Tennessee woman awarded Silver Star

[Glanecia]

Girlfriend were you born the natural way or did Mommy Washington manufacture you out of sugar candy and molasses?

That is too funny! -Rather creative too. "Good on you" as they say in the UK.

*thinks* I suppose that means I'm sweet n stuff. Right on. :lol:

Yeah, I was born in laboratory! Uncle Sam created me to take ya'll down! Muhahaha!

 

[Stinger]

That's sweet..

No it's inspiring and worthy of admiration not condesencion.

Other's get life for participating in murder.

Don't you believe people who commit murder should be punished? Do you attempt to make the moral equivilance between murderers and our military?

And she can always sell it when she leaves the military and gets thrown on the unemployment scrapheap of US capitalism.

What country has a lower unemployment rate?

And after Tennessee, Iraq must have given her a taste of sophistication.

So you think unsulting the great state of Tennessee helps to make your case? I think you owe a lot of people an appology.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

No, I have not read Brave New World. I'd like to hear more about it.

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


Children learn about the symbolism, its historical evolution and most importantly -they learn that they have the right to refuse the pledge due to religious beliefs.


My Point? This is hardly indoctrination.

So what happens to anybody brave enough to refuse the pledge just because they don't want to say it?

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Some Lesson Plans: http://www.educationworld.com/search/search.jhtml?pageNum=1&queryText=pledge%20of%20allegiance&queryMode=0

I followed that link. It is so scary. You really must read Brave New World - it's by Aldous Huxley.

 

[akyron]

My point is that your melting pot doesn't melt that easily in my view
Everyone has problems, but I'm a white woman with an African guy who only ever had problems about it when visiting the USA. I have US friends who tell me, and I've seen it for myself, that they live in white neighbourhoods where people call the police if they see a black guy. I've been told not to go to certain neighbourhoods in the US because "over there's for the blacks and over there it's hispanic." I've never come across such segregation in Europe and I believe our cities are more mixed. That's my point. Now of course somebody's going to come out and say in their US city everybody lives in rainbow harmony, but I saw more race awareness and direct racism in the US than I've ever seen anywhere..

You realize how big the US is right? You will come across all types. If everyone agreed you would be bored and this forum would be empty.

We see things differently. Had they not been there in the first place they wouldn't have been targets. I don't deny their courage, but I do believe they're in Iraq for the wrong reasons, fighting a war which obviously hasn't ended, for a president who lied and has his troops in Iraq for political and economic gain - not for any belief in liberating the Iraqis.

The soldiers were not the targets. Civilian Turkish nationals carrying supplies were the target. The MPS were way behind them and came up to protect them.

I agree we certainly do see things differently.

 

[Fu_chick]

I have US friends who tell me,

YOU have friends!?! :shock:

 

[Glanecia]

So what happens to anybody brave enough to refuse the pledge just because they don't want to say it?

:doh

Well, we send those kids off to boot camp until they learn proper respect yes SIR!.

It strikes me as funny, that you'd think something would happen to them. What, they'd get detention for being a Jehovah’s Witness? Teehee!

Of course, in most schools, you've got to have a real reason --"I'm lazy today" won't get you out of saying the pledge.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Don't you believe people who commit murder should be punished? Do you attempt to make the moral equivilance between murderers and our military?

.

You volunteer for the military, you know killing's involved.
You agree to fight a dirty war for Bush - you take the consequences.

What country has a lower unemployment rate?.

All capitalist countries have an unemployment scrapheap.
I believe lower rates are to be found in the UK, Denmark and the Netherlands than in your nation or mine. Those 3 happen to be in the EU.

So you think unsulting the great state of Tennessee helps to make your case? I think you owe a lot of people an appology.

I'll apologise to the lovely Ann Peebles. Nobody else.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

YOU have friends! :shock:

Yes, probably becuase I'm a woman and not a "chick" :roll:

 

[Naughty Nurse]

:doh

Well, we send those kids off to boot camp until they learn proper respect yes SIR!.

It strikes me as funny, that you'd think something would happen to them. What, they'd get detention for being a Jehovah’s Witness? Teehee!

No, my question was what happens to someone who refuses to say the pledge just because they don't want to, not because of religion, and you have partially answered that:

Of course, in most schools, you've got to have a real reason --"I'm lazy today" won't get you out of saying the pledge.

So, most children are forced to recite the pledge, but that isn't, erm, indoctrination?

 

[Glanecia]

No, my question was what happens to someone who refuses to say the pledge just because they don't want to, not because of religion, and you have partially answered that:


So, most children are forced to recite the pledge, but that isn't, erm, indoctrination?

I thought I was clear enough, but let me elaborate:

In my 27 years of being an American I've never known anyone to refuse the Pledge, other than for religious reasons. Kids want to say the pledge. I wanted to, my friends wanted to. In Kindergarten, it was almost like a contest to see who could memorize it first. It was loads of fun. As I grew, it became more than fun--it became meaningful.

So, from my own experience, I could not tell you what would happen if someone refused to say the pledge with 'no good reason'.

Yet, if they're refusing the pledge, then you'd think they have a good reason -involving personal beliefs. You can't force beliefs on a person in the USA--just doesn't work that way. Cool thing is--it's not really an issue. Americans love their country.

I do know one thing for sure. If a parent tells a teacher 'my child won't say the pledge because we don't approve of it'..then the teacher must respect the family's wishes.

I hope that paints a clearer picture for ya'll.

Reciting the pledge is a part of their education. Recitation is a common practice in every area of the classroom. That's how I learned my time tables, that's how I learned poetry, that's how I learned the words to our pledge. It's kind of nice to know the words to a pledge which unites me with my fellow countrymen, ya know?

If someone didn't agree with the message, they wouldn't have to say it--but learning what it means--every American citizen will get that. Knowledge is power--ignorance is a shame. Also, reciting the pledge is a great way to show pride and loyalty for our country. Americans value pride. We value loyalty. Most of all, we value freedom. If reciting the pledge doesn't jive with someone, then Americans are FREE to remain silent. Imagine that. *wink*

Indoctrination? I understand that word to mean, "teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically." Do you agree? If so, then trust me--American public school teachers do not indoctrinate. We'd be fired. lol. We're hired to educate, not indoctrinate.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

--but learning what it means--every American citizen will get that. .

Healthy societies have pluralistic thought, dissent, debate.
The fact that you claim "every" American (we assume you mean United Statesian) citizen will get that, betrays the fact that they're being indoctrinated, not educated.
*wink*
*vomit*

 

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Stinger


Don't you believe people who commit murder should be punished? Do you attempt to make the moral equivilance between murderers and our military?

You volunteer for the military, you know killing's involved.
You agree to fight a dirty war for Bush - you take the consequences.

Please address the questions I asked do you make the moral ezuivilance between murderers and our military? Do you know the difference?

All capitalist countries have an unemployment scrapheap.
I believe lower rates are to be found in the UK, Denmark and the Netherlands than in your nation or mine. Those 3 happen to be in the EU.

Actually we are about even with those three and much better than France and Germany

United States - 5.1%

Denmark

MAY. 26 6:41 A.M. ET Denmark's unemployment held steady in April at 5.9 percent, the same rate as in March, the Danish statistics agency said Thursday. The jobless rate was down from 6.5 percent in April last year.

There were 163,900 people without jobs last month in the country of 5.4 million, compared with 164,000 in March, Statistics Denmark said.


England - 4.7%

Netherlands - 6%

So I guess Denmark the Netherlands Germany and France make the grade as unemployment scrapheaps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger

So you think unsulting the great state of Tennessee helps to make your case? I think you owe a lot of people an appology.

I'll apologise to the lovely Ann Peebles. Nobody else.

So do you make it a habit of making such bigoted statements towards so many people?

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Please address the questions I asked do you make the moral ezuivilance between murderers and our military? Do you know the difference?

Murder becuase you chose to pick up a knife and kill somebody; Murder by the state in the form of the death penalty. Murder by proxy: Bush sending out this young woman to kill for him. Yes, I'd call them all murder.

Actually we are about even with those three and much better than France and Germany

United States - 5.1%

Denmark

MAY. 26 6:41 A.M. ET Denmark's unemployment held steady in April at 5.9 percent, the same rate as in March, the Danish statistics agency said Thursday. The jobless rate was down from 6.5 percent in April last year.

There were 163,900 people without jobs last month in the country of 5.4 million, compared with 164,000 in March, Statistics Denmark said.


England - 4.7%

Netherlands - 6%

So I guess Denmark the Netherlands Germany and France make the grade as unemployment scrapheaps.

But how are your statistics compiled, Do you, as in most European nations, include married women who don't work? Seasonal workers during their periods of inactivity? And how many of your employed are on insecure fixed term and temporary contracts? Or doing agency replacement work only with no security and no benefits?
In any case, the fact remains that unemployment only exists because it serves a useful purpose for capitalism - which doesn't want full employment. Capitalism relies on keeping a certain number of people in insecure employment and in unemployment: keep them on their toes and they won't cause trouble or ask too much if they fear for their jobs.
We have unemployment, like you, because we have capitalism, but at least our socialist governments, when they've been in power, have implemented measures which cushion the blow of unemployment more than if you live in the US.

So do you make it a habit of making such bigoted statements towards so many people?

Yes. People here expect it of me now.

 

[Fu_chick]

Yes, probably becuase I'm a woman and not a "chick" :roll:

I'm sure that's it hon, I'm sure that's it. :roll:

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Our unemployment data includes everyone over the age of 16 who is looking for work but can't find it. Work is defined as over 20 hours a week. So we include married women who don't work only if they're trying to work, otherwise they're not considered part of the labor force, and are thus not counted.

That's just flat out not true. The definition of full employment is not 100% of the work force is employed, but it's moreso between 95-96% employment, because of the natural rate of unemployment, which are the people who are unemployed for specific reasons, including they hold seasonal jobs, or they are used to older technology and need to be retrained, etc. We are just around full employment, maybe a couple tenths of a percent off.
And there is no benefit in having unemployed people to capitalism as a whole, because capitalism is an exchange, and the more people that are unemployed, the more people have less money, and so the more people buy less ****, and so businesses suffer as well. It is in the business's best interest to have the fewest employees with maximized efficiency, but that's just from a not wasting money on workers you don't need aspect, not a big "Keep the poor poor" conspiracy aspect.

Dearest I would point you the direction of the classic theorists on Taylorism, Scientific Management etc. (Fayol, Hickmott) and if you can get hold of anything by Will Hutton on his 30/30/40 society. Capitalism loves unemployment. Capitalism loves insecure employment. Throw them on the scrapheap when we don't need them, and remind the others that's where they'll end up if they start asking for too much.

We disagree on this one hon, but you're still my big man.

 

[Glanecia]

Healthy societies have pluralistic thought, dissent, debate.
The fact that you claim "every" American (we assume you mean United Statesian) citizen will get that, betrays the fact that they're being indoctrinated, not educated.
*wink*
*vomit*

Apparently you do not know what the word 'indoctrination' means.

Think about it.

Free education for all (including learning about our country) = indoctrination?

I've said this before, here it is again:

We don't tell people what to think (aka indoctrination) we teach them how to think (aka education).

Let's put this in a different perspective. Many teachers in the USA are teaching children about Islam. Now, of course, they cannot teach "this is what you ought to believe" but they do teach "this is what the Muslims believe". Religious tolerance is a good thing. :2razz:

In the same way, they teach "This is what America stands for" rather than "This is what you must stand for."

Of course, most children, just as I did will love what America stands for. Accepting the pledge isn't a difficult thing to do. It's an honor. Our country kicks a**, and the world might hate it...but they know it. *wink*

Didn't you know that the USA refers to themselves as Americans? It's okay to call us Americans, you know. lol

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Didn't you know that the USA refers to themselves as Americans? It's okay to call us Americans, you know. lol

I've met many South Americans who would disagree very strongly with that statement. Best invade them before they get out of hand.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

But also keep in mind that scientific management is outdated, because it's been widely accepted as not the most efficient form of management.

But often still applied, love trumpet.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Apparently you do not know what the word 'indoctrination' means.

Apparently you have now idea how arrogant you're sounding

Of course, most children, just as I did will love what America stands for. Accepting the pledge isn't a difficult thing to do. It's an honor. Our country kicks a**, and the world might hate it...but they know it.

It is exactly this attitude that gets you hated.
What makes you think you have the right to kick ass? Your own house is barely in order.
Why not mediate, help, encourage democracy through supporting the struggles of the oppressed via international organisations such as the UN? But no, you can just ignore the UN when they don't agree with your oil wars.

*wink*

Girlfriend you need to get that twitch looked at. It's pathological.
I bet you can't walk through the mall without 400 terrified guys thinking you've come on to them.

 

[Glanecia]

I've met many South Americans who would disagree very strongly with that statement. Best invade them before they get out of hand.

Not a bad idea. :rofl

Apparently you have now idea how arrogant you're sounding

Nah, I think I have a pretty good idea of how arrogant I am.

It is exactly this attitude that gets you hated.
What makes you think you have the right to kick ass? Your own house is barely in order.
Why not mediate, help, encourage democracy through supporting the struggles of the oppressed via international organisations such as the UN? But no, you can just ignore the UN when they don't agree with your oil wars.

What exactly, is out of order? Do tell.

Girlfriend you need to get that twitch looked at. It's pathological.
I bet you can't walk through the mall without 400 terrified guys thinking you've come on to them.

Awww, you thought I was flirting with you. How special. *giggle* Behold, the power of winking. *wink*

 

[Urethra Franklin]

What exactly, is out of order? Do tell.

Where to start? *wink*
Have you got all day? *twitch*
Well let's go *double back flip with pike sukahara*

Totally biassed media. Very little outlet for truly socialist or communist opinion.
Indoctrination of children, which you've openly admitted you partake in.
Apalling levels of poverty in the richest economy in the world. Inequitable systems which make your rich filthy rich, and many at the bottom with an atrocious existence in ghettos, access to none but the most rudimentary health care and little chance of employment.
Televangelism.
Disrespect for human rights. Destabilsing democratically elected governments you don't like (Chile) and propping up dictatorships where human rights aren't respected if it suits your economic aims (Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia).
The Osmonds.
Dropping bombs indiscriminately on civillian targets (Serbia) and even getting the wrong country (Romanian homes were bombed in error).
Richard Simmonds.
Human rights abuses in Iraq and at Guantanamo.
Illegal occupation of Cuban territory at Guantanamo.
Trying to meddle in the internal affairs of others (Bush proclaiming he expects this and that from the EU - none of his damn business).
Bastardisation of the English language.
Many cities divided into "black" "white" "hispanic" etc. neighbourhoods despite claims to be "melting pot"
Rampant obesity (a result of rampant greed)
Making friends of tyrants like Saddam Hussein, then changing your mind when he won't give you oil.
Ronald McDonald
Levels of racism and homophobia which at times beggar belief.
Friends *vomit*
Supporting central American death sqauds because they're oppopsed to socialist movements.

Is that enough to start with? *wink* *twitch*

A good neurologist could sort out your epilepsy.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Awww, you thought I was flirting with you. How special. *giggle* Behold, the power of winking. *wink*

Glad you're at ease with your lesbianism, but no, if I thought you were flirting with me I'd be on the next flight to Mars.

 

[Glanecia]

Glad you're at ease with your lesbianism, but no, if I thought you were flirting with me I'd be on the next flight to Mars.

Did you want to talk about lesbianism now? Boy, this has gotten way off topic--but I'm game. *wink*

Oh, and about Mars...that planet belongs to the USA, along with the moon, sorry. :rofl

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Did you want to talk about lesbianism now? Boy, this has gotten way off topic--but I'm game. *wink*

Oh, and about Mars...that planet belongs to the USA, along with the moon, sorry. :rofl

You ask me a question and then you're unable to address any of the many points I raise. Why am I not surprised?
Your care bear forgot to add to his/her checklist "unable to act or argue rationally"
*wink*
*wank*
*double vomit*