Ted Cruz: "Make El Chapo Pay for the Wall". I like it.

[Lord Tammerlain]

Ladders haven't worked yet on the Israeli wall why assume they will on our soon to be constructed wall.

The Israeli wall is heavily patrolled and under heavy observation which is done on both side of the wall depending on location. Without the heavy patrolling the wall would be far less effective.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Anyone can scale this huge proposed wall with a cheap ladder but we'll have no problem keeping any banned firearms out.

In fairness, I don't think it's correct to assume a barrier/wall wouldn't turn some people away. Walls do work for those who aren't willing to undertake the risk of trying to get around them. However when you pair desperate people and a financial incentive, it increases the possibility of them finding that kind of determination; plus the financial incentive for people smugglers. Knowing that, any plan should include funding for increased staff and technology to handle those possibilities plus meaningful enforcement to drive down the ability of businesses to hire illegal immigrants.

 

[jdog21]

So if it stops 1 person, it was worth spending $5b? No? Then how about if it stops 2 people?

It sounds like you're just pulling "facts" out of your ass. Please provide links to reputable studies that confirm this.

https://cis.org/Can-Border-Wall-Pay-Itself

Department of Homeland Security indicates that 170,000 illegal immigrants crossed the border successfully without going through a port of entry in 2015. While a significant decline in crossings from a decade ago, it still means that there may be 1.7 million successful crossings in the next decade. If a wall stopped just 9 to 12 percent of these crossings it would pay for itself

https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-cannot-pay-itself

https://cis.org/Camarota/Even-Cato-Agrees-Border-Wall-Can-Pay-Itself

So, despite the Cato blog post being titled "The Border Wall Cannot Pay for Itself", their own cost estimates would simply mean that a border wall would have to stop 16 to 20 percent of those expected in the next decade to pay for itself (as opposed to 9 to 12 percent in my estimate).

The most comprehensive look at trends at the border is a 2016 report from the Institute for Defense Analyses done for the Department of Homeland Security. One of the conclusions of that report is that the probability of illegal border-crossers getting caught at the border has increased significantly due to better border control efforts, including fencing and barriers

 

[jdog21]

The Israeli wall is heavily patrolled and under heavy observation which is done on both side of the wall depending on location. Without the heavy patrolling the wall would be far less effective.

You are only really asking the wall to detour and to help increase the probability of arrests. A 20% percent deduction in the amount of successful border crossing is all that's needed to pay for the costs over a 10 year span. But more patrolling agents add with the wall would be nice too.

 

[Tom Horn]

And it should be expanded to other areas as well, IMHO...

I see nothing wrong comparatively with Pappa.

 

[SheWolf]

I love this idea...which could be extended to a variety of areas, and a variety of legal asset seizures!

Should have used Iran's previously frozen assets to fight Iranian-sponsored terrorism , for example, instead of retuening it to them for use in financing their attacks in Syria, etc.

Use any seized assets from cyber hackers to fund advancements in cyber security...etc...etc...


Ted Cruz Is Right: Make El Chapo Pay for the Wall


It would be poetic justice, is deliciously named, and wouldn’t cost the taxpayers a dime. It doesn’t make Mexico pay for the wall, just one particular Mexican who has done great injury to the people of the United States and who is responsible for a major part of drugs flooding into the United States.

Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) introduced a bill calling for the use of $14 billion seized from cartel drug lord Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman to be used to pay for the President’s border wall between the U.S. and Mexico.

“Fourteen billion dollars will go a long way toward building a wall that will keep Americans safe and hinder the illegal flow of drugs, weapons, and individuals across our southern border,” Senator Cruz stated, according to a statement obtained by Breitbart Texas from the senator’s office…

The Texas senator said that leveraging criminally forfeited assets from El Chapo and other Mexican cartel members and drug dealers can “offset the wall’s cost and make meaningful progress toward achieving President Trump’s stated border security objectives.”







https://www.americanthinker.com/art...Yvzpjpn94WL_60mHAVLLu5YTzt3bVWE2oqypOznFMFqJY

This is absurd. Just because El Chapo is kind of a bad guy, and happens to be from Mexico, is not a valid reason for the US government to seize his assets and sue him for wall funding. The idea is totally insane, and possibly illegal. This is another example of conservative hypocrisy when it comes to concept of innocent until proven guilty and due process. We have a constitution and own laws to follow. There is no reason for an American mob to demand something more insane on one particular Mexican criminal, than expecting Mexico to pay for the wall. Neither are going to happen

 

[ElChupacabra]

This is absurd. Just because El Chapo is kind of a bad guy, and happens to be from Mexico, is not a valid reason for the US government to seize his assets and sue him for wall funding. The idea is totally insane, and possibly illegal. This is another example of conservative hypocrisy when it comes to concept of innocent until proven guilty and due process. We have a constitution and own laws to follow. There is no reason for an American mob to demand something more insane on one particular Mexican criminal, than expecting Mexico to pay for the wall. Neither are going to happen

...and more importantly because the person who promised Mexico would pay for it is grasping for straws.

 

[MrShangles]

The wall isn’t going to affect the smuggling of the cartel’s drugs. Over 95% of drugs coming in nowadays come via water, not land or air.

But we can stop 5% isn’t that a start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[What if...?]

https://cis.org/Can-Border-Wall-Pay-Itself


https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-cannot-pay-itself

https://cis.org/Camarota/Even-Cato-Agrees-Border-Wall-Can-Pay-Itself

If I read it right, that 16-20% number only applies if you use all of the problematic metrics in the cis analysis.

If you use better data, it approaches/exceeds mathematical impossibility.

"How to lie with statistics".

 

[Mr Person]

There is a fence there now, are they using ladders? Plus, once you use a ladder on the mexican side, how do you get down?

Have someone there to hand you another ladder, which you then pull up and flip over the wall. Derpity do-dah-duh. Or perhaps have someone toss up/carry up a rope, to be affixed to the top. Or any other number of things.

Ladders really aren't all that heavy, y'know...

 

[Mr Person]

Ladders haven't worked yet on the Israeli wall why assume they will on our soon to be constructed wall.

^
This is idiotic. Israel can afford to properly monitor/patrol their much smaller wall. Sealing off the southern border is a project orders of magnitude greater. To properly patrol it, you'd practically have to deploy an army's worth of newly hired officers. You would then need to set up a massive supply chain, build a ton of infrastructure, procure tons more vehicles/equipment.

In short, the cost of properly patrolling a wall so that it would keep out illegals meaningfully would be astronomical, and far greater from any harm that illegals allegedly do. It would also cause them to switch to being smuggled in by sea.





Oh right, PS: something like 3/4ths or so of those unlawfully present ('illegal immigrant') actually overstayed their visas. Walls do not stop people from overstaying visas.

 

[JustHanging]

https://cis.org/Can-Border-Wall-Pay-Itself


https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-cannot-pay-itself

https://cis.org/Camarota/Even-Cato-Agrees-Border-Wall-Can-Pay-Itself

The cato source is based on and is an update of the cis source.

You didn't bother reading your links did you? I know it was many pages long, and had a lot of math, but if you are going to include a link to a source, please have the common courtesy to have read it yourself. Thanks.

From the cato site:

A Better Cost Estimate Should Include These Variables

A better fiscal cost analysis of the border wall will include the more detailed demographic and age profile of anticipated illegal immigrant border crossers as well as several other factors listed below.

The wall will not prevent nearly as many apprehensions as assumed. CIS’ report does not provide any evidence that the wall will stop illegal immigrant border crossers. There is virtually no evidence that the current border barriers—particularly those outside of urban areas—have any impact on the net flow of illegal entries. The main effect of border barriers is to channel illegal border crossers into more remote areas. The Congressional Research Service concluded, “The primary fence, by itself, did not have a discernible impact on the influx of unauthorized aliens coming across the border in San Diego.”


Highlighting mine.

 

[zimmer]

1980 Conservatives: Tear down that Wall!

2018 Conservatives: Build me a Wall or I’ll hold my breath until my face turns blue!

And people wonder why I quit the GOP...

Because you can’t think clearly perhaps?

1. The DDR built a wall to keep people in and enslaved. Despite Communism failing at virtually everything, their was almost 100% effective for almost 50-years.

2. Our wall is to keep illegal invaders out.

 

[zimmer]

^
This is idiotic. Israel can afford to properly monitor/patrol their much smaller wall. Sealing off the southern border is a project orders of magnitude greater. To properly patrol it, you'd practically have to deploy an army's worth of newly hired officers. You would then need to set up a massive supply chain, build a ton of infrastructure, procure tons more vehicles/equipment.

In short, the cost of properly patrolling a wall so that it would keep out illegals meaningfully would be astronomical, and far greater from any harm that illegals allegedly do. It would also cause them to switch to being smuggled in by sea.





Oh right, PS: something like 3/4ths or so of those unlawfully present ('illegal immigrant') actually overstayed their visas. Walls do not stop people from overstaying visas.

You seem not to have thought your argument through too well.

You have revealed our border is not being patrolled by a sufficient number of people now, as it takes more men and women to secure a border without a physical barrier. So, the wall will help with our limited staffing.

Thanks for your post.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

But we can stop 5% isn’t that a start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not for the cost. And in places where there are already walls, they have been throwing the drugs over for decades. There may arguable be a case it will affect illegal immigration. But it won’t deny drugs. That shouldn’t be used as a selling point.

 

[jdog21]

If I read it right, that 16-20% number only applies if you use all of the problematic metrics in the cis analysis.

If you use better data, it approaches/exceeds mathematical impossibility.

"How to lie with statistics".

Their hasnt been a "better" study. Find one and shot it over. Since their isn't one its the best information you have to go on and CATO tried to defeat it but concluded that it still will pay for itself just came to a different % number that it would have to reach.

 

[jdog21]

The cato source is based on and is an update of the cis source.

You didn't bother reading your links did you? I know it was many pages long, and had a lot of math, but if you are going to include a link to a source, please have the common courtesy to have read it yourself. Thanks.

From the cato site:

A Better Cost Estimate Should Include These Variables

A better fiscal cost analysis of the border wall will include the more detailed demographic and age profile of anticipated illegal immigrant border crossers as well as several other factors listed below.

The wall will not prevent nearly as many apprehensions as assumed. CIS’ report does not provide any evidence that the wall will stop illegal immigrant border crossers. There is virtually no evidence that the current border barriers—particularly those outside of urban areas—have any impact on the net flow of illegal entries. The main effect of border barriers is to channel illegal border crossers into more remote areas. The Congressional Research Service concluded, “The primary fence, by itself, did not have a discernible impact on the influx of unauthorized aliens coming across the border in San Diego.”


Highlighting mine.

Maybe you didn't read

Cato argues that a border wall would have no impact on the flow of illegal immigrants, citing as evidence a 2009 analysis by the Congressional Research Service on the impact of 14 miles of fence in the San Diego Sector from 1992 to 2004, which showed that it shifted illegal crossings further east. The fencing actually seems to have worked where it was in place. It is certainly reasonable to ask how effective a full border wall would be. The most comprehensive look at trends at the border is a 2016 report from the Institute for Defense Analyses done for the Department of Homeland Security. One of the conclusions of that report is that the probability of illegal border-crossers getting caught at the border has increased significantly due to better border control efforts, including fencing and barriers. Since the number of illegal immigrants crossing the border in the next decade will almost certainly number in the hundreds of thousands, even a partially effective wall would generate large fiscal savings.

 

[Deuce]

But we can stop 5% isn’t that a start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Spending $25 billion+ initially plus billions more in upkeep per year forever seems like an ineffective way to meet this goal of a 5% reduction in cross-border drug traffic.

 

[Threegoofs]

Have someone there to hand you another ladder, which you then pull up and flip over the wall. Derpity do-dah-duh. Or perhaps have someone toss up/carry up a rope, to be affixed to the top. Or any other number of things.

Ladders really aren't all that heavy, y'know...

This is a prime example of how we need intelligent immigrants in the country to increase growth.

If we had to rely on natives that can barely understand basic latter and rope technology, we’d be screwed.

 

[Mason66]

And yet he isn't the one who many top advisors refer to as an idiot, or a moron, take your pick. That would be Trump.


Nor is Fox the one who is a world wide laughing stock.

President Trump Is Literally the Laughingstock of the World
Donald Trump draws mocking laughter as he boasts of America’s ‘might’ at UN
America the laughingstock
Trump Has Made America Into A Laughingstock
The year the world laughed at the U.S.
European diplomats: Trump is a 'laughing stock'
'People here think Trump is a laughingstock'
Trump is making America the laughingstock of the world


Again, that would your POTUS, Trump. BTW, did you notice that Trump has made Americans, particularly his supporters also world wide laughing stocks? How does that feel?

Nobody mentioned Trump, did they?

Why do you post when you don't know what you are talking about?

 

[What if...?]

Maybe you didn't read

Still not seeing how making employers terrified to hire them wouldn't be FAR cheaper and more effective.

They ARE criminals. Flouting American laws. Hurting Americans. The root cause of the entire problem.

Immigrants don't migrate south.

Because there isn't anything to migrate TO. Make it impossible to get a job and I'm certain fewer will.come in the first place.

Make a nice app. Like uber. $5000 a head fine, 10% reward. Won't be a landscaping or construction crew using illegal labor in no time. Hotel/restaurant employees will get those. Because SOMEONE knows and the reward would be a really nice nest egg.

And the real beauty is that the fines would pay for the program. Maybe even generate a surplus.

What's not to like? Except it doesn't stick it to the illegals you have been conditioned to hate. Instead of the Americans that are drawing them here in the first place.

 

[azgreg]

Some don't need a ladder or rope.



If someone really wants to get here we would be hard pressed to stop them.

 

[Maccabee]

Some don't need a ladder or rope.



If someone really wants to get here we would be hard pressed to stop them.

But they were stopped.

 

[azgreg]

But they were stopped.

Yes they were but not by the wall. Irrelevant anyways as the video was just posted in reference to Fletch's comments about ladders.

 

[JustHanging]

I love this idea...which could be extended to a variety of areas, and a variety of legal asset seizures!

Should have used Iran's previously frozen assets to fight Iranian-sponsored terrorism , for example, instead of retuening it to them for use in financing their attacks in Syria, etc.

Use any seized assets from cyber hackers to fund advancements in cyber security...etc...etc...


Ted Cruz Is Right: Make El Chapo Pay for the Wall


It would be poetic justice, is deliciously named, and wouldn’t cost the taxpayers a dime. It doesn’t make Mexico pay for the wall, just one particular Mexican who has done great injury to the people of the United States and who is responsible for a major part of drugs flooding into the United States.

Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) introduced a bill calling for the use of $14 billion seized from cartel drug lord Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman to be used to pay for the President’s border wall between the U.S. and Mexico.

“Fourteen billion dollars will go a long way toward building a wall that will keep Americans safe and hinder the illegal flow of drugs, weapons, and individuals across our southern border,” Senator Cruz stated, according to a statement obtained by Breitbart Texas from the senator’s office…

The Texas senator said that leveraging criminally forfeited assets from El Chapo and other Mexican cartel members and drug dealers can “offset the wall’s cost and make meaningful progress toward achieving President Trump’s stated border security objectives.”







https://www.americanthinker.com/art...Yvzpjpn94WL_60mHAVLLu5YTzt3bVWE2oqypOznFMFqJY

What about making Trump pay for the wall? He's the one who wants it.