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Teachers union threatens ‘massive boycott’ of Los Angeles Times

I agree with much of what you say but I DO think teachers should at the very least get paid more...but until they find a way to create a standard then they shouldnt be paid individually. Then salary because poltical...who you know...who you blow...

I think teachers have had their ego's stroked a bit to much.
Their profession is no more noble or good than any other.

They choose their career path.

And I have great respect for homeschoolers, but like people that never have kids have to pay taxes (public schools...greater societal good...all that bull****) then you should still have to pay for public schools. maybe an education voucher would be the way to go for homeschoolers.

I disagree with institutionalized education, so I don't think it serves the public good as much as it is played out to be.

The majority of people were learning to read, write and do math way before the state organized education.
 
I think teachers have had their ego's stroked a bit to much.
Their profession is no more noble or good than any other.

They choose their career path.

I disagree with institutionalized education, so I don't think it serves the public good as much as it is played out to be.

The majority of people were learning to read, write and do math way before the state organized education.

OK...so we disagree...

But I really think you will find that historically boys didnt go to school to learn to read, write, and do rithmatic...historically...until there was a shift in social climate, kids went to school til about 7th grade, then went to work on the farms.
 
OK...so we disagree...

For the most part, yes.

But I really think you will find that historically boys didnt go to school to learn to read, write, and do rithmatic...historically...until there was a shift in social climate, kids went to school til about 7th grade, then went to work on the farms.

They did though.

80% (of white people) literacy rate in the 1870's is very telling.
If they didn't go past 7th grade, it probably wasn't necessary.

I totally against any kind of federal or state involvement in education.
 
read this and see:
//www.mensafoundation.org/Sites/foundation/NavigationMenu/Publications/Journal/Samplearticle/SampleArticle.htm

those home schoolers who go to four year colleges have equivalent college performance when compared to those who attended public schools
however, a smaller portion of the home schooled students go on to higher education ... and that is especially pronounced when compared to students in public school honors programs

compared to the the public school graduates, a smaller portion of the home school graduates appear less qualified - or possibly they are only less inclined - to pursue a higher formal education


Hmmmm....Well Bubba, I would submit to you that you didn't read far enough down to understand your own study....It says:

The average first-year GPAs, credits earned in the first year, ACT Composite test scores, and ACT English, Mathematics, Reading, and Science and Reasoning subtests for home school graduates were all higher than traditional high school graduates.

Also we do have a study from the US Dept. of Education that says:

The U.S. Dept of Education sponsored a study that showed home schooled children's test scores were exceptionally high. Even the median scores for all grades were much bigger than those students of public, Catholic or private schools. For grades one through four, average home schooled students were generally one grade higher than their counterparts in public school. By the equivalent of eighth grade, those home schooled students were generally considered four years ahead of those in public school.

A big part of those results were a consequence of public schools doing very poorly, not just that home schooling performs better. Even then, home schooled students generally surpassed students even from private schools.

Home School Versus Public or Private Education: Which is Better? - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com


Now you can say all you want that by the time that students reach collage level course study that they are statistically the same, you have to also take in to factor the drop out rates of public schools, the rates of how many go on to collage from High School, and so on. The MENSA study in that regard I would say it fatally flawed.


j-mac
 
1. Teaching Math In 1950

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?

2. Teaching Math In 1960

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of th e price, or $80. What is his profit?

3. Teaching Math In 1970

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?

4. Teaching Math In 1980

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Math In 1990

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? ( There are no wrong answers.)

6. Teaching Math In 2006

Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la
producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?
 
1. Teaching Math In 1950

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?

2. Teaching Math In 1960

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of th e price, or $80. What is his profit?

3. Teaching Math In 1970

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?

4. Teaching Math In 1980

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Math In 1990

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and
inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the
preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? ( There are no wrong answers.)

6. Teaching Math In 2006

Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la
producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?


Ahhh that's ****ing GREAT!!!! :lamo


j-mac
 
It's funny because the teachers think you can judge a student by a test. :lol:

Hmm... isn't that the way the local and state governments judge a student?
Isn't that the way Colleges judge a student? Isn't that the way employers judge a former student?


...

:think:
 
Im pretty sure she was making a joke...could have applied to just about anywhere.

That is what sarcasm tags are for.

And for it to be classified as a joke, humor is a requirment.
 
Hmm... isn't that the way the local and state governments judge a student?
Isn't that the way Colleges judge a student? Isn't that the way employers judge a former student?


...

:think:

Definitely and the way the LA times was calculating it, was over a period of 5 years.

So if they really believe that this is how they impart knowledge, they shouldn't have a care in the world and the results should speak for themselves.
 
That is what sarcasm tags are for.

And for it to be classified as a joke, humor is a requirment.

Anyone using it?

sarcmark.jpg
 
Teachers union threatens

The Los Angeles teachers union president said Sunday he was organizing a “massive boycott” of The Times after the newspaper began publishing a series of articles that uses student test scores to estimate the effectiveness of district teachers.

“You’re leading people in a dangerous direction, making it seem like you can judge the quality of a teacher by … a test,” said A.J. Duffy, president of United Teachers Los Angeles, which has more than 40,000 members.

Can you IMAGINE grading someone based on test performance??? No WONDER the teachers union is so upset.

I do believe we over-rely on standardized testing as it leads to "teaching to the test" instead of teaching critical thinking.

However, I think teachers unions have become the enemy of education. I will not side with them unless they adapt policies that stop protecting the worst teachers as if they were equal with the best teachers.
 
I do believe we over-rely on standardized testing as it leads to "teaching to the test" instead of teaching critical thinking.

However, I think teachers unions have become the enemy of education. I will not side with them unless they adapt policies that stop protecting the worst teachers as if they were equal with the best teachers.

Go to a liberal arts college if you want critical thinking.
 
Fixed it for ya.

That goes without saying. I was 22 as a freshman and I bought 27 cases of beer for other freshman that first week of school. jeez.
 
That goes without saying. I was 22 as a freshman and I bought 27 cases of beer for other freshman that first week of school. jeez.


Wow - very similar here too. 23 and freshman in college and friends said my main accomplishment was coordinating plasma drives at the clinic - I'd gather a group together to sell plasma for beer money. If they wanted to drink they had to hit the needle. Worked great all year - never had a dry weekend. Military leadership training really came in handy!
 
Wow - very similar here too. 23 and freshman in college and friends said my main accomplishment was coordinating plasma drives at the clinic - I'd gather a group together to sell plasma for beer money. If they wanted to drink they had to hit the needle. Worked great all year - never had a dry weekend. Military leadership training really came in handy!

LOL! I took PLDC at Ft Jackson, SC. Definitely a big help. Do you remember the names they gave for different leadership styles? There were 3 of them: authoritative - you tell em what you want done, collaborative - you let them decide, and one other - you let them advise but you make the call.
 
So if you can grade a teacher based on how well their students do, does that mean you can rate CEOs based on how well their unionized employees do?

CEOS are graded on the greed-o-meter.
 
LOL! I took PLDC at Ft Jackson, SC. Definitely a big help. Do you remember the names they gave for different leadership styles? There were 3 of them: authoritative - you tell em what you want done, collaborative - you let them decide, and one other - you let them advise but you make the call.

Participative was the third right? God, how did I remember that...
 
Pay should be negotiated on an individual level.
There are a lot of teachers and a lot of people who want to be teachers.
They shouldn't have high pay because we've built it into being some holy rollin, noble profession.
It's a job.

I taught in Georgia. In Georgia, there is no such thing as hard tenure and unions are relatively weak. Base pay is set by the state (not unions) with each school district (usually, but not always, by county) adding a supplement.

The pay should be higher because the qualifications to teach are relatively high compared to other jobs of comparable salaries.

Unionizing has caused disastrous results, especially because your customers are captive to you.
They have to buy the product whether they want it or not.

I am not a big fan of liberal unions, that is to be sure. If you want to get better teachers who are not beholden to liberal unions and ideas, pay them more.

It's not right that I still have to pay for the local school.

It's called taxes. Tuition-free education is considered a basic human right and nearly all developed countries provide tuition-free education through ninth grade.

My wife instructs my kids.

Good for her. Not everyone has the time to do that. There are many two-earner families nowadays...

That's why I said it shouldn't be compulsory, not to forget that the budget would be lean and based on cost efficiency.

Education ought to be compulsory for at least 12 years. High school dropouts are far more likely to be on the public dole than those who graduate.

I've had it with state managed education.

Then get involved and support reforms, including higher pay for teachers, that will actuall improve the situation rather than throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Strong public education has a long history in the U.S. I am not willing to give up on it and in the future when I return to the U.S., I will endeaver to provide each of my students with the best education I can in the social studies as I did before I came here.

The same things have been happening for at least 30 years and they have no intention of really changing for the positive, all the while a bunch of children fall to the way side because of their inaction.

I am not pleased with the liberal movement in the profession. I hated it, in fact.

They have had their chance, they need the boot in total.

There are still excellent schools out there. Part of the problem is the culture toward education. In states and communities that have strong support for education, there are still very good results. Again, I see no compelling reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
 
Homeschooled kids are frequently, if not always the top percentile of educated per grade level in the United States.


j-mac

Most homeschooled children come from upper-middle class backgrounds with parents who themselves have a good education and have the time and resources to devote to their children. Most people do not have that luxury.
 
I am married to an English professor (and me being from the south...oh boy dont we have a lot of fun...) and her family has several teachers as well. I very much value teachers and think they are underpaid and underappreciated. That doesnt change the fact that there are some real piece of **** teachers (like there are professionals in EVERY field) and those people MUST be identified and removed...especially when in such an important role. Teachers HATE testing...God knows I hear it from my relatives all the time. Wah. Our education system is struggling and at SOME point those abject failures have to be identified and removed. People say if you test, then teachers will teach to the test. Well...1-thats only true if they know the test, and 2-Thank GOD...at least they are teaching SOMETHING for a change.

I pretty much agree. Poor teachers need to be removed. However, the testing models often used to evaluate teacher's performance are typically significantly flawed. I don't mind being assessed, but the key is to provide a VALID and ACCURATE assessment of the teacher's performance. There at too many variables to make a straight up and down multiple choice test taken by students to make that type of assessment valid.
 
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