The American Way

[TimmyBoy]

Abraham's beard!!! What the Hell are you smoking? What terrorist attacks are you talking about?

Sure, I can talk about American state terror. That's not too difficult. A favorite ally of the United States is Indonesia. Indoonesia is led by a man named Suharto. He took power in a US supported coup in 1965. With US assistance, he then turned and slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people, mostly landless peasants. The Clinton Adminstration called him "our kind of guy" as he continued to compile a horrible record of slaughter and torture. The US also supported Saddam while he gassed the Kurds. Also in the 1980s, the US fought a major war in Central America, leaving some 200,000 tortured and mutilated corpses, millions of orphans and refugees and four countries devestated. A prime target of the US attack was the Catholic Church, which had committed the grievous sin of adopting "the prefentrial option for the poor." The International Court also ruled against the US as well, but I guess when you are the most powerful nation, might makes right.

 

[TimmyBoy]

That my friend, is the "American Way." It is one of many reasons that the US was attacked on September 11.

 

[TimmyBoy]

We can talk about East Timor if you like as well.

 

[TimmyBoy]

The main practictioners of terror are countries like the US, who use violence for political motives and economic reasons.

 

[TurtleDude]

Abraham's beard!!! What the Hell are you smoking? What terrorist attacks are you talking about?

Don't try to understand. Timmy's hatred of America and self-loathing are beyond comprehension

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I don't think the people in the World Trade Center deserved what they got, it's just that America as a nation deserved what it got. We had done the same thing to other countries many times before it was done to us on September 11.

When did we ever perform a terrorist act out of the blue on a nation for no real reason, that killed thousands in a blink of an eye. Sorry but America to the best of my knowledge has never done this to any country anytime. Not lots of times to more then one company. Your as flawed as your logic.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

The main practictioners of terror are countries like the US, who use violence for political motives and economic reasons.

Since this awful country continues to be awful... UM ....is there anyway that you might consider.... umm maybe leaving? You can always go back to bosnia

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

When did we ever perform a terrorist act out of the blue on a nation for no real reason, that killed thousands in a blink of an eye.

You sound very uninformed whe you say that we were attacked for no reason.

Sorry but America to the best of my knowledge has never done this to any country anytime. Not lots of times to more then one company. Your as flawed as your logic.

Terrorism is the use of fear as a means of coercion. Do you really think America has never participated in terrorism?

 

[Calm2Chaos]

You sound very uninformed whe you say that we were attacked for no reason.



Terrorism is the use of fear as a means of coercion. Do you really think America has never participated in terrorism?

I understand your attempt to make excuses for him and his fuked up hatred of this country. But you sound very uniformed or maybe just unwilling to read the post that I responded to. In said post he clearly said "We had done the same thing to other countries many times". PLEASE for the love of god show me one time that we hijacked a plane of innocent civilians and flew it in to a couple building killing thousands more innocent civilians. Your desire to brand my country as a terrorist nation is fine. stupid in my opinion but fine. I hate fukin with these other countries. And the fact is if I could get every US soldier and dollar out of them I would. That way when they imploded due to there complete onus on religious oppression, desire to kill each other, living in squaller, and complete lack of any real technology for sustaining or improving life. I could sit back and warm by the fire. Live and let live and peace on earth are all great dreams. But they are just that, dreams. Non violence works as long as the people your being non violent have a problem with killing you and your people in a wholesale manner. IMO it doesn't work when the person your being non violent against enjoys killing you, your children and your friends. And that by doing so gets them into heaven with the other fukin animals that enjoy there work like this. You make a meek little target thats standing still. Your fighting animals and when you do you get dirty. No the country is not perfect. But what you call us being a terrorist, many people call survival. Unless you have proof that the US is trying to wipe out every muslim on the planet, then your looking at polar opposites in my opinion

 

[Donkey1499]

Don't try to understand. Timmy's hatred of America and self-loathing are beyond comprehension

I knew that. I just can't understand why someone has to be so mean about a country that they're living in. It boggles the mind.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

Dude, that's not true. He's wrong, and it sickens me that he thinks what he thinks, but I quite certain that he doesn't hate America.

Doesn't sound like he's to fond of it. Sounds a lot like canuk, it's fun as long as you can constantly throw rocks at it.

 

[Donkey1499]

You sound very uninformed whe you say that we were attacked for no reason.



Terrorism is the use of fear as a means of coercion. Do you really think America has never participated in terrorism?

Those God Damn Americans! How dare they kill all those injuns and take their land away. White ppl suck! They are so damn evil. Run! Hide the children!! The white man is here!!!!!!

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I dunno, I really don't have a grasp on where he's coming from at all. His views all seem so out there, but he seems to think them to be perfectly normal and mainstream, and that's what confuses me.
But we talked about faith when talking about "The Excorsism of Emily Rose", and I got the impression that he's a good guy, and so I doubt that he hates America.

I never got a chance to see that.. was it a good movie?

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

I understand your attempt to make excuses for him and his fuked up hatred of this country. But you sound very uniformed or maybe just unwilling to read the post that I responded to. In said post he clearly said "We had done the same thing to other countries many times". PLEASE for the love of god show me one time that we hijacked a plane of innocent civilians and flew it in to a couple building killing thousands more innocent civilians.

I don't think he meant fly 747s into buildings, I think he meant to use terrorism as a weapon. I could be wrong, I suppose, and if I am I apologize.

Your desire to brand my country as a terrorist nation is fine. stupid in my opinion but fine.

It is not my desire to do anything of the sort.

I hate fukin with these other countries.

You seem to hate alot of things.

And the fact is if I could get every US soldier and dollar out of them I would. That way when they imploded due to there complete onus on religious oppression, desire to kill each other, living in squaller, and complete lack of any real technology for sustaining or improving life. I could sit back and warm by the fire.

Do you see no ethical problems in your feelings of indifference and dare I say, hatred toward these people?

Live and let live and peace on earth are all great dreams. But they are just that, dreams. Non violence works as long as the people your being non violent have a problem with killing you and your people in a wholesale manner. IMO it doesn't work when the person your being non violent against enjoys killing you, your children and your friends.

Nonviolence when ever it is properly applied. General Dyer and his men killed some 300+ people who were all nonviolently protesting in Amristar. Many of them women, many of them children. It didn't matter to General Dyer. Do you know how many people were lynched before and during the civil rights movement? Don't think that Gandhi and King never had dealt with monsters.

Even so, I recognize that this threat is even more heinous than renegade British Generals, or the KKK. All we have to do is do the right thing. Killing is never the right thing.

You may think that prepetual peace is merely a dream fabricated by irrational idealists that look at the world as though it is getting better you when you believe it is only getting worse, but I tell you the world is what ever it's inhabitants choose for it to be. The world is whatever you choose for it to be. So choose, and choose to do the right thing.

No the country is not perfect. But what you call us being a terrorist, many people call survival.

Survival? Our survival is not at stake here. There is no way in hell that these people will ever topple America.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

I don't think he meant fly 747s into buildings, I think he meant to use terrorism as a weapon. I could be wrong, I suppose, and if I am I apologize.

Either way your comparison of my country to these throat cutter and kid killers I find repulsive to be honest. We do some wrong things but to place us on the same stand as people kowingly targeting children and woman and inncoent civillians in mass numbers is repugnant

It is not my desire to do anything of the sort.

Sounds liek that with the comparisonto the US and terrorist and terorrism. But I guess we just have different defintons and or views on exactly what that is.

You seem to hate alot of things.

Terrorist, Lima Beans, Liver, and Micheal Bolton. I think thats about it.

And the fact is if I could get every US soldier and dollar out of them I would. That way when they imploded due to there complete onus on religious oppression, desire to kill each other, living in squaller, and complete lack of any real technology for sustaining or improving life. I could sit back and warm by the fire.

Do you see no ethical problems in your feelings of indifference and dare I say, hatred toward these people?

I see my soldiers dying at the hands of these animals. And the truth is I don't want to trade one of my soldiers for all of them. They want there country and religion back. Guess it time to go into the streets and get bloody with the terrorist and purge these animals from your midst. I want no part of it, I can't tell who's who until it's to late. And my soldiers are worth more to me then these animals and there prey unwilling to fight for a place higher on the food chain. If these people are fine with living like this, with these murderers that let them. Wall them in so they don't infect the rest of the world with the apathy and oppression.

Nonviolence when ever it is properly applied. General Dyer and his men killed some 300+ people who were all nonviolently protesting in Amristar. Many of them women, many of them children. It didn't matter to General Dyer. Do you know how many people were lynched before and during the civil rights movement? Don't think that Gandhi and King never had dealt with monsters.

Show me in the last 100 years where non violence has worked against an opponent that wanted you dead at any cost and didn't care who knew or said anything about. And had no problem with killing as many of you as humanly possible

Even so, I recognize that this threat is even more heinous than renegade British Generals, or the KKK. All we have to do is do the right thing. Killing is never the right thing.

Unfortunately sometimes it's the only thing

You may think that prepetual peace is merely a dream fabricated by irrational idealists that look at the world as though it is getting better you when you believe it is only getting worse, but I tell you the world is what ever it's inhabitants choose for it to be. The world is whatever you choose for it to be. So choose, and choose to do the right thing.



Survival? Our survival is not at stake here. There is no way in hell that these people will ever topple America.

The survival of 1000's upon 1000's has already been decided by these people. They cost to much, and I don't think there worth paying for when all they want is to kill us.

 

[Calm2Chaos]

you'd like it, I noticed somewhat of a right wing bias to it.
But it was also really frickin cool, cause it mixed a religious film with a horror film with a courtroom drama, if you can imagine that, it was pretty frickin dope!

I'll have to get it when it comes out on DVD ..

 

[TimmyBoy]

My views are out their in the eyes of most Americans, mainly because I have had experiences that are out their as well. Even though I haven't seen much combat in Bosnia, it was rather creepy to discover the US government accomodating evil rather than punishing it and to discover that what is taught about Bosnia in the US is completely and totally wrong. I discussed the thought police. The thought police has alot of Americans controlled and not being able to see the truth for what it really is. Going to Bosnia was like entering a different universe. Americans live in one universe with a different set of realities than those people in other countries. I have always felt we should have went into Bosnia much sooner, but politics got in the way of alot of things, which costed countless lives. People do not wake up one morning and decide to launch terrorist attacks against the US for no reason. Foreigners also view American society quite differently than we view ourselves. I would also like to say that Americans of different classes and races view each other quite differently and don't understand much about each other. I like to talk smack about the rich because I came from a poor background. It is interesting to hear views from rich people about poor people and how they are scewed and inaccurate at times. Yet, the same could probably be said about the views of poor people on rich people. I do love this country, but I also think that the overwhelming burden of citizenship responsibilities goes to the poor and the rich sham out of their responsibilities, simply because they have more money. I also think that patriotism to a large degree is a sham. But I also believe that certain things are worth fighting for, like freedom. I don't believe in loyalty to a state. Loyalty to a state was not what this country was founded on. Revolution and freedom is what this country was founded on.

 

[TimmyBoy]

I dunno, I really don't have a grasp on where he's coming from at all. His views all seem so out there, but he seems to think them to be perfectly normal and mainstream, and that's what confuses me.
But we talked about faith when talking about "The Excorsism of Emily Rose", and I got the impression that he's a good guy, and so I doubt that he hates America.

Freedom is given by the hand of god, not the good graces of a state, government or nation. Freedom is a right, not a privelege.

 

[Donkey1499]

But just because someone doesn't join the military, it doesn't make them un-patriotic.

 

[TimmyBoy]

But just because someone doesn't join the military, it doesn't make them un-patriotic.

That's true, but I would think that those who don't join the military would be patriotic and support my fair proposals, or be willing to be drafted and put their lives on the line, since they are such patriots.

 

[TurtleDude]

That's true, but I would think that those who don't join the military would be patriotic and support my fair proposals, or be willing to be drafted and put their lives on the line, since they are such patriots.

Your proposals are neither fair nor rational. You appear to be much like Aesop's unfortunate fox who wants others to share the misery you voluntarily brought upon yourself.

 

[128shot]

I'm going to touch on the Indonesia incident when he so kindly bringed up, but I in no way share this opinion with timmy in anyway shape or form, its my own, and for god sakes if anyone even tries to associate it otherwise I'll spam your email so much it'll make your grandchildren cry.


So anyway.



USA tends to put on a show sometimes. By fair as a people we're often very caring and legitimate in our causes, but this isn't always reflected in our government because the people don't take part in the government.


Less than 40% of the USA votes, thats less than all those in Iraq who have, regardless of what you think of their consitution or election.


This leaves a nice big gap of control for those who turn a blind eye to oppression for profit, which happend in Indonesia years ago, and it was most certainly a USA backed coup.


I find it sad, but at the same time I feel nothing for them at all. Was it because the USA alone backed their dictator? Or could the people try and take back what they believe is theres peacefully? I don't know, I think they're afraid that revolution against the west will bring on another "Iraq incident" (no comment from the peanut gallery here, I'm up in arms about the Iraq war personally, I'm trying to express the views of those who feel oppressed by the west friendly govs who are seen as controlled by the USA)


Not to mention we AID countrys such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia that have been known to sponsor terrorists and give them military aid, even though to the Saudi's credit they are reforming a little, but its hardly what I call pressure from western nations to stop terrorism on the Sauds. Oil is just too important, and I imagine thats why we have friendly relations.




I'M IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM TRYING TO JUSTIFY 9/11 AND THOSE WHO ACCUSE ME SO WILL MEET THE EMAIL SPAMMING OF THEIR LIFE

 

[TimmyBoy]

Your proposals are neither fair nor rational. You appear to be much like Aesop's unfortunate fox who wants others to share the misery you voluntarily brought upon yourself.

Why, I figuired a patriotic fellow like yourself would volunteer for such misery, to do your duty, even if it means being miserable sometimes. But then again, when you are a lawyer, making big Gs, why bother with such of duty, honor, country and patriotism eh?

 

[TurtleDude]

Why, I figuired a patriotic fellow like yourself would volunteer for such misery, to do your duty, even if it means being miserable sometimes. But then again, when you are a lawyer, making big Gs, why bother with such of duty, honor, country and patriotism eh?

You have no clue about my service Timmy boy and your concept of duty and patriotism is both laughably ignorant and pathetically warped

 

[TimmyBoy]

I'm going to touch on the Indonesia incident when he so kindly bringed up, but I in no way share this opinion with timmy in anyway shape or form, its my own, and for god sakes if anyone even tries to associate it otherwise I'll spam your email so much it'll make your grandchildren cry.


So anyway.



USA tends to put on a show sometimes. By fair as a people we're often very caring and legitimate in our causes, but this isn't always reflected in our government because the people don't take part in the government.


Less than 40% of the USA votes, thats less than all those in Iraq who have, regardless of what you think of their consitution or election.


This leaves a nice big gap of control for those who turn a blind eye to oppression for profit, which happend in Indonesia years ago, and it was most certainly a USA backed coup.


I find it sad, but at the same time I feel nothing for them at all. Was it because the USA alone backed their dictator? Or could the people try and take back what they believe is theres peacefully? I don't know, I think they're afraid that revolution against the west will bring on another "Iraq incident" (no comment from the peanut gallery here, I'm up in arms about the Iraq war personally, I'm trying to express the views of those who feel oppressed by the west friendly govs who are seen as controlled by the USA)


Not to mention we AID countrys such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia that have been known to sponsor terrorists and give them military aid, even though to the Saudi's credit they are reforming a little, but its hardly what I call pressure from western nations to stop terrorism on the Sauds. Oil is just too important, and I imagine thats why we have friendly relations.




I'M IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM TRYING TO JUSTIFY 9/11 AND THOSE WHO ACCUSE ME SO WILL MEET THE EMAIL SPAMMING OF THEIR LIFE

Ahh BS, you are trying to justify 9-11. You are part of the "blame America" crowd. We don't need such free thinkers like you questioning authority and getting in the way of things. You just "hate America."