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- May 24, 2007
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- Libertarian
It seems to me the whole premise of this thread appears to be the belief that the government has some right to be able to tax the church and that it doesn’t do so based on some benevolence.
Such a right does not exist.
Nor does government possess any such benevolence.
Point of fact, preventing churches from discussing political matters is a violation of the First Amendment.
It also violates our history…
Rev. Charles Finney (1792-1875, revivalist and theologian of the Second Great Awakening)
“Christians must vote for honest men and take consistent ground in politics. God cannot sustain this free and blessed country, which we love and pray for, unless the Church will take right ground. Politics are a part of a religion in such a country as this, and Christians (and citizens) must do their duty to the country as a part of their duty to God. It seems sometimes as if the foundations of the nation are becoming rotten, and Christians seem to act as if they think God does not see what they do in politics. But I tell you He does see it, and He will bless or curse this nation, according to the course they [Christians] take [in politics].
- “Hindrances to Revivals,” in Lectures on Revivals of Religion (New York: Levitt, Lord, and Co., 1835), 274-275 (as cited by U-Turn by George Barna and David Barton)
Rev. Willard Spaulding
The pulpit should teach the people not to forget their religion while acting the part of citizens. Singular as it may seem, there are many men who stand will in the church but who are a disgrace to the state. They pray well but the vote infamously…There are multitudes of the most moral and religious members of the community who thus neglect their civil duties. Hence the elections in many cases are carried by the selfish and the debased.
- The Pulpit and the State: A Discourse Preached on Sunday, Feb. 15, 1863. Salem, MA: Charles A. Beckford, 1863.
Rev. Frances Grimke (1850-1937, Pastored the 15th Street Presbyterian Church in Washington D.C. for 50 years)
It is now no longer a question as to whether we are a nation, or a confederation of sovereign and independent states. That question is settled, and settled once for all by the issue [outcome] of the [Civil] War. …The Stars and Stripes, the old flag, will float, as long as it floats, over all these states, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, from the Lakes to the Gulf. If the time ever comes when we shall go to pieces, it will not be form any desire or disposition on the part of the states to pull apart, but from inward corruption -- from the disregard of right principles, from the spirit of greed, from the narrowing lust of gold, from losing sight of the fact that “righteousness exalteth a nation, but that sin is a reproach to any people” [Proverbs 14:34]. It is here where our real danger lies – not in the secession of the States from the Union, but in the secession of the Union itself from the great and immutable principles of right, of justice, of fair play for all regardless of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
- Sermon of Sunday, March 7th, 1909 on maintaining the right principles.
* Frances Grimke was born into slavery.
* Valet in Confederate Army until emancipation.
* Attended Lincoln University, Howard University & Princeton Theological Seminary.
* Helped form the NAACP.
* Pastored the 15th Street Presbyterian Church in Washington D.C. for 50 years
Rev. Matthias Burnett (1749-1803, Pastor of the First Baptist Church in Norwalk)
Consider well the important trust . . . which God . . . [has] put into your hands… To God and posterity you are accountable for [your rights and your rulers]…Let not your children have reason to curse you for giving up those rights and prostrating those institutions which your fathers delivered to you. . . [L]ook well to the characters and qualifications of those you elect and raise to office and places of trust. . . Watch over your liberties and privileges - civil and religious - with a careful eye.
- An Election Sermon, Preached at Hartford, on the Day of the Anniversary Election, May 12, 1803 (Hartford: Printed by Hudson & Goodwin, 1803), pp. 27-28.]
Such a right does not exist.
Nor does government possess any such benevolence.
Point of fact, preventing churches from discussing political matters is a violation of the First Amendment.
It also violates our history…
Rev. Charles Finney (1792-1875, revivalist and theologian of the Second Great Awakening)
“Christians must vote for honest men and take consistent ground in politics. God cannot sustain this free and blessed country, which we love and pray for, unless the Church will take right ground. Politics are a part of a religion in such a country as this, and Christians (and citizens) must do their duty to the country as a part of their duty to God. It seems sometimes as if the foundations of the nation are becoming rotten, and Christians seem to act as if they think God does not see what they do in politics. But I tell you He does see it, and He will bless or curse this nation, according to the course they [Christians] take [in politics].
- “Hindrances to Revivals,” in Lectures on Revivals of Religion (New York: Levitt, Lord, and Co., 1835), 274-275 (as cited by U-Turn by George Barna and David Barton)
Rev. Willard Spaulding
The pulpit should teach the people not to forget their religion while acting the part of citizens. Singular as it may seem, there are many men who stand will in the church but who are a disgrace to the state. They pray well but the vote infamously…There are multitudes of the most moral and religious members of the community who thus neglect their civil duties. Hence the elections in many cases are carried by the selfish and the debased.
- The Pulpit and the State: A Discourse Preached on Sunday, Feb. 15, 1863. Salem, MA: Charles A. Beckford, 1863.
Rev. Frances Grimke (1850-1937, Pastored the 15th Street Presbyterian Church in Washington D.C. for 50 years)
It is now no longer a question as to whether we are a nation, or a confederation of sovereign and independent states. That question is settled, and settled once for all by the issue [outcome] of the [Civil] War. …The Stars and Stripes, the old flag, will float, as long as it floats, over all these states, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, from the Lakes to the Gulf. If the time ever comes when we shall go to pieces, it will not be form any desire or disposition on the part of the states to pull apart, but from inward corruption -- from the disregard of right principles, from the spirit of greed, from the narrowing lust of gold, from losing sight of the fact that “righteousness exalteth a nation, but that sin is a reproach to any people” [Proverbs 14:34]. It is here where our real danger lies – not in the secession of the States from the Union, but in the secession of the Union itself from the great and immutable principles of right, of justice, of fair play for all regardless of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
- Sermon of Sunday, March 7th, 1909 on maintaining the right principles.
* Frances Grimke was born into slavery.
* Valet in Confederate Army until emancipation.
* Attended Lincoln University, Howard University & Princeton Theological Seminary.
* Helped form the NAACP.
* Pastored the 15th Street Presbyterian Church in Washington D.C. for 50 years
Rev. Matthias Burnett (1749-1803, Pastor of the First Baptist Church in Norwalk)
Consider well the important trust . . . which God . . . [has] put into your hands… To God and posterity you are accountable for [your rights and your rulers]…Let not your children have reason to curse you for giving up those rights and prostrating those institutions which your fathers delivered to you. . . [L]ook well to the characters and qualifications of those you elect and raise to office and places of trust. . . Watch over your liberties and privileges - civil and religious - with a careful eye.
- An Election Sermon, Preached at Hartford, on the Day of the Anniversary Election, May 12, 1803 (Hartford: Printed by Hudson & Goodwin, 1803), pp. 27-28.]
