The 2016 Presidential Primary, Conventions, Election, and Aftermath

[cpwill]

READ. Where did I say Cruz was responsible for the ad? ...

Literally it was one page back.

However Cruz did attack Trump's wife (see Utah primary)

 

[Howler63]

I can't, in good conscience, vote for Trump. I can't, in good conscience, vote for Hillary. So I likely will vote my local and state races and any Congressional seats and vote 'None of the Above" for President.

(I can just imagine millions of people on election day, looking dumbfounded while shaking their heads at their ballots, and wondering why on Earth we can't do any better than those two.)

 

[AlbqOwl]

:lol: anything that tells you anything you don't want to hear is "propaganda". Those sources cite the man's own words.

But okedoke. We'll go one by one.


Claim: Trump bragged about committing adultery with other mens' wives.

You say: Propaganda? Or True?

Propaganda is anything taken out of context or made up out of whole cloth to promote or condemn another person, group, or point of view. I have read a ton of it directed toward a lot of candidates on both sides of the aisle during this and all other campaigns. I am as dismissive of it regardless who it is directed at and try very hard not to engage in it myself.

I repeat that those who have no argument other than to attack me/my message and/or others/their message and feel it necessary to engage in hyperbole, questionable rhetoric, or whatever to discredit the person they oppose don't have a very good argument. They don't have a very good argument to discredit the other person, and in fact make that person look better when they engage in it--that's why Trump's poll numbers go up everything somebody tries that on him--and they do nothing to inspire confidence in the candidate of their choice and/or make that candidate look more appealing.

 

[Lovebug]

I can't, in good conscience, vote for Trump. I can't, in good conscience, vote for Hillary. So I likely will vote my local and state races and any Congressional seats and vote 'None of the Above" for President.

(I can just imagine millions of people on election day, looking dumbfounded while shaking their heads at their ballots, and wondering why on Earth we can't do any better than those two.)

I think that is a very smart start. To balance whomever goes to the WH, we need to send the right people to Congress. But we have to be careful. Sending a bunch of mules to stall just about anything doesn't bode well for us. We need people who are willing to set their egos aside and start working for us.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I don't know if they're do "equal harm". I don't actually care on that. If one person slits my throat, and another person slits my throat, then puts three bullets in my chest, then burns my body...the second person did more "harm" to my body, but all that mattered was at the start they both killed me. Everything after that is simply irrelevant when it comes to my life.

As I said above, that's how I view it with my vote. If I HONESTLY feel that a person will fundamentally harm the foundational principles of the country and potentially do lasting and substantial harm to it, that puts them at 0 immediately. That puts them as low as they can possibly go, and that's where they're at. Someone being "worse" about those things doesn't take them to negative numbers, it's a scale of 0 to 100. Dead is dead; and in this case, they're metaphorically killed their chance of me supporting them when I come to that initial conclusion (unless they're able to change my mind of that conclusion).

You, as has been apparently clear from a multitude of your posts in this thread and over the past weeks/months, have no big issue with Trump, seemingly are happy to support him as the nominee, and are constantly apologizing for him and criticizing/questioning any of those that disagree. And that's fine. But no matter how much you want to delude yourself about it, your opinions don't inherently constitute "common sense" nor are they absolute or more "correct" than anyone elses.

You can go on hoping all you want. You're absolutely free to. And if you feel the way you are stating, you absolutely should cast your vote for Trump. And those who don't feel that way, and feel that he would be just as harmful to this country as a President Clinton, and see much of your arguments and contortions about who he is/what he does/what he will do as bull**** or ridiculous, will likely, and should likely, not cast their vote for him.

You seem to have missed the fact that no one in this thread is declaring Trump supporters shouldn't be voting for Trump, or their wasting their vote for going with Trump, or trying to shame them into NOT voting for Trump and to instead vote third party or something else. The only ones attempting to push, advocate, or defend those type of tactics is your towards those who won't vote for Trump.

So yes, we will just have to disagree on that.

We know what we are getting with Hillary. And I honestly have tried--especially trying to co-coach a debate team who had to promote her as the candidate--to come up with something I felt I could honestly commend her on. I came up with nothing. I just had to help the kids fabricate a tissue of lies so they would have something to argue. And I knew full well if the other side was well coached, none of those argument would hold up.

On the Trump side it was much much easier. Yes the man has done some questionable things. Yes the man can be insulting or even petty sometimes. Yes he is entirely unconventional and thoroughly politically incorrect while offering allegiance to no political party and no commitment to any ideology. But it was extremely easy to compile a list of accomplishments, skill sets, qualities, and successes that would be strong attributes to admire in a President.

In short I know what we will get with a President Clinton. I hope what we will get with a President Trump is the best that is in a man who in many ways is a very good man.

[/QUOTE]

If what you say about me is true, then I profoundly apologize because I am out of line. My objective is to rebut the argument others are making, if I disagree, or concur if I agree. But if I have been engaging in 'shaming' or other unacceptable behavior here, most especially if I am the only one to do that, then I am way out of bounds and should withdraw. That was in no way what I intended. Thanks for pointing that out.

I do appreciate everybody's participation in the thread though. And hope all have a good day.

 

[clownboy]

Literally it was one page back.

The post you quoted does say the ad was put out by Cruz. And Cruz used the ad to attack Trump through his wife in his Utah speeches to the faithful.

You see, that's the same behavior as Lyin ted. You knew the context I was using when I said that Cruz attacked Trump's wife. You also knew I didn't claim that Cruz released the ad. But instead of acknowledging that honestly, you played the doublespeak game Cruz plays.

 

[Chomsky]

LOL for sure. And for reasons unnecessary to go into here, I have had conversations with quite a few gals and one guy who entered into real life relationships with somebody they met on line. There have been exceptions when these have turned out somewhat well, but most have not turned out well.

Fortunately with Trump or anybody else running for office, we aren't limited to silly tweets or an on-line conversation to judge the measure of the person. We have testimony from their family, friends, colleagues, associates, volumes of material written about them, and opportunity to observe them in hours and hours on television. We all are many different personalities rolled into one persona. And we can never be 100% sure which of those personalities is the one that is going to show up.

I just have hope that if Trump is in fact the standard bearer for the Republicans, the best Trump there is will be the one who shows up.

Well said! :thumbs:

Some might say, "many moods rolled into one personality" - but the underlying concept remains the same and is accurate, I believe!

Which is why we need to always be careful when making (an important) first impression!

 

[cpwill]

Propaganda is anything taken out of context or made up out of whole cloth to promote or condemn another person, group, or point of view. I have read a ton of it directed toward a lot of candidates on both sides of the aisle during this and all other campaigns. I am as dismissive of it regardless who it is directed at and try very hard not to engage in it myself.

Okedoke.

The claim is that, in his book, Donald Trump bragged about sleeping with other mens' wives.

Is that

A) Taken out of context
B) Made up whole cloth
or
C) Accurate

You are avoiding dealing with what Trump has actually done and actually said.

I repeat that those who have no argument other than to attack me/my message and/or others/their message and feel it necessary to engage in hyperbole, questionable rhetoric, or whatever to discredit the person they oppose don't have a very good argument. They don't have a very good argument to discredit the other person, and in fact make that person look better when they engage in it--that's why Trump's poll numbers go up everything somebody tries that on him--and they do nothing to inspire confidence in the candidate of their choice and/or make that candidate look more appealing.

Yeah. Because if there is one thing Trump is known for, it's his reticence to attack his opposition :roll:

 

[cpwill]

The post you quoted does say the ad was put out by Cruz.

No, it doesn't. The post I quoted was you saying that Cruz attacked Trump's wife in Utah. Not only did he not do that, but Trump first lied about it, and then his campaign manager admitted it. As I linked to you.

And Cruz used the ad to attack Trump through his wife in his Utah speeches to the faithful.

Okedoke, please link to where Cruz brought up the ad in his speeches prior to the Utah election without disparaging it.

You see, that's the same behavior as Lyin ted. You knew the context I was using when I said that Cruz attacked Trump's wife. You also knew I didn't claim that Cruz released the ad.

:roll: you stated that Ted Cruz attacked Trump's wife. The reality is that the ad you are bitching about A) wasn't Ted Cruz and B) was denounced by Ted Cruz. The reality is also that Trump responded to a third-party's facebook meme by threatening Heidi Cruz. You then retreated to the position that "he used the ad to attack Trump through his wife in his Utah speeches". Let's see if you can back that claim with evidence.

 

[cpwill]

Oh yeah? What news report was that. I am seeing a ton of stuff on the internet that people are making up for the benefit of the gullible.

Hey, so just out of curiosity, did you ever decide where you stood on Trump accusing Cruz's father of being connected to the JFK assassination? Is it propaganda put out for the gullible by an consortium of Politico, FOX & Friends morning show, and a Trump Voice Actor, or is it actually something Trump did?

 

[Dittohead not!]

Note to Trumpeteers: Cruz has dropped out of the race. It's time to start attacking Kasich instead, as there is no way to promote your favorite as an acceptable candidate in any way whatsoever.

 

[David_N]

Hey, so just out of curiosity, did you ever decide where you stood on Trump accusing Cruz's father of being connected to the JFK assassination? Is it propaganda put out for the gullible by an consortium of Politico, FOX & Friends morning show, and a Trump Voice Actor, or is it actually something Trump did?

Cruz also did 9/11.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Hey, so just out of curiosity, did you ever decide where you stood on Trump accusing Cruz's father of being connected to the JFK assassination? Is it propaganda put out for the gullible by an consortium of Politico, FOX & Friends morning show, and a Trump Voice Actor, or is it actually something Trump did?

No, he did that. After Cruz had again and again called Trump a rapist and approving of rapists, a serial philanderer, and a few other really ugly characterizations. We all know that Trump's MO is to give as good as he gets. Trump doesn't start those kinds of insults fests but he doesn't shy away from them.

I am not condoning that. I thought it childish, unbecoming, and unproductive by both. I hate that kind of thing. But those who are going to condemn Trump for that sort of thing do need to be fair in how their own candidate is behaving. Those who do not insult Trump don't get insulted.

At any rate it was all over last night. Cruz's concession speech and withdrawal from the campaign did not mention Trump at all and was otherwise pretty classy.

Trump began his victory speech by praising Ted for an intelligent, hard fought campaign and wished him, his beautiful wife and family all the best. He ended the speech the same way. And gone was the brash, insulting, mocking Trump and you could almost sense a new tone. One not only to unify the Republican Party but the entire country.

How will it play in Peoria (or anywhere else?) I have no clue but I hold out hope that it will work. At any rate the train has definitely left the station now and it is going to be a fascinating ride to watch.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Kasich has suspended his campaign also.

Trump is all alone now.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Kasich has suspended his campaign also.

Trump is all alone now.

Looks like the Republicans are stuck with him.
but, not too many are actually endorsing him.