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Ted Cruz does not care about you, Republican “grown-ups”

Somerville

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Is this just some Liberal Lamestream Media rant or is there a kernel of truth to be found?

Ted Cruz does not care about you, Republican “grown-ups”

A small contingent of the more Tea Party-ish Republican senators has decided to shut down the government unless “Obamacare” is “defunded.” (Or, at least, they plan to threaten to shut down the government.)
<snip>
Cruz doesn’t care if the plan makes sense, either as policy or even as political tactics. If he cared about passing conservative legislation, he wouldn’t spend all of his time purposefully angering his Republican colleagues. If he cared about the Republican Party’s national image and reputation, as opposed to his own image within the conservative activist community, he would have offered rhetorical support for immigration reform, as Rand Paul did. Cruz is in it for himself and himself alone. A majority of Americans want the GOP to be more conciliatory and moderate. A majority of Republicans strongly believe that the party must be even more conservative.

So if all the “grown-ups” — the respectable, professional Republicans — tell Ted Cruz not to do something, he is going to be even more dedicated to doing that thing.
my emphasis

for non-righties, and I include most of the self-labelled Libertarians as being part of the right, the recent rise to prominence of Ted Cruz and other "Tea Party types, seems to show an increasing divide in the American electorate. The Cruz, Chaffetz, Allen West, segment of the GOP has reached the point of "No Compromise!", of True Believerdom, even when what is being advocated by their opponents is what they were all for just a few years ago.

Why have we reached this stage? Does it bode ill for the present day Republican Party alone or could there be even more serious consequences for the nation?
 

shagg

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Is this just some Liberal Lamestream Media rant or is there a kernel of truth to be found?

my emphasis

for non-righties, and I include most of the self-labelled Libertarians as being part of the right, the recent rise to prominence of Ted Cruz and other "Tea Party types, seems to show an increasing divide in the American electorate. The Cruz, Chaffetz, Allen West, segment of the GOP has reached the point of "No Compromise!", of True Believerdom, even when what is being advocated by their opponents is what they were all for just a few years ago.

Why have we reached this stage? Does it bode ill for the present day Republican Party alone or could there be even more serious consequences for the nation?

Teabaggers are the WBC of conservatism. They're in the minority in most of their views, but they talk the loudest so they grab more headlines and give an endless supply of fodder for liberal political comedy. Overall they contribute negatively to the net image of conservatism in general. Whether or not Conservatives will realize this and address it, or pretend they don't exist and continue to count on their votes is anybodies guess.
 

bubbabgone

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Teabaggers are the WBC of conservatism. They're in the minority in most of their views, but they talk the loudest so they grab more headlines and give an endless supply of fodder for liberal political comedy. Overall they contribute negatively to the net image of conservatism in general. Whether or not Conservatives will realize this and address it, or pretend they don't exist and continue to count on their votes is anybodies guess.

World Boxing Council ? Rocky Marciano was heavyweight champ in that org. So the TBs send their thanks.
 

Henrin

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Is this just some Liberal Lamestream Media rant or is there a kernel of truth to be found?

my emphasis

for non-righties, and I include most of the self-labelled Libertarians as being part of the right, the recent rise to prominence of Ted Cruz and other "Tea Party types, seems to show an increasing divide in the American electorate. The Cruz, Chaffetz, Allen West, segment of the GOP has reached the point of "No Compromise!", of True Believerdom, even when what is being advocated by their opponents is what they were all for just a few years ago.

Just because some other republicans were for it years ago does not mean republicans today have to be for it. Lets keep in mind however that the idea was proposed originally by a republican think tank as a possible compromise to be made with democrats but they later retracted the idea. Think tanks job is to come up with ideas and just because they think of something does not mean anyone supports it.

As for the position of no compromise, again, I'm totally for it when offered the ideas that are coming out of Obama and the democratic party.

Why have we reached this stage? Does it bode ill for the present day Republican Party alone or could there be even more serious consequences for the nation?

Repealing Obamacare is an important step to be made to restore the liberty of the people. Of course, it's a bit annoying that they don't seem interested in anything else, but I can't fault them for their efforts here.
 

Somerville

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Repealing Obamacare is an important step to be made to restore the liberty of the people. Of course, it's a bit annoying that they don't seem interested in anything else, but I can't fault them for their efforts here.


Tell us - HOW is "Repealing Obamacare. . . an important step to be made to restore the liberty of the people."?? For those in favour of the ACA, it looks like there is a group of Americans who really, really don't care about their fellow humans. As more of the states publish insurance rates under the ACA, it looks like health insurance will be cheaper for most Americans. The health insurance industry is all in favour of the ACA. Don't those on the right believe corporations are just like humans, with the right of free speech, participation in the political process and the desire to enrich themselves?

I've never understood why the opponents of ACA think destroying the plan increases the "liberty of the people" Are we talking the "liberty" of dying younger?
 

Threegoofs

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Tell us - HOW is "Repealing Obamacare. . . an important step to be made to restore the liberty of the people."??

I've never understood why the opponents of ACA think destroying the plan increases the "liberty of the people" Are we talking the "liberty" of dying younger?

The freedom to step over the dead and dying in the street on your way to buy a new, low priced pickup truck.

The liberty of being able to get an organ transplant the way God intended- by paying for it and not having to compete with those shiftless poor who might need one too.
 

Velvet Elvis

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I love the liberal retardation, and extremism put on display in this thread. To these stupid liberals, if the Tea Party doesn't like 0bama, the solution is to kill all black people. What a bunch of extremist morons.

Tell us - HOW is "Repealing Obamacare. . . an important step to be made to restore the liberty of the people??
0bamacare is a form of slavery. Doctors are slaves in that they will be forced, against their will, to see patients they don't want to see. They'll be forced to charge what they do not want to charge. They'll be forced to provide treatment based on Government regulations, and not their own. Patients are slaves in that Government will decide how serious their condition is, what to take, how much to take, how long to take it. Why liberals are so damn trusting of the Government with their lives, is beyond me.

And just remember...defunding 0bamacare does make people free....free to continue to make stupid choices in their lives, and put themselves into a position where their health is less important than cable TV, iPhones, or even cars they can't afford.

Teabaggers are the WBC of conservatism.
The freedom to step over the dead and dying in the street on your way to buy a new, low priced pickup truck.
THESE quotes are beyond stupid. Seriously? "WBC?" "Stepping over dead and dying?" Since when is the desire to be free from over-burdening government the same as these "God hates Fags" people? Does this mean that you prefer government control over you life? Perhaps a little bit of mid-30's Nazi Germany?

As far as the completely doltish "dead and dying" remark, find me one emergency room that will turn someone away needing that kind of medical attention. What a simpleton's point of view.
 

Threegoofs

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As far as the completely doltish "dead and dying" remark, find me one emergency room that will turn someone away needing that kind of medical attention. What a simpleton's point of view.

Wait- what about the freedom of Emergency department to turn away patients who might not be able to pay?

And how does an ER help someone who needs cancer chemotherapy or chronic care?
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Wait- what about the freedom of Emergency department to turn away patients who might not be able to pay?

And how does an ER help someone who needs cancer chemotherapy or chronic care?

So it is not just on the topic of global warming that you are so far out there, huh?

The ER and nobody else is going to help, there will not be enough money, the govt will be making you purchase all kinds of things you don't want with this precedent, they will have all your medical records and pretty much own you... if you need chemo and they dont think you are the proper candidate, you just do not get it, no recourse...see, right there on page 2237 of Obamacare, referencing page 1088 of the applicable statute, says right there that if your name is threegoofs, even if you change it, you only get the coffee enemas for cancer treatment...

But who cares right? We will all be equal, equally unable to get care...thanks ya ll democrats...we 'preciates you all so soo soooo much....
 

WCH

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Tell us - HOW is "Repealing Obamacare. . . an important step to be made to restore the liberty of the people."?? For those in favour of the ACA, it looks like there is a group of Americans who really, really don't care about their fellow humans. As more of the states publish insurance rates under the ACA, it looks like health insurance will be cheaper for most Americans. The health insurance industry is all in favour of the ACA. Don't those on the right believe corporations are just like humans, with the right of free speech, participation in the political process and the desire to enrich themselves?

I've never understood why the opponents of ACA think destroying the plan increases the "liberty of the people" Are we talking the "liberty" of dying younger?

Hummm, 42 million without health insurance before OC but, still 30 million uninsured after it's implementation.

All these taxes, fees, mandates etc. to ruin the country for insuring only 12 million poor people?

I'd say it stinks.
 

apdst

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Is this just some Liberal Lamestream Media rant or is there a kernel of truth to be found?

my emphasis

for non-righties, and I include most of the self-labelled Libertarians as being part of the right, the recent rise to prominence of Ted Cruz and other "Tea Party types, seems to show an increasing divide in the American electorate. The Cruz, Chaffetz, Allen West, segment of the GOP has reached the point of "No Compromise!", of True Believerdom, even when what is being advocated by their opponents is what they were all for just a few years ago.

Why have we reached this stage? Does it bode ill for the present day Republican Party alone or could there be even more serious consequences for the nation?

If the Liberals aren't reined in, it could spell disaster for the country.
 

apdst

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Tell us - HOW is "Repealing Obamacare. . . an important step to be made to restore the liberty of the people."?? For those in favour of the ACA, it looks like there is a group of Americans who really, really don't care about their fellow humans. As more of the states publish insurance rates under the ACA, it looks like health insurance will be cheaper for most Americans. The health insurance industry is all in favour of the ACA. Don't those on the right believe corporations are just like humans, with the right of free speech, participation in the political process and the desire to enrich themselves?

I've never understood why the opponents of ACA think destroying the plan increases the "liberty of the people" Are we talking the "liberty" of dying younger?

Obamacare is going to destroy the healthcare system in America. That's what it's designed to do, so the Liberals can use it as an excuse to create a total single payer system. Look at the damage you're willing to do to the country and your countrymen, just so you can force socialized medicine upon them.
 

Velvet Elvis

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Wait- what about the freedom of Emergency department to turn away patients who might not be able to pay?
Show me an instance. Gimme one example where someone who needed life-saving medical care was turned away from an emergency room.

And how does an ER help someone who needs cancer chemotherapy or chronic care?
People have the freedom to purchase their own insurance. Sure, it might be a little pricey, but then again so is the iPhone bill. So is the cable bill. So is the internet bill. Priorities need to be addressed. When I was laid off from my "real" job, and had to go work at a Target, I purchased my own insurance. It was a crappy little policy, but I did the responsible thing and bought it. Had to cancel the cable bill (temporarily), but my health too priority. There's also medicare and medicaid for those folks as well.
 

Henrin

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Tell us - HOW is "Repealing Obamacare. . . an important step to be made to restore the liberty of the people."??

Let's see, people are forced to buy health insurance, employers are forced to provide health insurance coverage, doctors are forced to see patients they don't want to see and insurance companies are forced to cover things they don't want to cover which appears to be an expansion of power the president can expand on at will. Another never ending power for the president appears to be telling doctors how to treat their patients and what tests they must do. So yes, removing Obamacare is an important step to take to restore the liberty of the people.

For those in favour of the ACA, it looks like there is a group of Americans who really, really don't care about their fellow humans.

Oh, just give it a rest already. Just because I don't support government involvement in healthcare does not mean I don't care about fellow human beings.

I've never understood why the opponents of ACA think destroying the plan increases the "liberty of the people" Are we talking the "liberty" of dying younger?

That is because you don't understand liberty.
 

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So it is not just on the topic of global warming that you are so far out there, huh?

The ER and nobody else is going to help, there will not be enough money, the govt will be making you purchase all kinds of things you don't want with this precedent, they will have all your medical records and pretty much own you... if you need chemo and they dont think you are the proper candidate, you just do not get it, no recourse...see, right there on page 2237 of Obamacare, referencing page 1088 of the applicable statute, says right there that if your name is threegoofs, even if you change it, you only get the coffee enemas for cancer treatment...

But who cares right? We will all be equal, equally unable to get care...thanks ya ll democrats...we 'preciates you all so soo soooo much....

You really shouldn't be drinking this early.
 

Threegoofs

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Show me an instance. Gimme one example where someone who needed life-saving medical care was turned away from an emergency room.

I've seen it almost on a daily basis when I worked in one. Lots of CTs that show something funny. You know it's probably a malignant tumor, so you send the patient out with a referral. Someone with a strongly suspected TIA, neurologically fine, send them out on aspirin and BP meds they probably can't afford. Wait til next week when they stroke out fatally. Etc,etc.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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You really shouldn't be drinking this early.

Oh gosh, not another fact ridden, logic filled, proof proven gem from goof is it? Wow, just making sure you were awake there, your brain waves were flat lining, so figured you needed a jolt from the paddles to see if you were still with us.
 

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I've seen it almost on a daily basis when I worked in one. Lots of CTs that show something funny. You know it's probably a malignant tumor, so you send the patient out with a referral.
I'm sorry...you must have missed the part about "life-saving." Sounds like each and every one of those folks made it home OK.
 

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I'm sorry...you must have missed the part about "life-saving." Sounds like each and every one of those folks made it home OK.

Yep. And allowing you to step over the bodies guilt free! Doesn't that work out great!

Enjoy your new pickup
 

humbolt

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So it is not just on the topic of global warming that you are so far out there, huh?

The ER and nobody else is going to help, there will not be enough money, the govt will be making you purchase all kinds of things you don't want with this precedent, they will have all your medical records and pretty much own you... if you need chemo and they dont think you are the proper candidate, you just do not get it, no recourse...see, right there on page 2237 of Obamacare, referencing page 1088 of the applicable statute, says right there that if your name is threegoofs, even if you change it, you only get the coffee enemas for cancer treatment...

But who cares right? We will all be equal, equally unable to get care...thanks ya ll democrats...we 'preciates you all so soo soooo much....
I think the possible prospect of coffee enemas got that poster excited. What some will do to get coffee...
 

shagg

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If the Liberals aren't reined in, it could spell disaster for the country.


Obamacare is going to destroy the healthcare system in America. That's what it's designed to do, so the Liberals can use it as an excuse to create a total single payer system. Look at the damage you're willing to do to the country and your countrymen, just so you can force socialized medicine upon them.

The only thing I can glean from this is the fact that your angry. Very very angry.
 

shagg

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Let's see, people are forced to buy health insurance, employers are forced to provide health insurance coverage, doctors are forced to see patients they don't want to see and insurance companies are forced to cover things they don't want to cover which appears to be an expansion of power the president can expand on at will. Another never ending power for the president appears to be telling doctors how to treat their patients and what tests they must do. So yes, removing Obamacare is an important step to take to restore the liberty of the people.

Your arguing for:

1. a persons right to go without health insurance. - people will still be able to go without by either paying a fine or getting a waiver.

2. an employers right to not give health insurance. - again, waivers or fines, or reduce employees to 29 hours like so many have done. you understand many employers already give health insurance though, right?

3. a Doctors right to not see a patient. - depending on the situation, most doctors don't have to take all patients that come looking for care. In the ER its a little different, but ER doctors aren't required to follow up with patients in the long term, just treat and stabilize them and recommend follow up care with primary or a specialist.

4. the POTUS himself is telling doctors how to treat their patients and what tests they can do. - I can only assume your getting at tests needing to be medically relevant to a patients symptoms/condition. If so, the statement defeats itself, as its a cost saving measure designed to prevent abuse of coverage by doctors and hospitals. If your getting at death panels and rationing of care, there is nothing about either in Obamacare despite the spittle flecked memos coming out of conservative offices that state otherwise.

5. The POTUS is doing this all for the power, in some attempt to grasp control of the entire country through healthcare. - Theres a specific section of the forums for conspiracy theories, but this, to me, is tin-foil-pants-on-head tier stuff. Burden of proof is on you here.
 

TheNextEra

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I love the liberal retardation, and extremism put on display in this thread. To these stupid liberals, if the Tea Party doesn't like 0bama, the solution is to kill all black people. What a bunch of extremist morons.

Speaking of retardation, morons, and more importantly lack of reading comprehension, where did anyone mention "killing all black people" because it sure wasn't liberals in this thread.

As for your emergency room comment, no noone gets turned away for LIFE-SAVING treatment that an emergency room can provide. However, what about treatments for cancer, MS, and a host of other debilitating diseases that people get and can't pay for? MS medicatiion (the infusion) costs about $12,000 per month. Now, tell me how a person who is not completely rich supposed to pay for that?
 

Henrin

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Your arguing for:

1. a persons right to go without health insurance. - people will still be able to go without by either paying a fine or getting a waiver.

Yes, I'm arguing for people to be able to take part in commerce they freely decide to take part in. Is that shocking somehow? If I have to pay a fine or get a waiver to not take part in commerce I do not desire to take part in then frankly I'm not free to not take part in commerce without punishment or consequence outside of my making. Btw, the fine and the waiver is a transaction with the government.

2. an employers right to not give health insurance. - again, waivers or fines, or reduce employees to 29 hours like so many have done. you understand many employers already give health insurance though, right?

If I have to change my behavior, pay a fine, get a waiver or reduce the amount of people I'm employing then I am not free nor am I outside of the coercion of the state to influence what I buy and what I provide my employees.

3. a Doctors right to not see a patient. - depending on the situation, most doctors don't have to take all patients that come looking for care. In the ER its a little different, but ER doctors aren't required to follow up with patients in the long term, just treat and stabilize them and recommend follow up care with primary or a specialist.

That is still forcing doctors into labor and since they have the right to their labor there is no merit to the government forcing them to treat anyone or to see anyone and that goes for wherever these doctors might be.

4. the POTUS himself is telling doctors how to treat their patients and what tests they can do. - I can only assume your getting at tests needing to be medically relevant to a patients symptoms/condition. If so, the statement defeats itself, as its a cost saving measure designed to prevent abuse of coverage by doctors and hospitals.

Again, they have the right to decide on what labor they decide to offer and that goes for which tests they desire to do just as well as it does treatment in general. The government has no business telling doctors what tests to run and for what purpose.

Btw, they have already used it outside of what you said with the HIV testing recommendation.
 
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