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Terrorist found not guilty

Ikari

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I just think the level of what is or is not admissible is ridiculously biased in favor of the criminal. I am not argueing against checks and balances.
File that under "no ****". Of course it's biased in favor of the defendant. It's up to the State to prove guilt. The individual is assumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. The government is what should be restricted, not the People.
 

Harshaw

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tell that to the parent's of the kid killed by the drunk driver who was released because the calibration on the breathalyzer was 2 days overdue, or to the lady who was raped by the guy who was released because the cop forgot to put an "x" in block 17a on the arrest warrant.
Tell it to all these innocent people whom you say were wrongly convicted. :shrug:

Anecdotes don't make an argument. No one said anything was perfect. Not possible in the human world.


I just think the level of what is or is not admissible is ridiculously biased in favor of the criminal.
No, it's biased in favor of the government having to be on the straight and narrow before it locks someone away, which is how it should be.
 

Ikari

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Yet another embarrassing defeat for this clown in the WH.


j-mac
Is it really a "defeat"? I mean, if he was so clearly a terrorist, then the State should have had clear evidence to gain a conviction.
 

The Prof

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Ahmed Ghailani's acquittal on nearly all counts in embassy bombings case has big repercussions

Ahmed Ghailani was supposed to be the test case, the reason why political opposition to trying Guantanamo goons in civilian courts was just hot air.

But now, after "Foopie" Ghailani was acquitted on all but one count for his role in the 1998 East Africa embassy bombings by Al Qaeda, Team Obama's hope of trying Gitmo's worst in civilian courts has been all but dashed.
Mixed verdict for Ghailani renews debate over trying terror suspects

The Obama administration had hoped that a conviction on most, if not all, of the charges would help clear the way for federal prosecutions of other Guantanamo detainees - including Khalid Sheik Mohammed and four alleged co-conspirators accused of organizing the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

President Obama's strategy, however, has run into fierce, cross-party opposition in Congress and New York, where the administration once hoped to try Mohammed, in part because of concerns that it would be harder to win convictions in civilian court.

The failure to convict Ghailani, a native of Tanzania, on the most serious terrorism charges bolstered the arguments of those who say the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, should be kept open, both to host military commissions for some prisoners and to hold others indefinitely and without trial under the laws of war.
 

Ikari

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I am so sick and tired of the same crap said over and over again:

It's all Bush's fault!!!!.

And the idiot that is in charge now is not responsible for anything.
What a bunch of crap.
Are people's memories so short? How about during the vast majority of Bush's first term when it was All Clinton's Fault? You think the left has a monopoly on partisan crap? Like hell. Both sides are well versed in the stupidity of partisan rhetoric.
 

Coronado

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Is it really a "defeat"? I mean, if he was so clearly a terrorist, then the State should have had clear evidence to gain a conviction.
It's a defeat in the minds of partisan cheerleaders only. I rather doubt the defendant is doing backflips about the prospect of doing twenty to life in solitary.

Some of the idiotic partisan hacks on this board would start a thread gloating over Obama's gross incompetence if he had missed a spot shaving that morning. :doh
 

OscarB63

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Tell it to all these innocent people whom you say were wrongly convicted. :shrug:

Anecdotes don't make an argument. No one said anything was perfect. Not possible in the human world.




No, it's biased in favor of the government having to be on the straight and narrow before it locks someone away, which is how it should be.
no, it's biased in favor of the govt having to be perfect in every single case. some of the technicalities that let criminals walk have no bearing on the actual quality of the evidence.

It's like your teacher giving you an F on a test because you forgot to capitalize your name. Sorry johnny, but you didn't put a period at the end of sentence #5, you'll have to retake english in summer school.
 

Gill

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Are people's memories so short? How about during the vast majority of Bush's first term when it was All Clinton's Fault? You think the left has a monopoly on partisan crap? Like hell. Both sides are well versed in the stupidity of partisan rhetoric.
I don't recall Bush claiming that everything that happened was Clinton's fault like Obama is doing to him. Bush has a lot more class. Obama is no better than Carter.

If Holder had tried him in front of a military tribunal, the methods they used to find out who he bought explosives from would be moot.
 

Harshaw

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no, it's biased in favor of the govt having to be perfect in every single case.
That makes me quite happy. It should make any liberty-loving person happy.


some of the technicalities that let criminals walk have no bearing on the actual quality of the evidence.
Doesn't matter. Rule of law is more important than every single criminal being found guilty.


It's like your teacher giving you an F on a test because you forgot to capitalize your name. Sorry johnny, but you didn't put a period at the end of sentence #5, you'll have to retake english in summer school.
You can be glib, but someone's liberty is far, far more important than any English test. This comparison is silly.
 

liblady

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I don't recall Bush claiming that everything that happened was Clinton's fault like Obama is doing to him. Bush has a lot more class. Obama is no better than Carter.

If Holder had tried him in front of a military tribunal, the methods they used to find out who he bought explosives from would be moot.


As late as 2008, Bush was still blaming Clinton:

"…the senior administration official says the budgetary problems stem from what is believed to be inadequate defense, intelligence and homeland security resources that were handed down from Clinton."

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/07/28/…

Other examples:

"Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, in separate speeches Wednesday, both claimed the U.S. economy was already in recession when they were inaugurated in January 2001, implying the blame for the slowdown rested on President Clinton's shoulders."

http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/07/news/eco…

"President George W. Bush on Thursday blamed President Bill Clinton's administration for the loss of hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs. Bush warned against backing the Democratic ticket in November because of a "hidden Kerry tax plan."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni/3538…

""Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area.

Whopper of the week: George W. Bush. - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

9/11: "They looked at our response after the hostage crisis in Iran, the bombings of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the first World Trade Center attack, the killing of American soldiers in Somalia, the destruction of two U.S. embassies in Africa, and the attack on the USS Cole. They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy…"
 

OscarB63

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9/11: "They looked at our response after the hostage crisis in Iran, the bombings of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the first World Trade Center attack, the killing of American soldiers in Somalia, the destruction of two U.S. embassies in Africa, and the attack on the USS Cole. They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy…"
that's pretty damn accurate
 

j-mac

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Is it really a "defeat"? I mean, if he was so clearly a terrorist, then the State should have had clear evidence to gain a conviction.

Yes, it is a defeat, and a rather large one. I am sure you know full well the standards of evidence, and the pitfalls included in a civilian trial here in America, as opposed to a military tribunal where he should have been. Oh, and the defeat is recognized by the Obama circus as well, fore KSM will now stay in GITMO until he stands that MT. And GITMO will remain open.

I'd say after this last couple of weeks it is a severe uphill battle for Obama's administration to be seen as anything other than a complete incompetent failure.

Coronado said:
It's a defeat in the minds of partisan cheerleaders only. I rather doubt the defendant is doing backflips about the prospect of doing twenty to life in solitary.

Some of the idiotic partisan hacks on this board would start a thread gloating over Obama's gross incompetence if he had missed a spot shaving that morning.
There is a certain measure of that to be sure, I admit it. But come on man, this guy is a joke. Period. Certainly not the genius he was portrayed to be in the campaign.

Oh, and all you seem to complain about lately Coronado is how everyone is so partisan, but it is funny you only unleash that swipe when a conservative posts....Or at least that is how it seems. Maybe a question could be that if it annoys you so to respond to what you consider a 'partisan hack' thread, why you bother?

I think this speaks for itself.:2wave:


j-mac
 

Paschendale

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Obama is a *****, of course he'll agree with someone who calls this a failure. If the man had the testicular fortitude, he'd stand up and take credit for his victories. We caught the bad guy and convicted him, legally and honestly. This is a win.
 

j-mac

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As late as 2008, Bush was still blaming Clinton:

"…the senior administration official says the budgetary problems stem from what is believed to be inadequate defense, intelligence and homeland security resources that were handed down from Clinton."

Pensito Review » 2008 » July » 28

Other examples:

"Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, in separate speeches Wednesday, both claimed the U.S. economy was already in recession when they were inaugurated in January 2001, implying the blame for the slowdown rested on President Clinton's shoulders."

http://money.cnn.com/2002/08/07/news/eco…

"President George W. Bush on Thursday blamed President Bill Clinton's administration for the loss of hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs. Bush warned against backing the Democratic ticket in November because of a "hidden Kerry tax plan."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/omni/3538…

""Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area.

Whopper of the week: George W. Bush. - By Timothy Noah - Slate Magazine

9/11: "They looked at our response after the hostage crisis in Iran, the bombings of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, the first World Trade Center attack, the killing of American soldiers in Somalia, the destruction of two U.S. embassies in Africa, and the attack on the USS Cole. They concluded that free societies lacked the courage and character to defend themselves against a determined enemy…"
I see, so repubs are supposed to just sit back and let demo's shred them and their record with the lies they tell is that it? Part of what you cite is campaigning, and part of it is politics. Problem with demo's is that when a conservative says something they did that damaged the country chances they are correct in their claim, when demo's do it, it usually is based on pure hyperbole, and facetious claims that are thrown out there to either distract, or divert in some way.

j-mac
 

Albert Di Salvo

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Obama and Holder wanted to use this case to establish a legal precedent for the prosecution of Gitmo detainees in US civilian courts.

The legal precedent was not established. The DOJ legal team left the courtroom in absolute silence. This verdict was a major defeat for Holder, Obama and what's left of America.
 

roughdraft274

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I see, so repubs are supposed to just sit back and let demo's shred them and their record with the lies they tell is that it? Part of what you cite is campaigning, and part of it is politics. Problem with demo's is that when a conservative says something they did that damaged the country chances they are correct in their claim, when demo's do it, it usually is based on pure hyperbole, and facetious claims that are thrown out there to either distract, or divert in some way.

j-mac
Wow.......
 

Ikari

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Yeah wow. Truth hurts don't it.


j-mac
Maybe. Put some truth in your post instead of empty partisan rhetoric and we'll find out.
 

j-mac

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Maybe. Put some truth in your post instead of empty partisan rhetoric and we'll find out.
That's how I see it. But as usual you jump to the lib defense.....Look Ikari I don't have any particular beef with anyone in here, but I will say what I think and an opinion is neither true or false, it is what it is....Now I suppose you can insert your little insult here.


j-mac
 

Diogenes

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Look at what I'm arguing. He's arguing AGAINST inadmissibility. Under his construct, there would be no ruling and it would be admitted.
So am I. As it stands, ANY flaw in the investigation or the prosecution results in the criminal going free. IMO a better approach would be sanctions against police or prosecutor for errors or omissions, but I do not think society is well served by letting a criminal off the hook completely as is done with the present system.
 

Coronado

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There is a certain measure of that to be sure, I admit it. But come on man, this guy is a joke. Period. Certainly not the genius he was portrayed to be in the campaign.
If you think I'm defending him, you are sorely mistaken. There are a myriad of reasons to legitimately criticize him. This one, however, is petty.
Oh, and all you seem to complain about lately Coronado is how everyone is so partisan, but it is funny you only unleash that swipe when a conservative posts....Or at least that is how it seems.
I can understand why it would seem that way to you. Liberal sycophants label me a conservative, and conservative sycophants label me a liberal. In any event, my posting history is no secret. If you cared to back that bull**** up, you have more than enough evidence to do so. However, you and I both know you don't have the balls to do it. You'll just babble out some sort of weak ad hominem you think is witty and slink away like you do from anyone who challenges your paradigm.

By the way, if you want to go after me, there is a place for that, and this isn't it.
Maybe a question could be that if it annoys you so to respond to what you consider a 'partisan hack' thread, why you bother?
Strictly for my own entertainment.
I think this speaks for itself.:2wave:
I'm sure you do. :roll:
 

Harshaw

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So am I. As it stands, ANY flaw in the investigation or the prosecution results in the criminal going free. IMO a better approach would be sanctions against police or prosecutor for errors or omissions, but I do not think society is well served by letting a criminal off the hook completely as is done with the present system.
Dude. Read the exchange. I was describing what could happen if there were no exclusionary rule and everything was admissible. You quoted me and said "but the judge could rule it inadmissible."
 
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