What kind of bullshit is this? What did the training involve? Dirty bombs? Flight school? What the f_ck was the specific training involved at these sites?Originally posted by Stinger:
As I noted several weeks ago Stephen Hayes is doing a bang up job reporting the facts about Saddam and is continuing to expose the truth, he was more a threat than we had imagined (a conclusion also reached by Dr. Kay in is ISG interim report). More and more of the documents the US discovered are being declassified and made public including the latest to be reported in the next issue of the Weekly Standard and cited on NewsMax already
Friday, Jan. 6, 2006 11:07 p.m. EST New Saddam Documents Detail Terror Training
............... "The secret training took place primarily at three camps in Samarra, Ramadi, and Salman Pak," reports the Weekly Standard's Stephen Hayes, who adds that the operations began two years before the 9/11 attacks and were "directed by elite Iraqi military units.".............
this being confirmed by no less than eleven officials so far
...................... Hayes reports that the materials currently being reviewed for release include photographs, handwritten notes, typed documents, audiotapes and videotapes - plus information recovered from compact discs, floppy discs and computer hard drives.
Taken together, the material chronicles a massive operation that trained 2,000 terrorists to attack Western interests each year from 1999 to 2002............
No ties to terrorism?
No danger to anyone?
He was just a good old fellow who should have been left alone?
This was one of the primary reasons we removed him, will the left still defend their position after this disclosure?
Just noticed the entire article is available online at
John Entwistle was trained in Iraq. He and his 3 buddy's attacked America. What do you have to say to that?Originally posted by Robin:
'Left' or 'right' doesn't interest me.. whatever those terms mean.
Only the truth interests me, so I keep an open mind.
'Some 2,000 terrorists were trained at these Iraqi camps each year from 1999 to 2002, putting the total number at or above 8,000.'
I find it hard to believe supposedly 8,000 terrorists were trained in Iraq, yet none attacked the west. It sounds far fetched to me.
We know the terrosits come from Pakistan, Morroco, Suidi etc etc.... not Iraq.
Nice to see you speak "Oxen!"Originally posted by Robin:
'Who' are you talking about
Billo_Really said:Prove to me just what kind of training was going on there before you start shooting off your mouth.
Billo_Really said:What kind of bullshit is this? What did the training involve? Dirty bombs? Flight school? What the f_ck was the specific training involved at these sites?
This is a country that barely has running water and electricity. They were a threat to nobody. Including their neighbors. Prove to me just what kind of training was going on there before you start shooting off your mouth.
robin said:However I keep an open mind. I'd just like to more see concrete evidence.
cnredd said:I've always questioned that in my mind too, oldreliable...
The US is incredibly secular, but many here will say it really isn't because of the current administration and how it trys to force their brand of Christianity down everyone's throat...
And yet when someone says "Saddam was incredibly secular", those same people will sit back and accept it at face value...and in fact, use it as a DEFENSE of the radical fundamental accusations...
:shrug:
Billo_Really said:What kind of bullshit is this? What did the training involve? Dirty bombs? Flight school? What the f_ck was the specific training involved at these sites?
This is a country that barely has running water and electricity. They were a threat to nobody. Including their neighbors. Prove to me just what kind of training was going on there before you start shooting off your mouth.
Wrongo! I'm the most bi-partisan mother-f_cker on this website!Originally posted by aps:
Of course you think it's bullshit. Anything that does not support your thoughts or proves the administration right is bullshit to you.
Specifics. That's what I would like to see. Specifics. So far, its just, "They had terror camps". What was taught at these camps? And if you say, "Terror", this conversation is over.Originally posted by aps:
This is just the tip of the iceberg. There are thousands of documents being translated and analyzed.
What would you consider proof?
This is in the face of American aggression. Every country has a right to resist aggression on its soil. That is International Law. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not terrorism to defend your country from an act of aggression from another country.Originally posted by oldreliable67:
Er, what? Prove something to you before speaking about it? What form of communication do you then suggest, smoke signals?
The Stephen Hayes article mentions the "Popular Islamic Conferences" at the al Rashid Hotel that drew the most radical Islamists from throughout the region to Baghdad." I recall seeing a CNN report on that, reported IIRC by Peter Arnett, who was still in Saddam's good graces at the time, just after Gulf War I. I still recall being quite puzzled by Arnett's description of the conference as being sponsored by a 'secular' Saddam, yet everything that Arnett reported about the conference had to do with radical Islamic terrorism.
Hayes goes on to quote another attendee to that conference, Newsweek's Christopher Dickey. Hayes describes Dickey's impressions this way:
"Newsweek's Christopher Dickey, who covered one of those meetings in 1993, would later write: "Islamic radicals from all over the Middle East, Africa and Asia converged on Baghdad to show their solidarity with Iraq in the face of American aggression." One speaker praised "the mujahed Saddam Hussein, who is leading this nation against the nonbelievers." Another speaker said, "Everyone has a task to do, which is to go against the American state." Dickey continued:
Every time I hear diplomats and politicians, whether in Washington or the capitals of Europe, declare that Saddam Hussein is a "secular Baathist ideologue" who has nothing do with Islamists or with terrorist calls to jihad, I think of that afternoon and I wonder what they're talking about. If that was not a fledgling Qaeda itself at the Rashid convention, it sure was Saddam's version of it."
Yet, we are to believe that February 2002 Defense Intelligence Agency assessment of Iraq. The relevant passage reads: "Saddam's regime is intensely secular and is wary of Islamic revolutionary movements. Moreover, Baghdad is unlikely to provide assistance to a group it cannot control."
Steve Cambone can go f_ck himself! Release the documents, then we will continue this discussion.Originally posted by Stinger:
Tone down the rhetoric and speak civily and we may be able to have a discussion. What I posted says enough, the article is much more detailed. Try reading it.
Billo_Really said:This is in the face of American aggression. Every country has a right to resist aggression on its soil. That is International Law. There is nothing wrong with that. It is not terrorism to defend your country from an act of aggression from another country.
According to US field commanders, insurgency from foriegn fighters makes up only 10% of the resistance. So catch the clue, we are fighting Iraqis.Originally posted by M14 Shooter:
For a right of resistance to apply, such as our right to resist the Crown, there have to be certain, narrow conditions.
First and foremost, all non-violent avenues of civil redress must be abrogated. This is not the case in Iraq; there is an elected government with functioning courts and a representative, elected parliament. There is freedom of the press. There is a constitution approved by the people which guarantees these things.
Second, a right of resistance can only be claimed by the actual people of a nation. When critics of Bush think they can score points that way, they love to broadcast that a significant part of the "insurgency" is of foreign origin.
Third, the rebellion must be open, authorized by representatives of the people (even if they meet outside the offices of the government in charge, as was the case with the Continental Congress) . . . and must obey the accepted rules of warfare.
This sludge in Iraq meets none of these, and in fact seek to impose exactly the kind of "law" which would justify a right of rebellion.
Your arguement is weak and does not hold water.
Bullshit, we invaded in April 2002 under the cover of no-fly zone enforcement!Originally posted by oldreliable67:
Billo,
What the f**k are you talking about? Lets try to get on the same page here. Consider the following:
"Islamic radicals from all over the Middle East, Africa and Asia converged on Baghdad to show their solidarity with Iraq in the face of American aggression." One speaker praised "the mujahed Saddam Hussein, who is leading this nation against the nonbelievers." Another speaker said, "Everyone has a task to do, which is to go against the American state."
Remember, this was 1993, just after the coalition had kicked Iraq out of Kuwait. We had not invaded Iraq, in fact, we had permitted Saddam to remain in power (which, of course, many believe to have been a mistake). Given the point in time to which the discussion is referring, your responses are puzzling (among other things).
This thread is about apparent contradictions between those who assert that Saddam was totally secular and would never have countenanced a relationship with radical Islamists and the documented gathering of various radical Islamists groups for a little get-together in Baghdad under Saddam's aegis. Do you not see the contradiction?
What the hell are you talking about?Originally posted by oldreliable67:
Billo,
Had a good bit to drink last nite, did we? Still feeling the effects, are we? When you sober up, maybe we can continue this in a more rational manner.
Billo_Really said:According to US field commanders, insurgency from foriegn fighters makes up only 10% of the resistance. So catch the clue, we are fighting Iraqis.
Did we persue all "...non-violent avenues of civil redress..." before attacking?Originally posted by M14 Shooter:
OK...
And the OTHER points, as well as the REST of the second?
-all non-violent avenues of civil redress must be abrogated.
We already addressed this point.Originally posted by M14 Shooter:
- a right of resistance can only be claimed by the actual people of a nation.
The same right the CIA had to be in Chilli, El Salvador and Nicaragua.Originally posted by M14 Shooter:
What right do the non-Iraqi Islamofascists have to be there?
If 90% of the fighting is being done by Iraqis, that is the people.Originally posted by M14 Shooter:
-the rebellion must be open, authorized by representatives of the people
Accepted rules of warfare! Like Article 51 of the UN Charter?Originally posted by M14 Shooter:
-the rebellion must obey the accepted rules of warfare.
Billo_Really said:Steve Cambone can go f_ck himself! Release the documents, then we will continue this discussion.
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