• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Terri Schiavo's Bill

Did Congress act appropriately in regards to the Schiavo matter?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • No

    Votes: 12 80.0%

  • Total voters
    15

ShamMol

Only Way Round is Through
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
1,988
Reaction score
10
Location
Pasadena, California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I don't think so, this was clearly a state issue and the federal government shouldn't have stepped in to try and affect the situation. On the flip side, they didn't dictate how the court should rule, so point goes to them for that...but still a state issue..
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,894
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
ShamMol said:
I don't think so, this was clearly a state issue and the federal government shouldn't have stepped in to try and affect the situation. On the flip side, they didn't dictate how the court should rule, so point goes to them for that...but still a state issue..
Agreed. It shouldn't have been an option on the table. Things like this never end well, and even though people can debate until they're blue in the face as to her state and the moral implications of taking her off the feeding tube, it shouldn't be something that requires the action of Congress to resolve.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I think it was more of a symbolic gesture to make their constituents happy. I don't believe they really thought their action would have any impact on the court. We might see future legislation resulting from this case, but it would have be on a broader scale.
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,981
Reaction score
6,084
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I agree with all the above posters. Congress should not have been involved.
This was a state matter.
 

Pacridge

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
9
Location
Pacific Northwest US
I'm not even sure I see it as a State matter. I see it as a family matter. Though I suppose when the family disagreed on how to handle the situation, it did then become a court matter and then a State matter. But I never understood how it became a federal matter. I personally would much rather have my wife speak for me then my parents.
 

ShamMol

Only Way Round is Through
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
1,988
Reaction score
10
Location
Pasadena, California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Squawker said:
I think it was more of a symbolic gesture to make their constituents happy. I don't believe they really thought their action would have any impact on the court. We might see future legislation resulting from this case, but it would have be on a broader scale.
Then why did 7/10 Americans say that Congress should have sat this bill out.
About two-thirds in an ABC News poll said the political leaders who are trying to keep Schiavo alive are more concerned with using her case for political advantage than with her or the principles involved in keeping her alive. Some Republicans have suggested keeping Schiavo alive would be politically popular with their conservative base.

Almost that many in a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll, nearly six in 10, said they think the feeding tube should be removed and felt they would want to remove it for a child or spouse in the same condition.

(The ABC News poll of 501 adults was taken Sunday night and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points. The CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll of 909 adults was taken Friday through Sunday and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.)
 

pwo

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
205
Reaction score
1
Location
Illinois
I stand alone and say yes, they did the right thing.

Ether way, it is sad. I think congress knew that nothing could be done, but they went out on a limb. I comend congress for acting with their heart for once. I don't, however, blame the courts for the way they acted. Legally, nothing could be done to save her. But, I smell a rat, I don't know if her husband is honest. I would encourage all here to tell their loved ones, their wishes if a tragic event occurs in their lives.
 

Pacridge

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
9
Location
Pacific Northwest US
pwo said:
I stand alone and say yes, they did the right thing.

Ether way, it is sad. I think congress knew that nothing could be done, but they went out on a limb. I comend congress for acting with their heart for once. I don't, however, blame the courts for the way they acted. Legally, nothing could be done to save her. But, I smell a rat, I don't know if her husband is honest. I would encourage all here to tell their loved ones, their wishes if a tragic event occurs in their lives.
I disagree with you. I think congress saw this as a chance to jump on something politically. I don't think they gave a rats a*s about her or her family.

And I saw two of Terri's friend's on a Sunday morning news show (?) they both said they heard her say, at separate times, that she didn't want to be kept alive "by machines" if it came to that. Their testimony, in part, is why Terri's parents have never won a courts decision in regards to this case.
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
You don't stand alone pwo. I think congress did the right thing too.
Death row inmates have rights to appeal to Federal courts and even up to the Supreme Court. This bill gave the family the opportunity to have the Federal courts review all the evidence again. The bill did not guarantee anything.

If this is a "state issue" stop appeals to the Supreme Court the night someone is to get executed in Texas.

I like what Bill Kristol had to say - The Supreme Court decided 17 year old mass murderers should get life, they decided Terri should get death (by refusing case).
 

ShamMol

Only Way Round is Through
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
1,988
Reaction score
10
Location
Pasadena, California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Batman said:
You don't stand alone pwo. I think congress did the right thing too.
Death row inmates have rights to appeal to Federal courts and even up to the Supreme Court. This bill gave the family the opportunity to have the Federal courts review all the evidence again. The bill did not guarantee anything.

If this is a "state issue" stop appeals to the Supreme Court the night someone is to get executed in Texas.

I like what Bill Kristol had to say - The Supreme Court decided 17 year old mass murderers should get life, they decided Terri should get death (by refusing case).
They didn't decide that she would die. The realized that the lower courts decided the issue correctly. The reason that they decided that the murders who are underage should not be executed is because after it is appealed all the way to the states' supreme courts it then can go to the supreme court of the us. in terri's case, it was, through that exact process. states rights were preserved until congress intervened...
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
ShamMol said:
The reason that they decided that the murders who are underage should not be executed is because after it is appealed all the way to the states' supreme courts it then can go to the supreme court of the us.
I hope you're not saying THE reason why the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that murderers under the age of 18 should not get the death penalty IS because advocates had the right to appeal to the Supreme Court. :confused:

The 5-4 decision said that it violates "the evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society" while it acknowledged "the overwhelming weight of international opinion against the juvenile death penalty" which international opinion has nothing to do, (or should not)
with state laws.

So in this case the courts of the state of Missouri did not rule properly (perhaps because they did not take into account international opinion?) - then the U.S.S.C. applied their ruling to the other 18 states that had juvenile death penalty laws. Interesting.
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,894
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
The juvenile death penalty case is ridiculous.

It's not saying that people under 18 should not be killed because that is inhumane, it is saying that crimes committed while under 18, regardless of how old the person is now, cannot be punished that way because people under 18 are not developed enough to be held responsible for their actions.

Yet, in many states, these "undeveloped juveniles" are deemed responsible enough to decide whether or not they should abort their child...
 

Batman

Active member
Joined
Feb 13, 2005
Messages
407
Reaction score
7
Location
Fulton, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
RightatNYU said:
The juvenile death penalty case is ridiculous.

It's not saying that people under 18 should not be killed because that is inhumane, it is saying that crimes committed while under 18, regardless of how old the person is now, cannot be punished that way because people under 18 are not developed enough to be held responsible for their actions.

Yet, in many states, these "undeveloped juveniles" are deemed responsible enough to decide whether or not they should abort their child...
Hey man! Good thing the rep system got turned off - someone might have given you some "bad rep" for that.

But I'm here to publicly say "This post is good and has excellent points" RightatNYU.

(See how easy it is.)
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,894
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Batman said:
Hey man! Good thing the rep system got turned off - someone might have given you some "bad rep" for that.

But I'm here to publicly say "This post is good and has excellent points" RightatNYU.

(See how easy it is.)
Thanks a lot.

Yea, it's a common trait to the left.

They make a point we don't agree with, we argue.
We make a point they don't agree with, they call us fascists, blame everything on Bush, and give out bad rep.
 

mixedmedia

iniquitably employed
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
373
Location
Naples, FL
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
Pacridge said:
I'm not even sure I see it as a State matter. I see it as a family matter. Though I suppose when the family disagreed on how to handle the situation, it did then become a court matter and then a State matter. But I never understood how it became a federal matter. I personally would much rather have my wife speak for me then my parents.
Yes, this is a family matter. This is the story of a man and his wife and it is played out everyday somewhere in America, only protestors and the media are not usually involved - making a circus out of a very personal and painful situation. It's kind of shameful how this story has been exploited. I would think the attention is mortifying for the families regardless of which side they are on.
Being Ms. Schiavo's husband, he is her guardian and I don't believe it was anyone else's decision to make, including her parents. Apparently those who are empowered to distribute justice agree. Sad as the whole situation may be, I think justice has been done.
 

Pacridge

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 14, 2004
Messages
3,918
Reaction score
9
Location
Pacific Northwest US
Squawker said:
Sorry to interrupt you two, but the most disgusting thing I saw concerning this case was when the protesters brought retarded people in to be exposed to the public. There was one shot of a woman who looked terrified, and started to suck her thumb. They didn't know why they were there or what was going on. That was just cruel, IMO.
I couldn't agree with you more. And shame on the press for putting that crap on the air. Giving these morons a stage is exactly why they're out there doing what there doing. Take away their audience and they'd go home. Or possibly go do something useful like care for someone in need. But carting out a bunch of terrified disabled folks in an attempt to grab some shock press was just sick. Made me wonder if Howard Stern wasn't going to come out and fart on everyone.
 

Strangelove

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2005
Messages
74
Reaction score
1
Location
simi valley
Pacridge said:
Do you think Congress acted appropriately when it involved itself in the Terri Schiavo issue?
No I do not.

I also believe that she is being killed, only one small step away from being murdered.

However, her parents had over 20 times in court to have their sad case heard. Unfortunately, they lost.

Everybody should take a long, hard look as this innocent woman is given less dignity (liberals claim this death is dignified)...than the family cat being put down at the vet's office.
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,981
Reaction score
6,084
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I seriously do not know what to believe. 20 times in court - that should say something in and of itself. Right? 5 times to the supreme court.

liberals claim this death is dignified

While I am not a liberal (at least I hope), this isssue is not black/white - liberal/conservative. There is nothing dignified about this issue.

There are many of us conservatives that feel law must prevail.

On the other hand, there are relatives that say that Terri is conherent and acknowledges folks that walk into the room.

Then again, there are folks that think that her condition is not quality of life and regardless she made it known to her husband previously.

Also, there are folks that think 15 years ago the tube should have been removed, now she may have a different opinion inside there somewhere having come to accept her condition somehow - making BOTH the husband and the parents right in thier thinking.

Either way, Congress should not be involved.
That is about the only thing I am sure of about this case.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
This became a bit too personal, so I moved some of the posts to the Basement. Keep it civil please. Posters who enter the Basement should do so at their own risk. Do not complain if you are offended. ;) The wine is for Moderators and Administrators only so keep ya mitts off it. Cheese is available, however you must raid the mouse traps. :D
 

ShamMol

Only Way Round is Through
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
1,988
Reaction score
10
Location
Pasadena, California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Squawker said:
This became a bit too personal, so I moved some of the posts to the Basement. Keep it civil please. Posters who enter the Basement should do so at their own risk. Do not complain if you are offended. ;) The wine is for Moderators and Administrators only so keep ya mitts off it. Cheese is available, however you must raid the mouse traps. :D
PERSONAL? He called me a pedofile for disagreeing with him! That is ridiculous, ban me if i am not allowed to post what HE SAID ANYMORE

batman said:
Third, "you have my full...and you know"
I know what you are and what you want. The answer is no. Stay off my website and never make remarks directed to my 14 year old son like that again.

No wonder why someone has to start a thread to tell you what you have to j*ck off to
Now, that ain't personal mr. mod, that is f-ing blantantly wrong. How dare you call what he said personal!
 

Hoot

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
1,686
Reaction score
18
Location
State of Confusion
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I think the right wing should be ashamed for the way they've treated Michael Schiavo. He has faced an organized campaign of hate.

For 7 years after Terri's collapse, he did everything he could to help her...at one point Michael and the Schindlers lived together.

Michael helped Terri, as all manner of therapies were tried, and Michael went to the trouble to try to keep up Terri's appearance...spraying her with perfume, and making sure she was wearing matching tops and bottoms.

Michael took Terri to California where a Dr put platinum electrodes into Terri's brain as part of an experimental procedure, that of course, failed.

Michael had audio tapes made of all of Terri's relatives and played these for Terri with a Walkman.

At one point, the administration of the hospice Terri was at, filed a restraning order against Michael because he was so demanding.

Finally, after 7 years, Michael tried to move on with his life.

Wouldn't any spouse that truely loves you want that?

I believe Michael is doing what he knows Terri would wish for.

In a 2000 trial, Mrs. Schindler stated she would not remove Terri's feeding tube even if she knew that was Terri's wish.

Who's really being selfish?

The right wing and these religious wackos should be ashamed.

On a final note...I keep hearing and reading comments along the lines of..."You'd go to jail for treating an animal like that!"

Well...if you had a dog...that couldn't drink water, or feed itself...or get up and go outside to do it's business, and did not respond to outside stimulus, 99.9% of dog owners would mercifully put that dog to "sleep."

/
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well...if you had a dog...that couldn't drink water, or feed itself...or get up and go outside to do it's business, and did not respond to outside stimulus, 99.9% of dog owners would mercifully put that dog to "sleep."
We can’t argue with that or what you said Hoot. The problem is the parents have presented a different view that some people believe. Some of the people protesting are doing so in good faith because they believe in the sanctity of life. The right wing isn’t acting any different than the left wing when they protest.
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,981
Reaction score
6,084
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Squawker said:
The right wing isn’t acting any different than the left wing when they protest.
Well said. Get a bunch of people together on a single idea and craziness insues. Add a camera and some news reporters and insanity prevails every time.

Hoot, not sure if we have agree'd before. If not put this on the calendar. :D
Excellent post.
 

pwo

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
205
Reaction score
1
Location
Illinois
What I am most concerned about is, does Terri know what is going on? It looks like she was responding to her parents on the videotape, and I heard that a friend said something to her and Terri moved her arms into the air. If she is able to think and is somewhat concious then she should absolutly not be killed. If you disagree think about it this way:

What about quadrapelidics? They can't move or feed themselves. But they understand what is going on. So, we should help them not starve them. Terri is not a dog, don't put her to sleep.

Parcridge,
You are always so pessimistic about politicians. I believe that the congress took the vote because they don't like what is happening. About half of the democrats in congress agreed also. Rev. Jesse Jackson even took up the cause. Was it a abuse of power? maybe. But if you are moved by something, and in the position to do something about it, then who wouldn't?
 
Top Bottom