• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

The ACLU will kill us all yet.

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
How ridiculous can it get? When do the American people get up on their own two hind legs and demand a stop to this nonsense? More touchy-feely and political correcness insanity on parade.
================================
NYCLU sues city over subway searches

BY JOSHUA ROBIN and DAN JANISON
STAFF WRITERS

August 4, 2005

The New York Civil Liberties Union will file suit against the city Thursday to keep police from searching the bags of passengers entering the subway, organization lawyers said.

The suit, which will be filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, will claim that the two-week old policy violates constitutional guarantees of equal protection and prohibitions against unlawful searches and seizures, while doing almost nothing to shield the city from terrorism.

It argues that the measure also allows the possibility for racial profiling, even though officers are ordered to randomly screen passengers.

"While concerns about terrorism of course justify -- indeed, require -- aggressive police tactics, those concerns cannot justify the Police Department's unprecedented policy of subjecting millions of innocent people to suspicionless searches," states the suit, a partial copy of which was provided to Newsday.



(Snip)

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local...46390,print.story?coll=nyc-homepage-breaking2
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Simon W. Moon

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
22,807
Reaction score
8,096
Location
Fayettenam
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Do you think that our constitutional rights are worth dying for?

Did you purchase reprint rights for that article?
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Simon W. Moon said:
Do you think that our constitutional rights are worth dying for?

Did you purchase reprint rights for that article?
Are you here to debate or what? Our constitutional rights won't be worth a dime if we are vaporized by a nuclear attack.

Would you like to defend the ACLU? Will you defend them after NYC is reduced to radioactive rubble and millions are dead? Do you have any idea how hard it will be to dispose of over a million dead and decaying bodies? The stench? The horror? Our economic system in collapse. Riots in the streets? Mobs everywhere. This is what the ACLU would protect. They don't give a damn about our constitutional rights. They are only concerned about THEIR rights to undermine our national security.
 

Simon W. Moon

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
22,807
Reaction score
8,096
Location
Fayettenam
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Missouri Mule said:
Our constitutional rights won't be worth a dime if we are vaporized by a nuclear attack.
So, how many would you like to give up on the very small chance that there's a backpack nuke with NY's name on it?

Generally, the veiw has been that protecting our Constitutional rights is worth dying for. That's why we send our military to "defend out freedoms."

If you're ready to roll over at any Chicken Little scare that's your personal business.

But that doesn't make our Constituional rights any less valuable or make defending them "ridiculuous" or "nonsense" or "touchy-feely and political correcness insanity" even though it may mean that someone may die.

Missouri Mule said:
Will you defend them after NYC is reduced to radioactive rubble and millions are dead? Do you have any idea how hard it will be to dispose of over a million dead and decaying bodies? The stench? The horror? Our economic system in collapse. Riots in the streets? Mobs everywhere.
"The sky is falling! The sky is falling! It's falling, the sky! Quick, everybody roll over and give up your Constitutional rights."

I prefer to think that Americans are made of sterner stuff than to run scared because a few bombs go off in a subway. Look at how much we were willing to sacrifice over the years -literaly millions of lives to protect the freedoms you'd yeild up at the drop of a bomb or two.

Missouri Mule said:
This is what the ACLU would protect. They don't give a damn about our constitutional rights. They are only concerned about THEIR rights to undermine our national security.
What quaint hyperbolic straw man.
 
Last edited:

Navy Pride

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
39,883
Reaction score
3,070
Location
Pacific NW
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Make no mistake about it the ACLU is a very left wing organization and is the biggest threat to the security of this country........

Did you people know they are defending a pedophile organization?
 

Simon W. Moon

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
22,807
Reaction score
8,096
Location
Fayettenam
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Navy Pride said:
...the ACLU is ... the biggest threat to the security of this country...
And, yet again, Bullshit.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Navy Pride said:
Did you people know they are defending a pedophile organization?
And has been discussed previously with you, that's horrible UNLESS you know all of the facts.
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Simon W. Moon said:
So, how many would you like to give up on the very small chance that there's a backpack nuke with NY's name on it?

Generally, the veiw has been that protecting our Constitutional rights is worth dying for. That's why we send our military to "defend out freedoms."

If you're ready to roll over at any Chicken Little scare that's your personal business.

But that doesn't make our Constituional rights any less valuable or make defending them "ridiculuous" or "nonsense" or "touchy-feely and political correcness insanity" even though it may mean that someone may die.

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling! It's falling, the sky! Quick, everybody roll over and give up your Constitutional rights."

I prefer to think that Americans are made of sterner stuff than to run scared because a few bombs go off in a subway. Look at how much we were willing to sacrifice over the years -literaly millions of lives to protect the freedoms you'd yeild up at the drop of a bomb or two.

What quaint hyperbolic straw man.
You know, it is when I read posts like you that I realize yet again how poorly informed are the students and citizens are today. We have hardly been inconvienced and the left is howling that our rights are being taken away. Not that it would make any difference but try checking out what took place during our Civil War, WWI and WWII and then put this into perspective.

It is not me who is the Chicken Little. It is the left with no perspective. The liberal educational establishment has so inculcated the young people of today with leftist dogma (political correctness) they are just like lambs being led to the slaughter. You can go there by yourself. I won't be along with you. Nor would I think any other rational American.
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
shuamort said:
And has been discussed previously with you, that's horrible UNLESS you know all of the facts.
No decent organization would under any circumstances provide legal counsel to such scum. I don't need no stinking facts to know that pedophiles belong under the jail. It should be an automatic life sentence and castration. How many young children should be subjected to these vermin? How many? How high do the bodies have to be piled? How many lives ruined and the ACLU represents these creeps? Does that tell anyone here what kind of an organization this is? It should.
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
galenrox said:
So let me get this straight:
You are afraid that we're all gonna die unless we give away our rights
We don't want to give away our rights
And thus we're paranoid.
Do you see the flaws in your logic.

A rational American realizes that we don't need to give away our rights if our government does its job. You apparently don't view the role of government to protect us, even though I'm sure your down with the billions of dollars (your tax dollars) we spend on security, but you feel that even when they have all these brilliant people and the billions of dollars they spend, and they can't protect us within the rules of the United States.

I honestly don't know how you can even consider yourself an American. You're a coward, since you're so willing to sacrifice all that America stands for (i.e. exactly what the terrorists want us to do) just because you're scared. Just for reference, there's nothing in Missouri worth blowing up. Along with that, you seem to hate freedom, and people who think freedom is something worth defending, so I really can't comprehend how you consider yourself an American.
Other than being an insulting and rather mindless post you hardly established anything other than you are one of many liberal kool-aid drinkers who believe what they are told to believe. "There's nothing in Missouri worth blowing up." Where did you come up with that gem?

"Your rights", "Your rights." That's going to get a lot of people killed. You talk like this is Nazi Germany where they said "show us your papers" and then led the Jews away to be shot or put into concentration camps. It's absurd, really. You have no historical perspective but I'm not surprised. Very few young people have any idea of our history; what it took for our nation to be founded and the blood and sacrifice of patriots who did the dirty work while fools could sit at home and bellyache about "their rights."
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Missouri Mule said:
No decent organization would under any circumstances provide legal counsel to such scum. I don't need no stinking facts to know that pedophiles belong under the jail. It should be an automatic life sentence and castration. How many young children should be subjected to these vermin? How many? How high do the bodies have to be piled? How many lives ruined and the ACLU represents these creeps? Does that tell anyone here what kind of an organization this is? It should.
It's curious that you're so anti-american. What's wrong with the freedom of speech?
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
shuamort said:
It's curious that you're so anti-american. What's wrong with the freedom of speech?
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. When did our Constitution become a suicide pact?

It is absurd to believe that I am anti-American.
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
galenrox said:
how is it absurd? You hate our freedoms, which is the most basic part of what this country was formed, and essentially the way America works is "hate our freedom, hate us".
If you don't feel safe being an American, you can leave. But America stays.
Your posts are getting absurd. Get back with me when you research our actions in the Civil War, WWI and WWII and then we can talk again.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Missouri Mule said:
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. When did our Constitution become a suicide pact?
It always has been. People have always fought and died so we can retain the rights that are guaranteed by our constitution.

Missouri Mule said:
It is absurd to believe that I am anti-American.
As are your claims about the ACLU. My rhetoric was just a response to yours.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Missouri Mule said:
Your posts are getting absurd. Get back with me when you research our actions in the Civil War, WWI and WWII and then we can talk again.
Why don't you open up another thread about those since you are pretending to lord information over others about them.
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
shuamort said:
Why don't you open up another thread about those since you are pretending to lord information over others about them.
I don't think so but you can if you want. I believe you have already answered my question.
 

Deegan

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
5,528
Reaction score
2
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The ACLU is making a lot of enemies in the U.S, this is clear, and must be considered before jumping to their defense. I have always said I feel better knowing they are there, rather then not, but they have allowed a leftist slant on their pet projects, and they should always remain bi-partisan in their fight for justice.
 
Last edited:

Simon W. Moon

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
22,807
Reaction score
8,096
Location
Fayettenam
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Missouri Mule said:
You know, it is when I read posts like you that I realize yet again how poorly informed are the students and citizens are today.
Feel free to inform away. I encourage you to do so.

Missouri Mule said:
We have hardly been inconvienced and the left is howling that our rights are being taken away.
It's not merely "the left" as you're so apt to put it. (As if that somehow in and of itself renders the objections moot.)
Is it your contention that we should wait until we're majorly 'inconvenienced' before we stand up for our American rights?

Missouri Mule said:
Not that it would make any difference but try checking out what took place during our Civil War, WWI and WWII and then put this into perspective.
I've already done that. I reached the conclusion I reached and posted above.
If there's some specific thing or things you think I've missed, please enlighten me. This is what the debate forum is all about.
Your free advice doesn't actually constitute a rebuttal, offer a glimpse into your special insight or advance the debate any at all.
If you have some points about the unnamed events you've only obliquely alluded to, please, by all means make them.
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Simon W. Moon said:
Feel free to inform away. I encourage you to do so.

It's not merely "the left" as you're so apt to put it. (As if that somehow in and of itself renders the objections moot.)
Is it your contention that we should wait until we're majorly 'inconvenienced' before we stand up for our American rights?

I've already done that. I reached the conclusion I reached and posted above.

If there's some specific thing or things you think I've missed, please enlighten me. This is what the debate forum is all about.
Your free advice doesn't actually constitute a rebuttal, offer a glimpse into your special insight or advance the debate any at all.

If you have some points about the unnamed events you've only obliquely alluded to, please, by all means make them.
Are you familiar with Lincoln's abolishing Habeas Corpus during the Civil War, the "Palmer Raids" during WWI and the Japanese Interment Camps during WWII? Or more recently the era of McCarthy? I find the subject of the Palmer Raids most fascinating. And by all means check out the history of Emma Goldman.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Missouri Mule said:
Are you familiar with Lincoln's abolishing Habeas Corpus during the Civil War, the "Palmer Raids" during WWI and the Japanese Interment Camps during WWII? Or more recently the era of McCarthy? I find the subject of the Palmer Raids most fascinating. And by all means check out the history of Emma Goldman.
Are you holding these things up as mistakes of the past or as shining examples of how a country should operate?
 

Missouri Mule

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,406
Reaction score
48
Location
Hot Springs, Arkansas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
shuamort said:
Are you holding these things up as mistakes of the past or as shining examples of how a country should operate?
I support Lincoln's actions completely. No to the Palmer Raids, no to the Japanese internments and certainly no to McCarthy. Are you familiar with Emma Goldman? Her story is a particularly interesting story and interested history students should make a point of finding out all about who she was, what she believed in and how her life ended up.

My point is that all of the hysteria of the left about "our rights" only reinforces in my own mind they are completely clueless about our history. God only knows how hysterical they will become if we have a nuclear strike within this country and the exrement REALLY hits the fan. No doubt they will just swoon at the thought. Really have a case of the vapors, I suspect.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Emma Goldman's life was pretty interesting. Here's a quick summation for those interested.

As for the rights granted by the constitution, I'd rather be hit by a nuclear bomb than losing them. What's the point of having them if we're going to give them up at the ghost of every possible conceivable mishap?
 

Alex

DP Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,963
Reaction score
855
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Without the heroic efforts of the ACLU we would be under the scrutiny of the government instead of the government being under the scrutiny of us. I thank the stars everyday that the ACLU is around. They ensure that our basic freedoms from government are secure.

As for the case the ACLU has taken involving the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA), they are not defending the act of pedophilia. They are defending the right of the organization to exist and express themselves. A man who had viewed NAMBLA material killed a young boy. The man is in prison now for life without the chance of parole. Now the family of the boy is suing NAMBLA because the killer had their materials. The killer's actions are not the responsibility of NAMBLA; they are his actions and his responsibility alone. This is another case of parents looking for people to blame for their child's death when the person to blame is already being punished. They mistakenly believe that the way to ease their pain is by blaming as many people as possible. As much as we all disagree with NAMBLA's ideologies, it is their right to exist and express themselves in a non-criminal manner, which they have.

Source:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,38540,00.html
 

Simon W. Moon

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
22,807
Reaction score
8,096
Location
Fayettenam
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Missouri Mule said:
Are you familiar with Lincoln's abolishing Habeas Corpus during the Civil War, the "Palmer Raids" during WWI and the Japanese Interment Camps during WWII?
Are you asserting that the arbitrary abrogation of rights is proper, good or inconsequential simply because it's been done before?
 

Navy Pride

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
39,883
Reaction score
3,070
Location
Pacific NW
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
shuamort said:
And has been discussed previously with you, that's horrible UNLESS you know all of the facts.
It is pretty obvious you have never had children.......As far as I am concerned any adult that preys on and innocent child deserve no defense............I believe that pedophiles should be executed and I do know all the facts.............

do you?
 
Top Bottom