Terrorist Attack at U.S. university:

[Kelzie]

Well what do you expect from the home town of Ward Churchill,

You go to Boulder? I went there once with my cousin he went to school there we road tripped it all the way up from Jacksonville, it's like the entire population is college kids there.

Yeah I know, it's nuts. I feel kind of bad for the locals. CU's got like 30,000 students.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Yeah I know, it's nuts. I feel kind of bad for the locals. CU's got like 30,000 students.

Did you live in Colorado, that school is expensive as fuc/k to out of staters right?

 

[Kelzie]

Did you live in Colorado, that school is expensive as fuc/k to out of staters right?

Yeah, we screw all the rich out of staters who want to snowboard. :lol: Evidently there's a lot of them. They pay three times the actual cost of tuition.

My mom lives here, so I was able to claim residency.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Yeah, we screw all the rich out of staters who want to snowboard. :lol: Evidently there's a lot of them. They pay three times the actual cost of tuition.

My mom lives here, so I was able to claim residency.

Ya I know like I said my cousin went there I wanted to go too, but the tuition was ridiculous, he's from Fl. too but his father is a lawyer.

 

[Kelzie]

Ya I know like I said my cousin went there I wanted to go too, but the tuition was ridiculous, he's from Fl. too but his father is a lawyer.

It is a really pretty school. Little too big for me though. I'm getting tired of having classes with 450 other students.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

It is a really pretty school. Little too big for me though. I'm getting tired of having classes with 450 other students.

Ya I went there during the summer but I could imagine what it would be like in the winter like a ski resort or something. I was born in Co. Springs.

 

[Kelzie]

Ya I went there during the summer but I could imagine what it would be like in the winter like a ski resort or something. I was born in Co. Springs.

I'm sorry. My best friend teaches middle school there. The kids are little hellions.

 

[teacher]

He was trying to strike terror in the hearts of Americans by trying to knock people down??? You guys must be scared really easily then.

Why didn't he just get a gun in one of the many gun outlets in America and shoot people???

Now the Washington Sniper, there was a terrorist.

Friggin Garza. Do you ever post anything beside anti-American swill?

 

[GarzaUK]

Friggin Garza. Do you ever post anything beside anti-American swill?

Yeah apparantly I post anti-semitic swill as well. lol lol Anyway I like Americans, I just don't like some of your politics.

 

[easyt65]

i would think that a person of color sending hate mail/threats to a person of a different color would be considered a 'race crime' or the newly created 'Hate crime'?! It isn't really terrorism!

SIDE BAR ALERT:
By the way, I personally HATE the idea of differentiating a crime from another simply by calling it a 'Hate Crime' just to tack on more time.

What crime of violence of one person assaulting another is NOT a hate crime? A person doesn't attack someone else because they like them! If I am a white guy and get attacked by a blue guy, and the blue guy gets 6 months and THEN I hear about a white guy getting 5 years for attacking a blue guy because it was called a 'hate' crime, I'm gonna be ticked! Doesn't this further racism, increasing the void, instead of working to eliminate racism? Assault is assault, murder is murder - how about we just punish people equally for the same crime and actually deliver the punishment people deserve based on the crime and not on skin color!?

 

[Gardener]

Sometimes I wonder if the left has a death wish -- a wish to make the left completely irrevelent. If this post is any indication, I would say that it is, for the degree of apologia some people show here has me thinking they have painted themself into a corner. The casual dismissal of this man's act works on the level of defense, since it is downplayed, ignored, excused and rationalized, and all the while without so much as one word to indicate there is even anything wrong with the man's attempted action, itself. Have people really become so knee jerk in their reactions that the apologia for terrorism is a given?

If leftists think they are advancing the notions of liberality by acting as apologists for that whch stands in complete diametrical opposition to liberal values, they have another thing coming. I don't understand all this casual dismissal, myself, and especially from the standpoint of credibility. The left will continue to struggle for credibility as long as those who represent the left shrug off the actions of terrorists, and refuse to state something so simple as a natural revulsion for Islamists employment of mass murder as a political tool.

I don't go for any of this manichaen "you're either with us or against us" stuff, but it does seem that many have taken the bait and are saying "well, I'm against you, then". There are certinly choices between supporting Bush and supporting Islamic terrorism, but when people dig in their heels and refuse to criticize any Islamist action, they give every indication of having arrived at a viewpoint where there really are just two choices.

A Jihadist's attempting to murder countless people certainly sounds like terrorism to me. I want to be very clear that deplore this. I deplore the ultra right Islamist viewpoint. There is nothing compatable between such a viewpoint and liberal values and that is why I deplore it.

 

[MSgt]

America's newest body of immigrants are the Muslims. As so many religious or ethnic groups have done before them, America’s Muslim immigrants will need to jettison some of the behaviors brought along in their baggage, especially as regards the regulation of women. Many of our Muslim citizens have long-since integrated into American society—some have been fully Americanized for generations—while some new arrivals are still in the process of adapting. All of this is the normal stuff of the immigrant’s experience, with its shocks, discords, and ultimate success. What matters not only to us but to the world is that the long-overdue, liberal reformation of Islam is likeliest to happen here, in the United States.

The reason that this guy is an isolated incident is because our saving grace today is that successful economies and flowering societies spawn fewer zealots. However, America is only as safe as its citizens. If our Muslim population starts to practice what Muslims in other countries are doing (refusing to assimilate with their host nation) we may see trouble. Until 9/11, terrorism was a normal occurrence in other lands, not ours. Anything before was mere single criminal acts and not from a grand organized "movement." (This is why Europeans can't understand our anger.) Immigrants that come to America are coming because they wish to leave their oppressions and abuses behind. They wish to be Americans. If our fellow Americans begin to place their Islamic beliefs too far ahead of their patriotism, we will see a more routine environment of terror as the rest of the world sees it.

Our military, government and police force keeps America safe from outside violence. However, our ultimate security comes from our own citizens and their natural course of assimilations.

 

[Kelzie]

i would think that a person of color sending hate mail/threats to a person of a different color would be considered a 'race crime' or the newly created 'Hate crime'?! It isn't really terrorism!

SIDE BAR ALERT:
By the way, I personally HATE the idea of differentiating a crime from another simply by calling it a 'Hate Crime' just to tack on more time.

What crime of violence of one person assaulting another is NOT a hate crime? A person doesn't attack someone else because they like them! If I am a white guy and get attacked by a blue guy, and the blue guy gets 6 months and THEN I hear about a white guy getting 5 years for attacking a blue guy because it was called a 'hate' crime, I'm gonna be ticked! Doesn't this further racism, increasing the void, instead of working to eliminate racism? Assault is assault, murder is murder - how about we just punish people equally for the same crime and actually deliver the punishment people deserve based on the crime and not on skin color!?

Actually, it was almost exactly the definition. It was using terror to change a population's habit. Death threats to influence black kids to not go to school. Unless you use a different definition of terrorism than the rest of us?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Actually, it was almost exactly the definition. It was using terror to change a population's habit. Death threats to influence black kids to not go to school. Unless you use a different definition of terrorism than the rest of us?

Side note there is no such charge as a hate crime, the Supreme Court ruled that it is unconstitutional, however, there are allowments for sentence increasement due to the hateful nature of the crime which the Supreme Court upheld.

RAV vs. St. Paul 1992 - It’s a crime dealing with hate speech RAV burned a cross on a lawn of the only black family in a white neighborhood and RAV was convicted under that ordnance. The lower court dismissed it but the Minnesota higher court over ruled that decision and RAV took it to the Supreme Court which overturned the law unanimously. But their reasons are different. The majority says that the city of St. Paul is discriminating on account of content and Scalia says that the law is to narrow, the minority says that the law is to broad because it doesn’t just capture hate speech but also speech that is protected so they don’t have a problem with outlawing hate speech but feel that it needs to be drawn very narrowly so as not to capture protected speech.

Virginia vs. Black - Virginia specifically outlawed any kind of cross burning. O’Conner argued that cross burning isn’t just saying that we don’t like black people it is a form of terrorism due to its specific history. So it’s not speech it’s specific terrorist intimidation, the dissenting opinion argues that the history of the cross burning is irrelevant Seuter, Kennedy, and Ginsberg.

WI vs. Mitchell 1993 - Wisconsin had a sentencing enhancement if something is a crime is done out of hate. Mitchell attacked a white kid for being white and his sentenced was doubled because it was a crime done out of racial hatred. The court upholds the sentence enhancement unanimously. Rehnquist argues that motive is considered in sentencing all of the time. Mitchell argued that this would have a chilling effect because people would be less likely to join hate groups and express them because it would come back and hurt them if they are later charged in a crime.

 

[easyt65]

Actually, it was almost exactly the definition. It was using terror to change a population's habit. Death threats to influence black kids to not go to school. Unless you use a different definition of terrorism than the rest of us?

Segregation has already happened - death threats down in Alabama and Mississippi when mixing the races in school, yeah, but not now - not really! Most attacks or threats against others of color today aren't really aimed at achieving a goal, like preventing a kid from going to school, unless you count eliminating that person of color from exisitence. It is done out of the motivation of HATE, thus why it is called a 'HATE' crime!

If you count every time a white guy calls a black the 'N' word or two guys threaten to beat each other up because they don't like each other 'terrorism', almost every attack could be called that.

Heck, THIS kid straps on a car instead of a suicide belt, runs over college kids in an attempt to kill as many as possible, says he regrets not killing more and all for 'muslim injustice' and HE is NOT counted as a terrorist! (Which i believe is BS!)

 

[Kelzie]

Segregation has already happened - death threats down in Alabama and Mississippi when mixing the races in school, yeah, but not now - not really! Most attacks or threats against others of color today aren't really aimed at achieving a goal, like preventing a kid from going to school, unless you count eliminating that person of color from exisitence. It is done out of the motivation of HATE, thus why it is called a 'HATE' crime!

If you count every time a white guy calls a black the 'N' word or two guys threaten to beat each other up because they don't like each other 'terrorism', almost every attack could be called that.

Heck, THIS kid straps on a car instead of a suicide belt, runs over college kids in an attempt to kill as many as possible, says he regrets not killing more and all for 'muslim injustice' and HE is NOT counted as a terrorist! (Which i believe is BS!)

Huh. Well this one had a goal. So it would be TERRORISM not a HATE crime.

 

[easyt65]

Huh. Well this one had a goal. So it would be TERRORISM not a HATE crime.

So the incident you are talking about was prosecuted as an act of 'terrorism'?

 

[Kelzie]

So the incident you are talking about was prosecuted as an act of 'terrorism'?

See above and my bitch about a crunchy-granola-Boulder jury.

 

[easyt65]

Mmm...actually CU Boulder had an episode last semester with a white guy sending death threats to blacks on the campus telling them to get out. Bet you didn't hear about that. Seeing as he had a political purpose, it could even be classified as terrorism.

Yeah he only got convicted of assault though.

Which goes back to my point that whites threatening/attacking blacks in the U.S. or vice versa is not 'terrorism'. It may be your opinion that it should be classified as such. while i respect your opinion, I disagree. I believe if anything, it is racism and a crime of 'hatred'. However....I think, as I have said, that labeling one crime as a 'hate crime' and another not based on the color of the attackers' and victims' skin in each case is bogus! Crime is crime: Assault is assault. Murder is murder! I applaud Colorado for convicting the guy on assault for attacking another american instead of playing the racial game!

This attack is completely different from the case of the kid in NC, though! As I said, the govt is making a mistake by not classifying his attack as 'terrorism' -- if he had voiced his desire to kill Americans for Muslim extremist vengeance/ideas as he has done and then used a suicide belt instead of a car, we would never have the need for this discussion!

 

[Kelzie]

Which goes back to my point that whites threatening/attacking blacks in the U.S. or vice versa is not 'terrorism'. It may be your opinion that it should be classified as such. while i respect your opinion, I disagree. I believe if anything, it is racism and a crime of 'hatred'. However....I think, as I have said, that labeling one crime as a 'hate crime' and another not based on the color of the attackers' and victims' skin in each case is bogus! Crime is crime: Assault is assault. Murder is murder! I applaud Colorado for convicting the guy on assault for attacking another american instead of playing the racial game!

This attack is completely different from the case of the kid in NC, though! As I said, the govt is making a mistake by not classifying his attack as 'terrorism' -- if he had voiced his desire to kill Americans for Muslim extremist vengeance/ideas as he has done and then used a suicide belt instead of a car, we would never have the need for this discussion!

Okay. I'll be sure to tell you the same thing when this Islamic kid gets convicted of assault. :roll: Their conviction doesn't matter. Their crimes were the same.

 

[easyt65]

Okay. I'll be sure to tell you the same thing when this Islamic kid gets convicted of assault. :roll: Their conviction doesn't matter. Their crimes were the same.

Exactly, as my Uncle always used to say;

If IFs and BUTs were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas!

 

[Kelzie]

Exactly, as my Uncle always used to say;

If IFs and BUTs were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas!

Say what? I didn't use "if" or "but" once in that post. And your uncle must have had some crappy Christmas's. :lol:

 

[easyt65]

Say what? I didn't use "if" or "but" once in that post. And your uncle must have had some crappy Christmas's. :lol:

Translation:

Yeah, he was charged with assault, but IF the DAs would have seen it another way and charged him with......

he was onlycharged with assault, BUT what he really did was......

Those 2 words make huge differences.......thus were they candy and nuts, light, and presents, 'everyday would be Christmas!

 

[Kelzie]

Translation:

Yeah, he was charged with assault, but IF the DAs would have seen it another way and charged him with......

he was onlycharged with assault, BUT what he really did was......

Those 2 words make huge differences.......thus were they candy and nuts, light, and presents, 'everyday would be Christmas!

Uh huh. So OBL is a terrorist but IF you see it another way...whatever. I don't buy it. We don't have a definition of terrorism so you can "if" and "but" your way out of it.

 

[MSgt]

Exactly, as my Uncle always used to say;

If IFs and BUTs were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas!

You said "butts" and "nuts" in the same sentence. How pornographic.



P.S. Our country needs to be careful with throwing the word "terrorist" around. There is a very real world out there where we are battling terrorists on many different fronts and on many different levels. By labeling a hate crime or an act of violence through anger as a terrorist act, we belittle the meaning. This kid was clearly acting out of rage and not with some deep set agenda. If anything, he could be labeled as a "Practical" terrorist - in the same category as McVeigh who also was just seeking some sort of insignificant revenge.