The American people, progressive, are the real victims this election

[Craig234]

It's critical that we vote for Biden to remove trump. But that doesn't leave the American people with the policies they want and need.

Last night, Biden trashed Medicare for all. He trashed reducing the funding for militarized police departments. He trashed the Green New Deal, only committing to return to the Paris Accord understood to be not nearly enough, and made an offer about Brazil they immediately rejected.

I haven't heard Biden say a word about righting wrongs, from ending the persecution of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, to the Guantanamo detention.

Hopefully, we get Biden. But that leaves the American people without a lot of policies they need and want, often a majority. And there's no voice for that right now - and it's hard to see why there would be the next four years and after.

 

[OlNate]

It's critical that we vote for Biden to remove trump. But that doesn't leave the American people with the policies they want and need.

Last night, Biden trashed Medicare for all. He trashed reducing the funding for militarized police departments. He trashed the Green New Deal, only committing to return to the Paris Accord understood to be not nearly enough, and made an offer about Brazil they immediately rejected.

I haven't heard Biden say a word about righting wrongs, from ending the persecution of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, to the Guantanamo detention.

Hopefully, we get Biden. But that leaves the American people without a lot of policies they need and want, often a majority. And there's no voice for that right now - and it's hard to see why there would be the next four years and after.

Progress is a long game. That's what a lot of progressives today are missing. There is no instant gratification, and all the shortcuts have been demonstrated as mistakes when used in the past. The change you need to drive doesn't happen in government...it happens in the citizenry, and then, after some time, the government catches up. That's super normal. Best you can hope to achieve with your vote is harm reduction. If you get Biden in, you do that. It sucks, but you only have a binary to work with...

 

[Hypothetical]

It's critical that we vote for Biden to remove trump. But that doesn't leave the American people with the policies they want and need.

Last night, Biden trashed Medicare for all. He trashed reducing the funding for militarized police departments. He trashed the Green New Deal, only committing to return to the Paris Accord understood to be not nearly enough, and made an offer about Brazil they immediately rejected.

I haven't heard Biden say a word about righting wrongs, from ending the persecution of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, to the Guantanamo detention.

Hopefully, we get Biden. But that leaves the American people without a lot of policies they need and want, often a majority. And there's no voice for that right now - and it's hard to see why there would be the next four years and after.

regardless of what you think about trump, Biden is only really about him and his plutocratic globalist donors power.

personally, I do not doubt they would not mind turning us into China. that way they can run their sweatshops closer to home and save money.

 

[Chomsky]

It's critical that we vote for Biden to remove trump. But that doesn't leave the American people with the policies they want and need.

Last night, Biden trashed Medicare for all. He trashed reducing the funding for militarized police departments. He trashed the Green New Deal, only committing to return to the Paris Accord understood to be not nearly enough, and made an offer about Brazil they immediately rejected.

I haven't heard Biden say a word about righting wrongs, from ending the persecution of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, to the Guantanamo detention.

Hopefully, we get Biden. But that leaves the American people without a lot of policies they need and want, often a majority. And there's no voice for that right now - and it's hard to see why there would be the next four years and after.

I think we should stand-back & let the man do what he needs to do to get elected. he is in campaign mode, and the stakes are high. When he's in, then we can see what he does through his actions. Everything I've seen leads me to believe he is going to have a broad & diverse administration.

 

[Craig234]

I think we should stand-back & let the man do what he needs to do to get elected. he is in campaign mode, and the stakes are high. When he's in, then we can see what he does through his actions. Everything I've seen leads me to believe he is going to have a broad & diverse administration.

Thing is, I think he's unlikely to 'move to the left' after the election. I think he just needs Bernie voters to win, and then doesn't need to pay attention to them again. A bit like Obama. It's not broad or diverse I'm looking at, it's policy. Unfortunately, the lack of choice - 'terrible far right' and 'centrist', full plutocracy or plutocracy-light - appears it'll continue for years.

 

[Master Debator]

Thing is, I think he's unlikely to 'move to the left' after the election. I think he just needs Bernie voters to win, and then doesn't need to pay attention to them again. A bit like Obama. It's not broad or diverse I'm looking at, it's policy. Unfortunately, the lack of choice - 'terrible far right' and 'centrist', full plutocracy or plutocracy-light - appears it'll continue for years.

I don't get that from Biden. He seems pretty malleable to me mostly because he seems to be a people pleaser. When he's talking to the general public I think he assumes they're mostly moderate and plays to that. I think there's plenty of space there for Bernie and the young progressives to nudge him left.

 

[Chomsky]

Thing is, I think he's unlikely to 'move to the left' after the election. I think he just needs Bernie voters to win, and then doesn't need to pay attention to them again. A bit like Obama. It's not broad or diverse I'm looking at, it's policy. Unfortunately, the lack of choice - 'terrible far right' and 'centrist', full plutocracy or plutocracy-light - appears it'll continue for years.

He's playing to what he thinks will win, I believe. Can't blame him. I know you're of the school to pull full-Left, and you may indeed be right. But Biden's doing what he knows, and it seems to be working (relatively).

But he knows he's the vehicle to get the Democratic Party power, and transition it to the next generation. He may surprise us with his Liberalism. We don't know. It's no longer Clinton's or even Obama's party. Biden is cognizant of this, I'm sure.

 

[Craig234]

I don't get that from Biden. He seems pretty malleable to me mostly because he seems to be a people pleaser. When he's talking to the general public I think he assumes they're mostly moderate and plays to that. I think there's plenty of space there for Bernie and the young progressives to nudge him left.

That's a style issue, not a policy issue. Anything he's given to Bernie, has been kicking and screaming. Unfortunately, he has a long history of policy that is not progressive. But, like with Obama who was a disappointment, let's hope for the best.

 

[Chomsky]

I don't get that from Biden. He seems pretty malleable to me mostly because he seems to be a people pleaser. When he's talking to the general public I think he assumes they're mostly moderate and plays to that. I think there's plenty of space there for Bernie and the young progressives to nudge him left.

Plus I suspect Biden is very conscious of his being the vehicle to transition the party to the next generation. If anything, the Obama's & Biden (especially Obama) are thoughtful and mindful of history.

I'm tellin' ya', it'll be great to see the Obama's back in government!

 

[Craig234]

He's playing to what he thinks will win, I believe. Can't blame him. I know you're of the school to pull full-Left, and you may indeed be right. But Biden's doing what he knows, and it seems to be working (relatively).

Oh, I agree he's campaigning to win. I'm not talking about his campaigning. I'm talking about where I think he 'really is'. If I thought he was just 'running to the center to win', that'd be very different. There's a war in the Democratic Party between the corporatists and progressives, and the corporatists saved his candidacy, and now he's their indebted general against the progressives.

 

[Craig234]

Plus I suspect Biden is very conscious of his being the vehicle to transition the party to the next generation. If anything, the Obama's & Biden (especially Obama) are thoughtful and mindful of history.

I'm tellin' ya', it'll be great to see the Obama's back in government!

I have no idea what you're talking about, 'mindful of history'. Obama ran as a progressive and governed as a 'moderate Republican' (his words).

I agree it'll be great to see even the corporatist Democrats back instead of Republicans, but we progressives need to realize that our enemies *within the party* are in power, with our help, and the fight continues for the party.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I don't get that from Biden. He seems pretty malleable to me mostly because he seems to be a people pleaser. When he's talking to the general public I think he assumes they're mostly moderate and plays to that. I think there's plenty of space there for Bernie and the young progressives to nudge him left.

Shame the country as a whole doesn't want to go there with you.

 

[Chomsky]

I don't get that from Biden. He seems pretty malleable to me mostly because he seems to be a people pleaser. When he's talking to the general public I think he assumes they're mostly moderate and plays to that. I think there's plenty of space there for Bernie and the young progressives to nudge him left.

To add:

If Biden won't fully give the young progressives their proper seat, I'm hoping an eventual Harris will.

But I'm thinking Biden is going to very much incorporate Bernie into his administration. And Bernie is an actualizing altruistic true-believer, that will not be denied. He will not alow himself to be used as a figure-head.

Hell, I'm getting all excited just thinking of the prospects!

 

[Master Debator]

To add:

If Biden won't fully give the young progressives their proper seat, I'm hoping an eventual Harris will.

But I'm thinking Biden is going to very much incorporate Bernie into his administration. And Bernie is an actualizing altruistic true-believer, that will not be denied. He will not alow himself to be used as a figure-head.

Hell, I'm getting all excited just thinking of the prospects!

The country is moving that way whether Biden helps or not. Politics is always the last thing to budge. If not Biden then the next Democratic president or the one after that.

 

[Chomsky]

I have no idea what you're talking about, 'mindful of history'. Obama ran as a progressive and governed as a 'moderate Republican' (his words).

I agree it'll be great to see even the corporatist Democrats back instead of Republicans, but we progressives need to realize that our enemies *within the party* are in power, with our help, and the fight continues for the party.

What I'm getting at here is that I believe Obama & Biden are 'mindful' of their place in history. That being they're cognizant of their current place facilitating the changing of the guard. They saw Bernie's rise and the Clinton's fall. They see the changes in their party, and their place as the previous guard. I'm hoping they're understanding of that, and are willing to facilitate the change, that they can see the future, and the failures that gave us the misery of Trump.

 

[redbeer]

It's critical that we vote for Biden to remove trump. But that doesn't leave the American people with the policies they want and need.

Last night, Biden trashed Medicare for all. He trashed reducing the funding for militarized police departments. He trashed the Green New Deal, only committing to return to the Paris Accord understood to be not nearly enough, and made an offer about Brazil they immediately rejected.

I haven't heard Biden say a word about righting wrongs, from ending the persecution of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, to the Guantanamo detention.

Hopefully, we get Biden. But that leaves the American people without a lot of policies they need and want, often a majority. And there's no voice for that right now - and it's hard to see why there would be the next four years and after.

Biden is a career "politician", and that's the problem. He says what he needs to say to appease a certain group, then once voted in, pays them no mind. In other words, a professional bs artist. There is no enthusiasm for Biden, and now he is distancing himself from the far left. Biden will only bring four more years of the same ole bull, high and mighty words with no action, all the while his family, friends, and large donors take it to the bank. The American People are way, way past this kind of politician.

 

[Master Debator]

That's a style issue, not a policy issue. Anything he's given to Bernie, has been kicking and screaming. Unfortunately, he has a long history of policy that is not progressive. But, like with Obama who was a disappointment, let's hope for the best.

Do you expect the moderates to roll over for you? Bernie was too soft on Biden in the primaries, as he was with Hillary in the last election. If progressives want their policies pushed they're going to have to get in there and throw some elbows and eye gouges Biden and Pelosi's way.

 

[Chomsky]

The country is moving that way whether Biden helps or not. Politics is always the last thing to budge. If not Biden then the next Democratic president or the one after that.

I'm suspecting (hoping) Harris, if she prevails in becoming President, would then be the great facilitator in brining the progressive ethos into government. But honestly, I think Biden is going to give Bernie a prominent spot in his administration, and hopefully let him implement some policy.

 

[Master Debator]

I'm suspecting (hoping) Harris, if she prevails in becoming President, would then be the great facilitator in brining the progressive ethos into government. But honestly, I think Biden is going to give Bernie a prominent spot in his administration, and hopefully let him implement some policy.

Yea, I think he understands Bernie represents a good chunk of the party and that AOC and the squad are probably its future so I can see him trying to act as the bridge between them and Pelosi and Schumer. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him also throwing a life raft to Republicans when he should just let the drown for the good of the country.

 

[Integrityrespec]

To add:

If Biden won't fully give the young progressives their proper seat, I'm hoping an eventual Harris will.

But I'm thinking Biden is going to very much incorporate Bernie into his administration. And Bernie is an actualizing altruistic true-believer, that will not be denied. He will not alow himself to be used as a figure-head.

Hell, I'm getting all excited just thinking of the prospects!

You don't seem to realize the "young progressives" are in the minority of the democrat party and while the democrats need their votes and will promise them the moon to get them, they will ignore them after the votes are cast because even most democrats aren't as far left as the most progressive members of the party.

 

[Chillfolks]

Let's hope if Biden wins he keeps us off the idiotic path some progressives wish to go down.

 

[Redress]

It's critical that we vote for Biden to remove trump. But that doesn't leave the American people with the policies they want and need.

Last night, Biden trashed Medicare for all. He trashed reducing the funding for militarized police departments. He trashed the Green New Deal, only committing to return to the Paris Accord understood to be not nearly enough, and made an offer about Brazil they immediately rejected.

I haven't heard Biden say a word about righting wrongs, from ending the persecution of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden, to the Guantanamo detention.

Hopefully, we get Biden. But that leaves the American people without a lot of policies they need and want, often a majority. And there's no voice for that right now - and it's hard to see why there would be the next four years and after.

So what you are saying is Biden is a whole lot stronger on the issues than "progressives" like Sanders and AOC. I kinda knew that.

 

[Chomsky]

Yea, I think he understands Bernie represents a good chunk of the party and that AOC and the squad are probably its future so I can see him trying to act as the bridge between them and Pelosi and Schumer. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him also throwing a life raft to Republicans when he should just let the drown for the good of the country.

Well, he has to pick-off enough of them to accomplish his goals and stay in office. But I can't imagine or more disgusting unworthy bunch.

 

[Craig234]

So what you are saying is Biden is a whole lot stronger on the issues than "progressives" like Sanders and AOC. I kinda knew that.

That's poor reading comprehension. I said the opposite.

 

[Craig234]

But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him also throwing a life raft to Republicans when he should just let the drown for the good of the country.

What in the hell are you talking about? Bernie is the one strong against Republicans, Biden is the one who talked about wanting to return to working with them more.