Ted Cruz, John Kasich join forces to stop Donald Trump

[radcen]

I have my doubts my friend, this election season has been too awkward and for all the wrong reasons. I am seeing a deterioration within the Republican Party that we should not ignore. On a Congressional seat level Republicans can still appeal to enough of a demographic to ensure a chair, but we are seeing something national where all these factions of the party can no longer get along. It is going to be interesting to see how the GOP handles this loss, on the heals of 2012 and 2008. All post a convention that might be contested.

Will they learn and adapt, or stay with the tired old path to a national nomination now marred in faction complications? It is a legitimate question the GOP is going to have to face.

I believe the GOP is in the beginning stages of a major transformation... completely independent of any influence from the Dems. It's wholly their own.

 

[radcen]

The ability of the establishment to screw up an absolute lay up election is incredible. We're finally coming off the worst President ever, with two Democrat/socialist/statist on the left that will clearly head down the same road to ruin. And they've managed to fight and sabotage each other enough to now give a hideous candidate like Hillary a very good chance of winning. Incredible.

Agreed. This election is the GOP's to lose, and it appears they are doing precisely that.

 

[MrT]

Donald Trump is NOT the result of libertarian or Tea party 'hijacking.' Trump is a New York liberal insurgent running AGAINT the establishment republicans that you seem to love. Get your facts straight

The reason that Trump is a result of the Tea Party hijacking is because this wing of the Republican party has convinced itself that a scorched earth, never compromise policy makes for good governance. And when you have to spend your entire political capital trying to convince everyone that the current President is evil and that everything he supports should be opposed, despite objective evidence to the contrary, you embolded individuals like Trump who can repeatedly make and stand by objectively false statements.

 

[Fletch]

The reason that Trump is a result of the Tea Party hijacking is because this wing of the Republican party has convinced itself that a scorched earth, never compromise policy makes for good governance. And when you have to spend your entire political capital trying to convince everyone that the current President is evil and that everything he supports should be opposed, despite objective evidence to the contrary, you embolded individuals like Trump who can repeatedly make and stand by objectively false statements.

Thank you. That is spoken like a liberal who hasn't got the foggiest idea what he is talking about. If 'scorched earth, never compromise' was what the right thought of 'good governance' the leader in the voting would not be a New York liberal who wrote The Art of the Deal. Seriously, stop watching MSNBC and start thinking for yourself.

 

[MrT]

This is an obvious admission by Kasich and Cruz that they are worried that Trump is going to wrap up the nomination before the convention. It reeks of desperation and makes both of them look incredibly weak.

It may reek of desperation, but that doesn't mean that this isn't a smart tactical decision. The only way that they have a chance at winning the nomination is to first stop Trump. And the only way to stop Trump is to ensure that he does not win-out through the rest of the contests. And since neither individual is willing to drop out completely, the lone remaining option to help ensure that they accomplish their goal is to join forces.

 

[MrT]

Thank you. That is spoken like a liberal who hasn't got the foggiest idea what he is talking about. If 'scorched earth, never compromise' was what the right thought of 'good governance' the leader in the voting would not be a New York liberal who wrote The Art of the Deal. Seriously, stop watching MSNBC and start thinking for yourself.

You aren't discrediting my opinion because you are limiting your discussion on the support of Trump to the "right." That is not the case. Trump has a coalition made most significantly of those who experience economic and racial anxiety. That is not the same as the "right" which is why there are significant populations of the Republican party that explicitly reject Trump.

And yet, Trump is still a product of the Tea Party movement because the types of tactics that they pursued - ideological purity, no compromise, unwillingness to admit to facts - are the same tactics that have earned Trump the amount of support that he has received thus far.

 

[MrT]

The ability of the establishment to screw up an absolute lay up election is incredible. We're finally coming off the worst President ever, with two Democrat/socialist/statist on the left that will clearly head down the same road to ruin. And they've managed to fight and sabotage each other enough to now give a hideous candidate like Hillary a very good chance of winning. Incredible.

No, Obama will go down in history as one of the better, if not one of the best, presidents of all time. Easily in the top 15.

 

[Bassman]

IF Trump was a centralist like you claim he'd be way ahead in the national polls on who does best against Hillary or Bernie but he gets buried. :roll:

He is an opportunist, a panderer to the worst of America's fears and hate. He calls everyone else a liar and yet there is so much tape on him doing just that. He is so unprepared to be President there is a collective horror across our Republic and the rest of the world. He is a thin skinned bully. A thick skulled rabble rouser. A vague hand gesture substitute for any sort of plan for the future- "trust me I'll do such great things"

Empty rhetoric is his forte- "Make America Great Again".... it already is the greatest nation on earth- our problem is all the regressive know nothings who demand we return to the 50's...

But you maybe correct on Trump as the salvation of the GOP. In a perverse way of course- Trump is brings the TP/ radical right pimple to a head. It will be popped and once all the pus is wiped away a new GOP will emerge... eace

You mean a GOP that is totally indistinguishable from you Communist Democrats.

 

[Bassman]

No, Obama will go down in history as one of the biggest douchebags, if not one of the best, presidents of all time. Easily in the top 15.

Fixed for accuracy

 

[Fletch]

You aren't discrediting my opinion because you are limiting your discussion on the support of Trump to the "right." That is not the case. Trump has a coalition made most significantly of those who experience economic and racial anxiety. That is not the same as the "right" which is why there are significant populations of the Republican party that explicitly reject Trump.

And yet, Trump is still a product of the Tea Party movement because the types of tactics that they pursued - ideological purity, no compromise, unwillingness to admit to facts - are the same tactics that have earned Trump the amount of support that he has received thus far.

Well, your first paragraph is closer to the truth. Your second paragraph describes Trumps personality mostly, but here is the key, Trump does not represent 'ideological purity.' Quite the contrary, the man isn't ideological at all. There isn't a person alive--including Trump himself--who knows what Trump would do as president. He is a populist. That is a far cry form being a Tea Party member or a libertarian. If you must know--and truly wish to be accurate when you say things--Cruz is the product of the Tea Party, not Trump.

 

[MrT]

Fixed for accuracy

If you'd like to review and/or comment on this topic, I would suggest going to this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...sidents-ever.html?highlight=obama+one+of+best

 

[Fletch]

No, Obama will go down in history as one of the better, if not one of the best, presidents of all time. Easily in the top 15.

Clearly in your eyes, but not by any objective measure of reality.

 

[MrT]

Clearly in your eyes, but not by any objective measure of reality.

How about consecutive months of private sector job growth?

Or weekly jobless claims that hit a 40 year low twice so far this year?

 

[radcen]

The ability of the establishment to screw up an absolute lay up election is incredible. We're finally coming off the worst President ever, with two Democrat/socialist/statist on the left that will clearly head down the same road to ruin. And they've managed to fight and sabotage each other enough to now give a hideous candidate like Hillary a very good chance of winning. Incredible.

No, Obama will go down in history as one of the better, if not one of the best, presidents of all time. Easily in the top 15.

You're both wrong. He will be middle-of-the-pack, at best. His term has been quite unremarkable. Even the ACA will be largely modified, if not outright replaced, in due time.

Obama will be right in there with Millard Fillmore and Warren Harding, the only distinction that will get him mentioned more often will be him being the first black President. That's it.

 

[Anthony60]

Agreed. This election is the GOP's to lose, and it appears they are doing precisely that.

The establishment would rather lose the election, than lose control of the party.

 

[haymarket]

1. You like the establishment ****heads in DC that have been the party of bend over.
2. Lets not be ridiculous and pretend for even an instant you give a wet fart about the Republican party except as chumps for the Democrats.
3. Given 1 and 2, why does anything you are saying have a shred of credibility?

My analysis has been spot on and you cannot find anything wrong with it so you simply attack me. Which says all we need to evaluate the content of your vitriolic post.

 

[Fletch]

How about consecutive months of private sector job growth?

Or weekly jobless claims that hit a 40 year low twice so far this year?

Those are good figures and I will be the first to acknowledge that the economy is doing quite well. But it was doing quite well under Bush as well until the final couple of months and no one is claiming he among the presidential elites. There are far more factors than economic numbers a president really has nothing to do with.

 

[Fletch]

My analysis has been spot on and you cannot find anything wrong with it so you simply attack me. Which says all we need to evaluate the content of your vitriolic post.

No, your analysis couldn't be more wrong and I pointed out exactly why that is. You aren't concerned with facts, you are governed by emotion--in this case that emotion is hate, hate for everything that you view as to your right.

 

[Anthony60]

No, Obama will go down in history as one of the better, if not one of the best, presidents of all time. Easily in the top 15.

Maybe from a socialists stand point. People who are against the Constitution and personal liberty will think that way, since he has fought to take away freedoms and give more power to the government. If you are against the founding principles of this country, then sure, he's done a great job destroying those values.

I'm measuring him against his charge of upholding the Constitution (remember that little oath he took?). He's pretty near dead last in that regard.

 

[justabubba]

This is a last ditch effort that reeks of desperation - not to mention perhaps the worst timing ever. Both of these guys have tickets in their hands to a voyage on the Titanic and they are arguing about who gets the room with the best view. This only makes Trump look stronger.

Kasich has not really been running a campaign for a while now so he has precious little to suspend in those states. And Cruz no longer has any real states to be competitive in so he concentrates on internal ground operation in states where he can steal delegates from Trump and counter the voters wishes. Some principled guy you have there. Cruz is a slimy scumbag who reeks of full blown creepiness on a level that you have to go back to Joe McCarthy to see.

In the end this probably matters little as Trump has boxed the GOP into such a corner that they only outcome is for them to lose big in November and lose the Senate as well.

If this story and strategy had appeared last December - things might have been different. But now its far too little and far too late to change the destiny of the Republicans which is to be the biggest losers since 1972.

the only thing that saves the GOP from this fate is the democratic party running hillary as its standard bearer

 

[haymarket]

No, your analysis couldn't be more wrong and I pointed out exactly why that is. You aren't concerned with facts, you are governed by emotion--in this case that emotion is hate, hate for everything that you view as to your right.

Why are you replying a post I made speaking to Opportunity Cost?

oh wait - its a chance to attack me without putting forth any actual substance to refute the verifiable substance I presented about the tea party and Trump. Never mind.

 

[MrT]

Maybe from a socialists stand point. People who are against the Constitution and personal liberty will think that way, since he has fought to take away freedoms and give more power to the government. If you are against the founding principles of this country, then sure, he's done a great job destroying those values.

I'm measuring him against his charge of upholding the Constitution (remember that little oath he took?). He's pretty near dead last in that regard.

Except for the second amendment and the equal protection clause which both expanded under his tenure

 

[justabubba]

Yes - that is pretty much right on the money. The best thing the GOP can do - in terms of avoiding destroying the party which is the worst possible result - is to simply accept that Trump is going to get the nomination, try to unite behind that effort, runtime best campaign you can, take the loss in November and then try to make sure it never ever happens again.

But at least they still have an intact party to make that future effort and if they deny Trump the nomination through chicanery and machiavellian machinations - then they risk destroying the party which is a whole lot worse than simply losing an election badly.

Let us remember that Goldwater tanked big time in 64 but the GOP came back four years later to win with Nixon.
MCgovern tanked badly in 72 but Carter came back for the Dems in 76 and won.
A really bad loss can be overcome. But destroying the party - well thats territory that is historic.

you illustrate the parties placing the interests of the party above those of the nation
i cannot subscribe to that

 

[CanadaJohn]

The ability of the establishment to screw up an absolute lay up election is incredible. We're finally coming off the worst President ever, with two Democrat/socialist/statist on the left that will clearly head down the same road to ruin. And they've managed to fight and sabotage each other enough to now give a hideous candidate like Hillary a very good chance of winning. Incredible.

Your premise is bang on, but you lay the blame at the wrong feet - this mess is not the establishment's doing and it was the establishment that saved the Republican Party back in 2014 by ensuring that the Tea Party and other fringe elements didn't get their idiotic hands on winnable Senate races and as a result the Senate came back under Republican control. And now a bunch of idiots and non GOP types have hijacked the nomination process just as winning back the White House became possible. The establishment, in fact, tried to save the Party from itself and failed. Now the GOP is back where it was in 2008 with a bunch of lunatics calling the shots, claiming an anti-establishment message, and the ultimate establishment, insider, power broker, sleazy couple, Bill and Hillary Clinton have an improved chance of taking it all.

 

[justabubba]

Just because your brother-in-law is a moron doesn't mean everyone else is. There is nothing Tea Party about Trump and almost nothing libertarian about Trump. You just hate all three so you dishonestly lump them together because you have no intellectual argument to make against them.

i will disprove your argument with two words:

sarah palin