opinion.
And, it's not reliable or anywhere credible as the person(s) who have actual experiences with God.

Furthermore - your opinion is more likely to be biased....you may be like that other poster who even concluded that science will never, ever, discover or be able to analyze the supernatural!


Like I said: atheism is a close-minded ideology. You can't allow yourself to get out of your box to entertain thoughts of possibility -
otherwise, you're an agnostic!



If two people calls out to you, yelling "there's an elephant in your garage!"
Meh, maybe they're pranksters.....so you'd continue watching your ballgame.

Lol - if you hear a chorus of people - perhaps your whole neighborhood, yelling that there's an elephant in your garage -
wouldn't you just at least go and check it out?

Millions of people say they had an experience with God (I'm one of them) - surely we know what we're on about!
Especially when there were tangible things that came with those said experience!

I have a hard time believing these experiences have something to do with a God because they contradict each other.

Some say God is a man, others say a woman.
Some say God is selfish and lustful, others say he is kind and pure.
Some say he has one son, others say he has too many children to count.
Some say there is one god, others say there are many.

I don't know what you're saying here.

Anyway, personal Gods isn't what my question is all about. It's a question about your own belief as an atheist.

Surely, you're not giving opinions by different sorts of people as your basis for your belief?

How do you know their reputation? Lol - you believe in those tabloid headlines?
"The Devil Came To Me Wearing Prada!"
"My Neighbor is the Reincarnation of Hitler!"

If all of these people had a personal experience with God or gods, and through that personal experience they learned the information they believe, can all of them be right? No. And if some are wrong, could they all be wrong? Possibly.

It depends on the person. You have to qualify them.

Like - why would a reputable world-famous scientist like James Tour - an atheist who got converted to Christianity - make up stories
that could hurt his reputation?
Or, Anthony Flew - who used to debate against Theists - ended up becoming a deist!

Why would an acquaintance excitedly come up to me at the parking lot of a grocery store, and excitedly told me his story and that he's now a Christian. Lol - I didn't even know what his belief was nor did I ever asked him about them - and yet, there he was spilling his guts (because he was so happy), and told me that his mom has been forever trying to get him to believe in God.
I don't think I ever told him about my belief ether!
What's in it for him to be telling me all those things?
He was just so excited, I suppose that he couldn't contain himself from sharing his experience!




continuation

 

[tosca1]

So when my cousin comes to me and tells me she had a personal experience with God in a dream, I believe it was very real for her. I believe it had an impact on her, and she is being truthful when she tells me this. But I cannot believe in the god she's talking about.

See, I think I get what ASHES is saying. Your analogy is flawed because it implies that all believers are seeing the same thing, when they aren't. So maybe they all see this intangible thing, but they can't agree on the properties of it.

One says the thing is tall, someone else says it's short. One says it's blue, another says it's green. A man, woman, dog, cat... If I keep getting these mixed messages, I would be unlikely to think that this thing is real, and instead that there is something else at play. Is there a gas leak? Is it some trick of the light?

If by "not exactly" you mean wildly different, contradictory properties then it absolutely calls the validity of their claims into question.

Well - that's you.

You're not alone.
Even with one of the apostles of Christ - Thomas - inspite of having been with Christ all those time witnessing Him raising the dead - he couldn't believe what the others were saying that Christ had risen from the dead.....until Christ showed up and proved it was Him.

We have our own paths to get on to finding God.
Some can take the short-cut, others the long-winding way.
And others, never.

 

[Unbeknownst]

That is your opinion.
And, it's not reliable or anywhere credible as the person(s) who have actual experiences with God.

Anecdotal evidence is famously unreliable.

Lol - if you hear a chorus of people - perhaps your whole neighborhood, yelling that there's an elephant in your garage -
wouldn't you just at least go and check it out?

Millions of people say they had an experience with God (I'm one of them) - surely we know what we're on about!

See, this is the problem. You keep representing theists as a untied front all saying they see the same thing. They aren't, though. That's what I meant when I said

"Some say God is a man, others say a woman.
Some say God is selfish and lustful, others say he is kind and pure.
Some say he has one son, others say he has too many children to count.
Some say there is one god, others say there are many."

Many, many people say they see and experience a god/gods, but their accounts contradict each other. It's like getting eyewitness testimony and every witness says they saw a different thing!

Not only that, but even consistent memories can be dead wrong. For example, if you asked me yesterday if the Ford logo had a curl on the F, I'd say definitely not. In fact, I'd be so confident there was no curl I'd bet you good money on it. Tons of people also agree with me, and could say with absolute certainty there is no curl on the Ford F.

In reality, the Ford logo DOES have a curl on the F. The Ford logo is an example of The Mandela Effect, a collective misremembering of something. The phenomena is so common it has its own name. You can find quizzes online of examples of false memories huge amounts of people share.

So, to conclude, anecdotal evidence of a god or gods is unreliable because the accounts are contradictory, and even if they weren't contradictory it doesn't mean they're right, as people collectively misremember things all the time.

It depends on the person. You have to qualify them.

Like - why would a reputable world-famous scientist like James Tour - an atheist who got converted to Christianity - make up stories
that could hurt his reputation?
Or, Anthony Flew - who used to debate against Theists - ended up becoming a deist!

Why would an acquaintance excitedly come up to me at the parking lot of a grocery store, and excitedly told me his story and that he's now a Christian. Lol - I didn't even know what his belief was nor did I ever asked him about them - and yet, there he was spilling his guts (because he was so happy), and told me that his mom has been forever trying to get him to believe in God.
I don't think I ever told him about my belief ether!
What's in it for him to be telling me all those things?

I'm not saying they're lying. It was probably real to them. But if they say they personally experienced God, I'm more inclined to think it's their brain playing tricks on them than an actual encounter with a deity.

 

[Dragonfly]

Many, many people say they see and experience a god/gods

Two things.

1) Most theists don’t have any kind of direct contact/confrontation/incident or episode with some kind of entity. Most simply believe because they were taught to during their formative years. Most never truly question the faith they were born into.

2) I highly doubt the “truth” regarding any and all things supernatural is determined by a popularity contest.

 

[tosca1]

Anecdotal evidence is famously unreliable.

Depends on who's giving it.
Like I said - you have to qualify them.

See, this is the problem. You keep representing theists as a untied front all saying they see the same thing. They aren't, though. That's what I meant when I said

"Some say God is a man, others say a woman.

Can you cite me a non-Abrahamic experience.


God is Spirit - therefore, he has no gender.

What makes you think God can't appear to someone as a woman? After all, He appeared to Moses as a burning bush, right?

Some say God is selfish and lustful, others say he is kind and pure.

You should study the doctrine that they are referring to, and judge for yourself.
For all you know, they were tuning in to fake news.

Some say he has one son, others say he has too many children to count.
Some say there is one god, others say there are many."

So Christians differ in some parts of the doctrine.
But, does that negate their belief? NO!

Hahahaha - really - you're citing those when they don't mean the negation of the existence of God or gods - yet here you are, all over the map trying to find something to somehow "rationalize" atheistic belief - almost admitting that you adhere to an imaginary belief!

 

[Unbeknownst]

So Christians differ in some parts of the doctrine.
But, does that negate their belief? NO!

I'm not talking about Christians in particular. I'm talking about claims theists make. And theists who "experience" God/gods claim very different things about God/gods.

The argument "a lot of people believe X so it's true" is a fallacy. It is the argument you have been making. You've said that because many theists "experience" a god, it is evidence for the existence of god.

I am saying that if these experiences are actually attributed to an encounter with god, they should all be consistent. They are not. So I think it is more likely these experiences are caused by hallucinations, dreams, misremembrance, or other tricks of the mind. Mass misremembrances happen all the time. It's called The Mandela Effect.

Depends on who's giving it.
Like I said - you have to qualify them.

No. Even an honest, intelligent, upstanding person can fall victim to a hallucination or misremembrance. Mistakes happen, our brains are imperfect. Remember The Mandela Effect?

here you are, all over the map trying to find something to somehow "rationalize" atheistic belief - almost admitting that you adhere to an imaginary belief!

Atheism is not a belief, it is a lack of belief. Similarly, not collecting stamps is not a hobby, it is a lack of a hobby.

 

[Questerr]

What's harmful about believing in God?

Very few religions solely limit themselves to “belief in God”. They have a lot more expansive beliefs than that and those beliefs are widely ridiculous.

 

[Josie]

Very few religions solely limit themselves to “belief in God”. They have a lot more expansive beliefs than that and those beliefs are widely ridiculous.

I'm aware.