• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ted Cruz or Bust

imyoda

DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
5,731
Reaction score
1,025
Location
Sarasota, Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Ted Cruz ? Republican Party?s Best Hope
Ted Cruz or Bust


If the Republican Party is to be saved from Donald Trump, Ted Cruz’s runaway victory in Wisconsin will have been the inflection point. If you thought this service to the GOP would be met with plaudits and gratitude from the party’s insiders, you obviously don’t know anything about their relationship to the Texas senator. St. Augustine famously prayed, Dear Lord, make me chaste — but not yet. The GOP establishment’s prayer is, Dear Lord, deliver us from Donald Trump — but not with Ted Cruz. The increasing likelihood of a contested convention in Cleveland has led to chatter about such a conclave turning to a white knight who has the advantage of being neither Trump nor Cruz. House Speaker Paul Ryan, who ascended to the third-highest constitutional office in the land while (sincerely) saying he didn’t want it, is most often mentioned for the honor of winning a nomination he didn’t run for.


Poor Ted Cruz…………..The most despised man in Congress and many other places too………… is being use by the D.C. boys as their tool to stop Trump……….

He is wicked smart but new to politics and possibly somewhat naïve…… But I would not under estimate him…….

BTW
(Have you ever closely taken note of his face with the deep sunken squinty eyes and a Halloween type nose………IMHO……….He look like evil personified)

After the first ballot with Trump not selected…….

………. the Establishment elitist Cruz will be dropped like flies………..

… and D.C. dandies will then have “their” golden boy white knight candidate nominated……….

Think of the three R’s
Romney Rubio Ryan ……Sort of like getting Twiddle-dee and Twiddle-dumb with a “kicker”

My money is on Ryan who does not want the nomination…… Just like he did not want to be Speaker…….
 

Frank Apisa

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
2,718
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Ted Cruz ? Republican Party?s Best Hope
Ted Cruz or Bust


If the Republican Party is to be saved from Donald Trump, Ted Cruz’s runaway victory in Wisconsin will have been the inflection point. If you thought this service to the GOP would be met with plaudits and gratitude from the party’s insiders, you obviously don’t know anything about their relationship to the Texas senator. St. Augustine famously prayed, Dear Lord, make me chaste — but not yet. The GOP establishment’s prayer is, Dear Lord, deliver us from Donald Trump — but not with Ted Cruz. The increasing likelihood of a contested convention in Cleveland has led to chatter about such a conclave turning to a white knight who has the advantage of being neither Trump nor Cruz. House Speaker Paul Ryan, who ascended to the third-highest constitutional office in the land while (sincerely) saying he didn’t want it, is most often mentioned for the honor of winning a nomination he didn’t run for.


Poor Ted Cruz…………..The most despised man in Congress and many other places too………… is being use by the D.C. boys as their tool to stop Trump……….

He is wicked smart but new to politics and possibly somewhat naïve…… But I would not under estimate him…….

BTW
(Have you ever closely taken note of his face with the deep sunken squinty eyes and a Halloween type nose………IMHO……….He look like evil personified)

After the first ballot with Trump not selected…….

………. the Establishment elitist Cruz will be dropped like flies………..

… and D.C. dandies will then have “their” golden boy white knight candidate nominated……….

Think of the three R’s
Romney Rubio Ryan ……Sort of like getting Twiddle-dee and Twiddle-dumb with a “kicker”

My money is on Ryan who does not want the nomination…… Just like he did not want to be Speaker…….

Ryan is Toranaga, the guy who managed to become Shogun, by not wanting to be Shogun.
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,638
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
I'll take bust.
 

imyoda

DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
5,731
Reaction score
1,025
Location
Sarasota, Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
The Cruz Campaign is busy getting their people selected as delegates from the states. RNC members make up about 7% of the delegates.

Ted Cruz, not Paul Ryan, would probably win a contested convention

What I do know is Trump wins the state and the Cruz folks go in and get the delegates to back Cruz......... and recruit more or equal to the guy who won the state..........

Go Figure........

Of course The Donald whines ........"It ain't fair.............. They are not treating me nice............. And I'm going to sue the RNC to stop this "theft" of Donald delegates...........

Isn't what Cruz is doing against the rules?...............There ain't no rules........
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
66,533
Reaction score
33,901
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
What I do know is Trump wins the state and the Cruz folks go in and get the delegates to back Cruz......... and recruit more or equal to the guy who won the state..........

The delegates are bound on the first ballot. What happens after that is (to varying degrees) up to them. If the Trump campaign wasn't savvy enough (I thought he hired the best people, and had the best brain?) to realize that that might become important, that's their fault.

Isn't what Cruz is doing against the rules?

No. It is, in fact, explicitly the rules.
 

Frank Apisa

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
2,718
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The delegates are bound on the first ballot. What happens after that is (to varying degrees) up to them. If the Trump campaign wasn't savvy enough (I thought he hired the best people, and had the best brain?) to realize that that might become important, that's their fault.



No. It is, in fact, explicitly the rules.

It is a game that has been played by MANY politicians in both parties over the years.

Trump should have boned up on the mechanics of the process. Cruz did. And from what I hear, Cruz has been lobbying the party bosses in all the states for years now. He knows them all.

That's the good part. The bad part is: They know him.
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
66,533
Reaction score
33,901
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
It is a game that has been played by MANY politicians in both parties over the years.

Trump should have boned up on the mechanics of the process. Cruz did. And from what I hear, Cruz has been lobbying the party bosses in all the states for years now. He knows them all.

That's the good part. The bad part is: They know him.

Cruz has been a good closer in almost every state (if not every state). It seems that face-to-face-Cruz gives you a different impression than television-Cruz.
 

clownboy

DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
10,860
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Cruz has been a good closer in almost every state (if not every state). It seems that face-to-face-Cruz gives you a different impression than television-Cruz.

No he hasn't. That's why he's getting stomped. I'm not the only one that gets the creeps watching him speak, lot of people say the same thing. There something very unnerving about him. He's like sweaty Nixon from the JFK era.
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
66,533
Reaction score
33,901
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
No he hasn't. That's why he's getting stomped.

:lol: He has won the last four states in a row, and is now about tied in national polling.

Cruz overperforms his polls, as he can pick up late deciders once the campaign actually gets to the state, and they get to see him. Trump tends to stay at about or a little under his polling numbers, because he can't, and they don't.

If Cruz was getting stomped, Trump wouldn't be out there whining about how unfair everything was, and making up crap about how he's cheating.

I'm not the only one that gets the creeps watching him speak, lot of people say the same thing. There something very unnerving about him. He's like sweaty Nixon from the JFK era.

Yeah - as I stated, it seems he gives off a very different impression in person than he does on television.
 

clownboy

DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
10,860
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
:lol: He has won the last four states in a row, and is now about tied in national polling.

Cruz overperforms his polls, as he can pick up late deciders once the campaign actually gets to the state, and they get to see him. Trump tends to stay at about or a little under his polling numbers, because he can't, and they don't.

If Cruz was getting stomped, Trump wouldn't be out there whining about how unfair everything was, and making up crap about how he's cheating.



Yeah - as I stated, it seems he gives off a very different impression in person than he does on television.

No he hasn't. And his delegate count puts him at a very distant second. There is absolutely no path for him to take 1,237 - even now that he has signed on as buttboy for the establishment. And he's not tied in national polling, Trump still beats him, every time.

He's about to be embarrassed in a couple of the largest states in the union. Why continue on with this worthless sellout?


http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/
 

shagg

Wading Through Bull****
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
1,681
Reaction score
1,219
Location
Rhode Island
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If the nominee is....

Trump: lose the General, but no angry mobs

Kasich/Ryan/Batman/Whoever: Face the angry mobs, but have a shot at winning the General

Cruz: lose the General, and still face the angry mobs


Now sure there probably won't literal angry mobs, but the anger will be there, and anger is one of the most effective ways to motivate a voter. The anger might be slightly less with Cruz as he's got a more legitimate claim with the delegates hes won, but Trump will still have a commanding lead. Picking Cruz is still snubbing a lot of voters and the democratic process in general. That, and the fact that Cruz's chances in the General are the same as Trumps: not zero, but completely dependent on Shillary getting the nod and then getting indicted, and even then America will probably go for Shillary in orange over either Trump or Cruz.

If the RNC has control over who is eventually the nominee through the brokered convention, and they're willing to endure voter outrage anyway, they will avoid Cruz go for someone with a chance at winning. If they want to avoid the voter outrage they will go with whoever has the most delegates, almost certainly Trump. It's a tough call really, considering that voter outrage is the reason Trump is a problem in the first place, and denying him may make it even worse going forward, but then all those SCOTUS seats are on the line too.

If the RNC doesn't have that sort of control, then what will be will be. But Cruz is just as bad as Trump, just in different ways.
 

countryboy

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
18,765
Reaction score
7,408
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
No he hasn't. That's why he's getting stomped. I'm not the only one that gets the creeps watching him speak, lot of people say the same thing. There something very unnerving about him. He's like sweaty Nixon from the JFK era.
Are you ****ing serious? No, you are not the only one who has expressed that sentiment. But what you do have in common with others who have expressed that opinion is, you seem to be judging Cruz based on superficial nonsense. Get ahold yourself man.
 

clownboy

DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
10,860
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Are you ****ing serious? No, you are not the only one who has expressed that sentiment. But what you do have in common with others who have expressed that opinion is, you seem to be judging Cruz based on superficial nonsense. Get ahold yourself man.

Except, despite his persona I'd have been willing to vote for the guy if he took the nomination, said that from the start. But now that he's proven himself to be a sellout, added to the creep factor and I'd never vote for him.
 

Ntharotep

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2015
Messages
1,503
Reaction score
663
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Give me a nice bust over Teddy Cruz any day/night of the week...
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
66,533
Reaction score
33,901
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
No he hasn't.

? Utah, Colorado, North Dakota, Wisconsin. I'm not a math surgeon, but as I recall 1+1+1+1=4.

He'll win New York, but the calendar from there on is a rougher picture

Vote Share.jpg

There is absolutely no path for him to take 1,237

Well, no. It's still mathematically possible. It's just not plausible.

Mind you, the odds that Trump will get to 1,237 are dropping as well. It looks like we are heading to a contested convention. :) For someone who is as legendary a deal maker as Donald Trump, I'm sure that will be exactly his element, and he will be able to prove how effective he is by winning over a majority support.

even now that he has signed on as buttboy for the establishment

:lamo


And he's not tied in national polling, Trump still beats him, every time.

No, he doesn't

Reuters.jpg

Generally, it's within the margin of error now, in either direction.

He's about to be embarrassed in a couple of the largest states in the union.

:shrug: Trump's in his home state. He has to win the home state. The question is whether or not Cruz can hold him below 50% in the Congressional Districts.


I'm glad to see you bring up 538 as a source, as they are the source of the graph I posted above, regarding what Trump needs to get to win, v what he is actually getting.
 
Last edited:

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
66,533
Reaction score
33,901
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Except, despite his persona I'd have been willing to vote for the guy if he took the nomination, said that from the start. But now that he's proven himself to be a sellout, added to the creep factor and I'd never vote for him.

:lol: "Sellout", of course, being defined as "Running against Donald Trump".
 

clownboy

DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
10,860
Location
Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
:lol: "Sellout", of course, being defined as "Running against Donald Trump".

No, and you know it. This is the same old Lyin Ted script you're parroting. He sold out to the very people he supposedly has opposed the last four years when he was getting absolutely nothing done. Their cash, their political machine is on his side now. He made the deal with the devil.
 

soot

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
4,308
Reaction score
2,530
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
:lol: He has won the last four states in a row...

Wha?

Cruz won WI on 4/5

He won UT on 3/22 while that same day Trump won AZ.

On 3/15 Trump won MO, FL, NC and IL while Kasich won OH and Cruz won a big goose egg.

All this talk about a brokered convention is little more than idle chatter from the malcontents right now.

More wishful thinking that foregone conclusion.

In order to secure the 1237 Trump needs to win a little more than 50% of the remaining 882 delegates.

Up to this point Trump has won a little more than 50% of the delegates that have already been in play.

Based on the trend of the last couple of primaries (Trump won five of them, Cruz two, and Kasich one) there doesn't seem to be any major shift in won:lost ratios that would indicate Trump's popularity is tapering off.

If Trump loses NY on the 19th then we can start talking about maybe he doesn't bring the necessary number of delegates in to the convention with him and then we start looking at CA in June as the deciding race.

But counting Trump out now is entirely premature.

It's the kind of "shock and awe" nonsense that the media needs to pull in order to get people to click on their articles.

It's not something intelligent people who follow politics closely should be talking about if they expect to be taken seriously among like-minded people.
 

tessaesque

Bring us a shrubbery!
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
15,910
Reaction score
12,629
Location
Plano, Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
I sincerely cannot understand how Cruz is less palatable to people than Donald "It's yuuuuuuugeeeeeeeee" Trump. The man is as smarmy and disingenuous as any politician ever was and has the added benefit of being a delusion, raging narcissist on top of it.
 

bubbabgone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
30,701
Reaction score
15,833
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Except, despite his persona I'd have been willing to vote for the guy if he took the nomination, said that from the start. But now that he's proven himself to be a sellout, added to the creep factor and I'd never vote for him.

You've noticed that creep factor too, huh.
Pretty striking isn't it?

Let's face it, Trump is a boor, Cruz is creepy, Kasich is squishy.

But I'd still have to vote for any one of the 3 over either one of the 2.
 

bubbabgone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
30,701
Reaction score
15,833
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I sincerely cannot understand how Cruz is less palatable to people than Donald "It's yuuuuuuugeeeeeeeee" Trump. The man is as smarmy and disingenuous as any politician ever was and has the added benefit of being a delusion, raging narcissist on top of it.

This is a Cruz thread, leave Obama out of it.
 

countryboy

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
18,765
Reaction score
7,408
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Except, despite his persona I'd have been willing to vote for the guy if he took the nomination, said that from the start. But now that he's proven himself to be a sellout, added to the creep factor and I'd never vote for him.

Whatever. Should he have rejected endorsements from establishment types. Don't be ridiculous.
 
Top Bottom