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Tax Reform

Should income/payroll taxes be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 66.7%
  • No

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • Total voters
    6
T

The Real McCoy

www.fairtax.org

What are you thoughts on the abolishment of the income tax, payroll taxes, corporate taxes and other capital gains taxes in exchange for the Fair Tax or other similar NRS tax plans?
 

Kandahar

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Umm I wouldn't want to completely do away with income tax. But I'm completely in favor of lowering, flattening, and simplifying it. I dislike the idea of a national sales tax because it's regressive and inflicts unnecessary hardship on the poor.
 
T

The Real McCoy

Kandahar said:
Umm I wouldn't want to completely do away with income tax. But I'm completely in favor of lowering, flattening, and simplifying it. I dislike the idea of a national sales tax because it's regressive and inflicts unnecessary hardship on the poor.
The poor are entitled to a tax refund up to the poverty line. Actually, everyone is.
 

Kandahar

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The Real McCoy said:
The poor are entitled to a tax refund up to the poverty line. Actually, everyone is.
A flat income tax is still more fair, because it taxes the ability to pay rather than consumption. Steve Forbes suggests a 17% flat tax, with personal deductions that would allow a family of four to pay no taxes on their first $40-50K of income. That seems pretty fair to me.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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The Real McCoy said:
The poor are entitled to a tax refund up to the poverty line. Actually, everyone is.

They are? Did they pay that much in taxes?
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Absolutely yes.

Income taxes were repeatedly deemed unconstitutional until the politicians passed the 16th Amendment.

Perhaps if the government would stop spending so much in the first place it wouldn't need so much money?

That's a novel idea. I should patent it.

Then it's always possible and practical to target a national sales tax to ease the burden on the poor.

Tax TV's, not underwear.

Tax $180 sneakers, not food.

Tax CDs, DVDs, MP3 players, not school supplies.
 
Last edited:

Korimyr the Rat

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Personally, I believe that the income/payroll tax is the fairest and most efficient means of collecting revenue; it does not unfairly target the poor, the way sales taxes do; it does not violate the principle of land ownership, the way property taxes do; it does not destroy family businesses, the way that inheritance taxes do, and it does not filter raise the prices of consumer goods (a hidden tax) the way that corporate taxes do.

Combined with a well-structured capital gains tax, the income tax is the most appropriate means of funding government programs and maintaining the proper circulation of the money supply.
 

Kandahar

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Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Absolutely yes.

Income taxes were repeatedly deemed unconstitutional until the politicians passed the 16th Amendment.
But they DID pass the 16th amendment. So now it's constitutional.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Perhaps if the government would stop spending so much in the first place it wouldn't need so much money?

That's a novel idea. I should patent it.
A good idea to be sure. But what does it have to do with the relative merits of income tax or sales tax?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Then it's always possible and practical to target a national sales tax to ease the burden on the poor.
Not really; it's still taxing consumption.

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Tax TV's, not underwear.
Who spends a larger portion of their income on TVs: The rich or the poor?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Tax $180 sneakers, not food.
Who spends a larger portion of their income on shoes: The rich or the poor?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Tax CDs, DVDs, MP3 players, not school supplies.
Who spends a larger portion of their income on CDs, DVDs, and MP3 players: The rich or the poor?

Your method of taxing certain things but not others would make a national sales tax just as complex as the income tax, as various corporations lobbied to have their products exempt from the sales tax.
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Kandahar said:
But they DID pass the 16th amendment. So now it's constitutional.
You're a deep sea diver, aren't you? All the boats go right over your head.

Kandahar said:
A good idea to be sure. But what does it have to do with the relative merits of income tax or sales tax?
It identifies the real problem, not the problem caused by trying to deal with the real problem. That's how problems get fixed, by treating the disease, not the symptom.

Kandahar said:
Not really; it's still taxing consumption.
Well, that's what should be taxed. Consumption is a volunatry act. Taxing consumption creates a voluntary tax. This is supposed to be a free country, right?

Kandahar said:
Who spends a larger portion of their income on TVs: The rich or the poor?

Who spends a larger portion of their income on shoes: The rich or the poor?

Who spends a larger portion of their income on CDs, DVDs, and MP3 players: The rich or the poor?
Who cares? Read the fourteenth amendment some time. See especially where it says all persons shall recieve equal treatment under the law. That means rich people shouldn't have to pay more money in taxes simple because they have more money.

Besides which, if they're poor, they shouldn't be spending money for TV's and fancy sneakers, they should be saving their money so they won't be po' no mo'.

If they choose to buy things like that, they can pay the taxes on them, too.

And gee whiz golly. If we started taxing the poor to pay for the programs the poor are demanding, and if we started taxing the middle class for the programs the middle class is demanding, then the poor and the middle class might decide that they don't want those programs after all.

That's a scary thought.

Kandahar said:
Your method of taxing certain things but not others would make a national sales tax just as complex as the income tax, as various corporations lobbied to have their products exempt from the sales tax.
My method would enable the taxpayer decide what tax to pay and when, as opposed to the taxpayer simply losing money out of his paycheck with no options whatsoever.
 

Navy Pride

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Kandahar said:
Umm I wouldn't want to completely do away with income tax. But I'm completely in favor of lowering, flattening, and simplifying it. I dislike the idea of a national sales tax because it's regressive and inflicts unnecessary hardship on the poor.
You need to read what fairtax.org says.........The poor are taken care of very well in this plan.......

If that plan was instituted it could fix SS, Medicare, and Medicaid as well as balance the budget and have money left over.............
 

Scarecrow Akhbar

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Korimyr the Rat said:
Personally, I believe that the income/payroll tax is the fairest and most efficient means of collecting revenue; it does not unfairly target the poor, the way sales taxes do; it does not violate the principle of land ownership, the way property taxes do; it does not destroy family businesses, the way that inheritance taxes do, and it does not filter raise the prices of consumer goods (a hidden tax) the way that corporate taxes do.

Combined with a well-structured capital gains tax, the income tax is the most appropriate means of funding government programs and maintaining the proper circulation of the money supply.

The best structure for capital gains is zero percent across the board.
 
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