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Texas board adopts new social studies curriculum

ludahai

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In final edits leading up to the vote, conservatives rejected language to modernize the classification of historic periods to B.C.E. and C.E. from the traditional B.C. and A.D.

Good.

They also required that public school students in Texas evaluate efforts by global organizations such as the United Nations to undermine U.S. sovereignty.

McLeroy offered the amendment requiring students to evaluate efforts by global organizations including the U.N. to undermine U.S. sovereignty, saying they threatened individual liberty and freedom.

Also, good. It is true in many areas.

During the monthslong process of creating the guidelines, conservatives successfully strengthened the requirements on teaching the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers and attempted to water down rationale for the separation of church and state.

Heaven forbid that we actually teach what the influences of our Founding Fathers were...

The standards will refer to the U.S. government as a "constitutional republic," rather than "democratic,"

Heaven forbid that we teach students what the government of the US REALLY is...

and students will be required to study the decline in the value of the U.S. dollar, including the abandonment of the gold standard.

Heaven forbid we actually teach some BASIC economic understanding...

Conservatives say the Texas history curriculum has been unfairly skewed to the left after years of Democrats controlling the board.

Well, duhh...
 

Boo Radley

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Sounds like an overreaction to a perceived, and likely inaccurate view. Texas gets a lot wrong.
 

Hatuey

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Really? Why? Academics use B.C.E. and C.E. as opposed to B.C. and A.D. - Why do you have such a problem with academics?

Also, good. It is true in many areas.

Only this is subjective to whether or not you believe the U.N. is trying to undermine the sovereignty of the U.S. - Which it isn't.

Heaven forbid that we actually teach what the influences of our Founding Fathers were...

Unless it's Thomas Jefferson.

Texas Conservatives Win Vote on Textbook Standards - NYTimes.com

Cynthia Dunbar, a lawyer from Richmond who is a strict constitutionalist and thinks the nation was founded on Christian beliefs, managed to cut Thomas Jefferson from a list of figures whose writings inspired revolutions in the late 18th century and 19th century, replacing him with St. Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and William Blackstone. (Jefferson is not well liked among conservatives on the board because he coined the term “separation between church and state.”)

Really? St. Thomas Aquinas and John Calvin were more influential in the foundation of the U.S. and the domino revolutions of Latin America than Thomas ****ing Jefferson? REALLY?

Heaven forbid that we teach students what the government of the US REALLY is...

I wonder if they will say that Constitutional Republics were first advocated by Liberals. Doubt it.

Heaven forbid we actually teach some BASIC economic understanding...

I wonder if they will teach that U.S. foreign dollar declined 40% from 2002 to 2008. During, you know, a Republican administration.

Well, duhh...

What do you have against academia?
 

Boo Radley

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How are any of the points I highlighted an overreaction?

Start with the language:

to undermine

threatened

water down rationale for the separation of church and state.

unfairly skewed to the left


This is a political view and not really an accurate view. Language is, btw, how you measure these things. Not POV, or making a case, but with biased and over the top language.
 

ludahai

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Start with the language:

to undermine

threatened

water down rationale for the separation of church and state.

unfairly skewed to the left


This is a political view and not really an accurate view. Language is, btw, how you measure these things. Not POV, or making a case, but with biased and over the top language.

Actually, those words were the choice of the writer of the article ... perhaps evidence of ideological bias on the part of the writer?
 

Boo Radley

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Actually, those words were the choice of the writer of the article ... perhaps evidence of ideological bias on the part of the writer?

Perhaps, but you echoed them, right? You agreed, right?
 

ludahai

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Really? Why? Academics use B.C.E. and C.E. as opposed to B.C. and A.D. - Why do you have such a problem with academics?

History books are generally written by academics (except for the likes of pseudohistories like those present by Menzies). Nearly all of the history books I have in my personal library use B.C. and A.D.

Only this is subjective to whether or not you believe the U.N. is trying to undermine the sovereignty of the U.S. - Which it isn't.

What is wrong with giving the students the evidence and allow them to make their OWN assessment.


I did disagree with that point in a different forum.

Really? St. Thomas Aquinas and John Calvin were more influential in the foundation of the U.S. and the domino revolutions of Latin America than Thomas ****ing Jefferson? REALLY?

This is a point where I disagree. While the Christian heritage (though Calvin himself was a theocrat like the Puritans were and was an important influence for said Puritans), Jefferson was of course an important influence. But remember, Jefferson himself was influenced by both the thinking and philosophy of the French Enlightenment as well as the Christian heritage of the colonists.

I wonder if they will say that Constitutional Republics were first advocated by Liberals. Doubt it.

Liberals of the 1770s and liberals of the 2010s are hardly analogous.

I wonder if they will teach that U.S. foreign dollar declined 40% from 2002 to 2008. During, you know, a Republican administration.

I hope they do in economics class. I would if I taught the course (I am certified to teach the class, but have never taught it in high school). You seem to have this mistaken impression that I have some need to defend the economic policies of the previous president.

What do you have against academia?

I have a lot against "ivory tower" academia. Believe me, there is a huge difference between the ivory tower types of academics who have no clue what is happening in the real world and those who actually have a clue reharding the PRACTICAL applications and use of the research they do. This was VERY clear to me when I was a grad student and a primary reason I did NOT continue on to get my PhD.
 

ludahai

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Perhaps, but you echoed them, right? You agreed, right?

I agreed with the cited alterations to the curriculum. That does not imply agreement with the adjectives and adjective phrases chosen by the author of the article. I quoted them from the article to maintain some semblance of continuity in the quoted passage.
 

RyrineaHaruno

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For the love of all that is holy, the FOUNDING FATHERS weren't inspired by Christians notions. They were DEIST get that in too your notions.

And Here
Deism and the Founding Fathers: Separation of Church and State the Result of Enlightenment Ideals

In final edits leading up to the vote, conservatives rejected language to modernize the classification of historic periods to B.C.E. and C.E. from the traditional B.C. and A.D.

What does B.C.E, and C.E stand for anyways? :confused:




The standards will refer to the U.S. government as a "constitutional republic," rather than "democratic,"

It is actually a Constitution-based federal republic with strong democratic tradition soruce



and students will be required to study the decline in the value of the U.S. dollar, including the abandonment of the gold standard.
So this decline in the value of the U.S dollar when did this happen? Because Last I check the U.s dollar is still the same.

From this link it shows the different values you can get for a US dollar.
 

Boo Radley

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Before the Common Era (B.C.E.) and the Common Era (C.E.)
 

Singularity

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Who cares? On the chance that those kids go to college, some liberal professor will most certainly drill that information right out of 'em. Personally I think this whole issue is overhyped, anyway.
 

Boo Radley

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I agreed with the cited alterations to the curriculum. That does not imply agreement with the adjectives and adjective phrases chosen by the author of the article. I quoted them from the article to maintain some semblance of continuity in the quoted passage.

To agree with the changes, you almost have to agree with the cited adjectives and reasoning. I would like to see you offer another reading.
 

Boo Radley

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Who cares? On the chance that those kids go to college, some liberal professor will most certainly drill that information right out of 'em. Personally I think this whole issue is overhyped, anyway.

Well, I agree it is over hyped. I just wish any school board would make more sense than the Texas school board does much of the time.
 

ludahai

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For the love of all that is holy, the FOUNDING FATHERS weren't inspired by Christians notions. They were DEIST get that in too your notions.

They were influenced by both. BTW, notions of separation of Church and State FAR PRECEED the Enlightenment. The Catholic Church noted the difference between secular and religious authorities before AD 500 and the Anabaptists of the Protestant Reformation (predating the Enlightenment by about 150 years) also called for Separation of Church and State.

What does B.C.E, and C.E stand for anyways? :confused:

Before Common Era and Common Era

It is actually a Constitution-based federal republic with strong democratic tradition soruce

Though more "democratic" today than it was in 1789.

So this decline in the value of the U.S dollar when did this happen? Because Last I check the U.s dollar is still the same.

The value of the dollar is NOT the same, either internally in the United States or externally. It fluxuates over time. Right now, the US dollar is rising vis a vis the Euro largely because of the problems i nthe Eurozone economies right now, but it is pretty weak against many Asian currencies, including the Japanese Yen and the New Taiwan Dollar.
 

ludahai

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To agree with the changes, you almost have to agree with the cited adjectives and reasoning. I would like to see you offer another reading.

The reasoning perhaps, but the adjectives were chosen by the writer of the article, thereby inserting his own leanings in the reporting of the news.
 

TurtleDude

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Most people are. I wonder how many people are even familiar with the origins of those two terms?

BC-before computers?
AD=after digital?
 

Hatuey

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History books are generally written by academics (except for the likes of pseudohistories like those present by Menzies). Nearly all of the history books I have in my personal library use B.C. and A.D.

Really? What year are they from? I have the latest edition of 'Exploring History'. B.C.E. across the board.

What is wrong with giving the students the evidence and allow them to make their OWN assessment.

Only that is not what this is doing and you're being dishonest. They are starting with the assumption that the UN is actively trying to undermine US law and authority. They are starting off with bias. So how the **** could they possibly be giving students 'the evidence'? Did you read your own article? Here:

They also required that public school students in Texas evaluate efforts by global organizations such as the United Nations to undermine U.S. sovereignty.

They are telling kids 'The U.N. is trying to undermine U.S. sovereignty.' - Here's the cases [ not stated in books: we think] represent this.' That is NOT providing evidence. That is creating a slant in thought.

I did disagree with that point in a different forum.

This is a point where I disagree. While the Christian heritage (though Calvin himself was a theocrat like the Puritans were and was an important influence for said Puritans), Jefferson was of course an important influence. But remember, Jefferson himself was influenced by both the thinking and philosophy of the French Enlightenment as well as the Christian heritage of the colonists.

Really? You disagreed with it? Funny how you failed to mention that little tid-bit of information. Irrelevant of who you might think Jefferson was influenced by his own work has been described as having influenced others.

If they said 'Father Hidalgo of Mexico was influenced by the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas' fine. **** it. I'll even give you Bartolome De Las Casas. Both those guys are huge. In Latin America. But Jefferson being replaced by St. Thomas Aquinas in terms of influencing revolutions? Are you serious?

Liberals of the 1770s and liberals of the 2010s are hardly analogous.

They won't be calling them liberals. Which is the point I'm trying to get through to you.

I hope they do in economics class. I would if I taught the course (I am certified to teach the class, but have never taught it in high school). You seem to have this mistaken impression that I have some need to defend the economic policies of the previous president.

Only they won't. And you'd have to think we here are ****ing morons if we believe for one second that your hopes and dreams and whatever other aspiration it is you have for conservatives revising history books as they see fit are going to teach that the dollar dropped 40% during a period where 2 branches of government were controlled mostly by Republicans. You really would have to think that.

I have a lot against "ivory tower" academia. Believe me, there is a huge difference between the ivory tower types of academics who have no clue what is happening in the real world and those who actually have a clue reharding the PRACTICAL applications and use of the research they do. This was VERY clear to me when I was a grad student and a primary reason I did NOT continue on to get my PhD.

Oh I have no doubt that the guy who defends Pius XII for not openly condemning Nazi Germany would have a problem with 'ivory tower' academia. You really don't have to tell me twice.
 

Boo Radley

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The reasoning perhaps, but the adjectives were chosen by the writer of the article, thereby inserting his own leanings in the reporting of the news.

The reasoning goes with the adjectives. And the reasoning really is skewed and not accurate. Others have pointed out why.
 

Singularity

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Well, I agree it is over hyped. I just wish any school board would make more sense than the Texas school board does much of the time.

C'mon, aren't you hoping that those new social studies books have Jesus riding a dinosaur somewhere in there? How sweet would THAT be!?
 

Boo Radley

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C'mon, aren't you hoping that those new social studies books have Jesus riding a dinosaur somewhere in there? How sweet would THAT be!?

Well, . . yeah, . . . but not for any ideological reasons. I just like the idea. :thumbs:
 

RyrineaHaruno

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How was America founded on Christan beliefs when were are not even a theocracy?

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Christian-Nation-Political-Destroying/dp/0310267315]Amazon.com: The Myth of a Christian Nation: How the Quest for Political Power Is Destroying the Church (9780310267317): Gregory A. Boyd: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Separating-Church-State-WILLIAMS-RELIGIOUS/dp/0252066642/ref=pd_sim_b_13]Amazon.com: Separating Church and State: ROGER WILLIAMS AND RELIGIOUS LIBERTY (9780252066641): Timothy L. Hall: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/James-Madison-Religious-Liberty/dp/0879755377/ref=pd_sim_b_23]Amazon.com: James Madison on Religious Liberty (9780879755379):…[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Federalist-Papers-Alexander-Hamilton/dp/0554327295/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274498755&sr=1-2]Amazon.com: The Federalist Papers (9780554327297): Alexander Hamilton, John Jay: Books[/ame]

A little bit of reading is in store for you ludahai to actually get what the Founding fathers wanted you should really read the Federalist papers. :2wave::2wave:
 
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ludahai

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Really? What year are they from? I have the latest edition of 'Exploring History'. B.C.E. across the board.

Ohhh... one book compared to the more than one hundred books of history in my personal library .. only a very small number of them using the BC/BCE notation.

Only that is not what this is doing and you're being dishonest. They are starting with the assumption that the UN is actively trying to undermine US law and authority. They are starting off with bias. So how the **** could they possibly be giving students 'the evidence'? Did you read your own article? Here:

The teacher is the one who will ultimately teach the course. Again, if I were in the classroom, I would turn it into a student centered activity where they would research the issue with guidance (and my guidance would be neutral) to understand the issue and make a judgement for themselves. You know, there ARE some teachers out there who strive to teach critical thinking skills to our students...


They are telling kids 'The U.N. is trying to undermine U.S. sovereignty.' - Here's the cases [ not stated in books: we think] represent this.' That is NOT providing evidence. That is creating a slant in thought.

That is in the standards. That does not mean this is how it will be taught in the classroom. You obviously do not understand the latitude individual teachers have in their own classrooms.

Really? You disagreed with it? Funny how you failed to mention that little tid-bit of information. Irrelevant of who you might think Jefferson was influenced by his own work has been described as having influenced others.

It wasn't in the article.

If they said 'Father Hidalgo of Mexico was influenced by the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas' fine. **** it. I'll even give you Bartolome De Las Casas. Both those guys are huge. In Latin America. But Jefferson being replaced by St. Thomas Aquinas in terms of influencing revolutions? Are you serious?

For the second time, you know you disagree with this point. Again, were I in the classroom, I would ensure the students know the importance of Thomas Jefferson but also examine what influenced him and the world he lived in.

They won't be calling them liberals. Which is the point I'm trying to get through to you.

What will they be calling them? Revolutionaries?

Only they won't. And you'd have to think we here are ****ing morons if we believe for one second that your hopes and dreams and whatever other aspiration it is you have for conservatives revising history books as they see fit are going to teach that the dollar dropped 40% during a period where 2 branches of government were controlled mostly by Republicans. You really would have to think that.

Currencies rise and fall over time. The dollar is dropping against Asian currencies in the Obama watch as well. Wish to teach that?

Oh I have no doubt that the guy who defends Pius XII for not openly condemning Nazi Germany would have a problem with 'ivory tower' academia. You really don't have to tell me twice.

You mean as opposed to his opposing it openly and getting taken prisoner by the Italian authorities rather than working quietly and actually trying to get something constructive done? The problems with the likes of you is that you think the only way to accomplish something is to browbeat it into people. There are times when prudence is the proper course, as evidenced by Pope Pius XII. Also, that has nothing to do with this case -- so take your anti-Catholic ignorance and bigotry elsewhere...
 
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