Tax cuts for the wealthy elite never worked

[watsup]

The sum and total of the Republican platform these days is MORE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH! After all, they have to pay back those people who contribute to their campaign coffers. But here’s what those tax cuts for the wealthy elite actually do :
-Spike the annual deficit and the long-term debt (that’s shat happened after every one of those tax cuts)
-Increase the economic inequality between the wealthy elite and the rest of us

You don’t have to believe me:
“The results suggest that tax reforms do not lead to higher economic growth. The effect size of major tax cuts for the rich on real GDP per capita is close to zero and statistically insignificant. Major tax cuts for the rich do not lead to higher growth in either the short or medium run.”

economic consequences of major tax cuts for the rich

Abstract . The last 50 years has seen a dramatic decline in taxes on the rich across the advanced democracies. There is still fervent debate in both political a

academic.oup.com

One of the reasons that the right wing economic propagandists give for the tax cuts for the rich is that it “frees up in estment money”. Actually, there was no need to do this. There has been plenty of investment money available since at least the mid-90s (except, of course, during the Great Recession), and what it actually does is to result in TOO MUCH investment money so that it goes looking for risky investments such as mortgage derivatives, or hedge funds that buy up perfectly good companies, fire a bunch of employees, sell off assets, and leave ruin and unemployment in its wake.

Know how to increase investment money? Give tax cuts to the masses. They will then use that money to invest in PRODUCTS, and those companies can then use their profits to increase infrastructure and employment.
In fact, every single one of those tax cuts should have been given TOTALLY to the masses. We have seen time and again that trickle-down doesn’t work, but we know that trickle up does. If people have money, they are going to spend it.

 

[NatMorton]

Even if tax cuts don't lead to economic growth (a point I would refute), so what? Any society that claims to defend individual liberty -- as ours should though increasingly does not -- should not be interested in confiscating more of what its citizens earn than is absolutely necessary. And tax cuts don't just help the rich. They help everyone who pays taxes.

 

[watsup]

Even if tax cuts don't lead to economic growth (a point I would refute), so what? Any society that claims to defend individual liberty -- as ours should though increasingly does not -- should not be interested in confiscating more of what its citizens earn than is absolutely necessary. And tax cuts don't just help the rich. They help everyone who pays taxes.

Ah yes, a Libertarian blather response. Why am not surprised. I note that you chose not to actually provide info to refute any of my points. Well okay then!

 

[Exquisitor]

When I saw that Trump did the same thing as Bush I went to work doing what I know how.

 

[NatMorton]

Ah yes, a Libertarian blather response. Why am not surprised. I note that you chose not to actually provide info to refute any of my points. Well okay then!

No, I'm arguing a different point. Perhaps you should read my post again.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

And tax cuts don't just help the rich. They help everyone who pays taxes.

Uh, they help the wealthy far more, that is the point. Income/wealth disparity increases as tax rates decline.

PS.....sorry for your loss of a thread.....

 

[NatMorton]

Uh, they help the wealthy far more, that is the point. Income/wealth disparity increases as tax rates decline.

PS.....sorry for your loss of a thread.....

Yes, the more taxes you pay the more tax breaks help you. So what?

And yes, the thread is no longer active, but unfortunately for the left, the issue will be much harder to shut down, and especially so if the House switches sides this year. We can save that for a future thread.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

So what?

You have this habit of demanding folks "read your post", yet you just can't seem to follow your own advise....so, here goes a second time:

Income/wealth disparity increases as tax rates decline.

 

[NatMorton]

You have this habit of demanding folks "read your post", yet you just can't seem to follow your own advise....so, here goes a second time:

Income/wealth disparity increases as tax rates decline.

Again, so what?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Again, so what?

If you want to show that high levels of wealth disparity is a good thing for a society, go for it.

 

[NatMorton]

If you want to show that high levels of wealth disparity is a good thing for a society, go for it.

Sure thing. Provided the government is funded sufficiently to perform the roles it must do, then there is absolutely no harm that comes from some citizens growing very wealthy and much more wealthy than others. In fact, it's probably a sign of a very healthy economy.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Sure thing. Provided the government is funded sufficiently to perform the roles it must do, then there is absolutely no harm that comes from some citizens growing very wealthy and much more wealthy than others. In fact, it's probably a sign of a very healthy economy.

That is not any sort of proof countries with high wealth/income disparity have better outcomes for that society. That is a unsubstantiated (libertarian) opinion.

 

[Jay59]

The sum and total of the Republican platform these days is MORE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH!

What fantasy world are you living in?

After all, they have to pay back those people who contribute to their campaign coffers. But here’s what those tax cuts for the wealthy elite actually do :
-Spike the annual deficit and the long-term debt (that’s shat happened after every one of those tax cuts)
-Increase the economic inequality between the wealthy elite and the rest of us

Economically, this is not sound. Politically, it's a joke in poor taste.

You don’t have to believe me:
“The results suggest that tax reforms do not lead to higher economic growth. The effect size of major tax cuts for the rich on real GDP per capita is close to zero and statistically insignificant. Major tax cuts for the rich do not lead to higher growth in either the short or medium run.”

economic consequences of major tax cuts for the rich

Abstract . The last 50 years has seen a dramatic decline in taxes on the rich across the advanced democracies. There is still fervent debate in both political a

academic.oup.com

That's a rather bizarre little study. For one thing, you have to dig deeply before you find which tax cuts are considered for the wealthy. So deep that I could not find them.

It's also interesting that the study omits the first half of the 1960s which was a period of major policy change. Indeed, there was a lack of number all the way through.

One of the reasons that the right wing economic propagandists give for the tax cuts for the rich is that it “frees up in estment money”.

That's a new one on me, but they are talking about 18 countries and their associated mouthpieces.

Actually, there was no need to do this. There has been plenty of investment money available since at least the mid-90s (except, of course, during the Great Recession), and what it actually does is to result in TOO MUCH investment money so that it goes looking for risky investments such as mortgage derivatives, or hedge funds that buy up perfectly good companies, fire a bunch of employees, sell off assets, and leave ruin and unemployment in its wake.

That's a remarkably poor illustration of how businesses operate. It makes a better illustration of how things collapse when the business fails.

Know how to increase investment money? Give tax cuts to the masses.

So, you favored the 2017 US tax cut aimed at the middle class. Interesting.

They will then use that money to invest in PRODUCTS, and those companies can then use their profits to increase infrastructure and employment. In fact, every single one of those tax cuts should have been given TOTALLY to the masses. We have seen time and again that trickle-down doesn’t work, but we know that trickle up does. If people have money, they are going to spend it.

The 2017 tax reform did produce record low unemployment and increased personal income for hourly-paid employees. You may finally have a valid point.

 

[NatMorton]

That is not any sort of proof countries with high wealth/income disparity have better outcomes for that society. That is a unsubstantiated (libertarian) opinion.

And your statements are not proof that they don't.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

And your statements are not proof that they don't.

This is chicken shit debating, YOU created the argument in the second post, and reiterated in the following posts, that wealth/income disparity causes absolutely no harm to a society.

If you are not going to back this argument, don't respond to this post.

 

[NatMorton]

This is chicken shit debating, YOU created the argument in the second post, and reiterated in the following posts, that wealth/income disparity causes absolutely no harm to a society.

If you are not going to back this argument, don't respond to this post.

I'll respond where and when I wish to. My point stands. You are making statements, and so am I.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I'll respond where and when I wish to. My point stands. You are making statements, and so am I.

You did not make any point, you expressed opinion and still have not backed it with any fact.

 

[Warcok]

12% flat taxa rate across the board, no deductibles, end the CTC welfare payments, finally having the bottom 50% of freeloaders paying their fare share.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

No, I'm arguing a different point. Perhaps you should read my post again.

Right. Deflection is a tactic you often employ Nat. I've noticed that.

 

[rickc]

 

[HangLow]

The sum and total of the Republican platform these days is MORE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH! After all, they have to pay back those people who contribute to their campaign coffers. But here’s what those tax cuts for the wealthy elite actually do :
-Spike the annual deficit and the long-term debt (that’s shat happened after every one of those tax cuts)
-Increase the economic inequality between the wealthy elite and the rest of us

You don’t have to believe me:
“The results suggest that tax reforms do not lead to higher economic growth. The effect size of major tax cuts for the rich on real GDP per capita is close to zero and statistically insignificant. Major tax cuts for the rich do not lead to higher growth in either the short or medium run.”

economic consequences of major tax cuts for the rich

Abstract . The last 50 years has seen a dramatic decline in taxes on the rich across the advanced democracies. There is still fervent debate in both political a

academic.oup.com

One of the reasons that the right wing economic propagandists give for the tax cuts for the rich is that it “frees up in estment money”. Actually, there was no need to do this. There has been plenty of investment money available since at least the mid-90s (except, of course, during the Great Recession), and what it actually does is to result in TOO MUCH investment money so that it goes looking for risky investments such as mortgage derivatives, or hedge funds that buy up perfectly good companies, fire a bunch of employees, sell off assets, and leave ruin and unemployment in its wake.

Know how to increase investment money? Give tax cuts to the masses. They will then use that money to invest in PRODUCTS, and those companies can then use their profits to increase infrastructure and employment.
In fact, every single one of those tax cuts should have been given TOTALLY to the masses. We have seen time and again that trickle-down doesn’t work, but we know that trickle up does. If people have money, they are going to spend it.

​

 

[rickc]

 

[Craig234]

The sum and total of the Republican platform these days is MORE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH! After all, they have to pay back those people who contribute to their campaign coffers. But here’s what those tax cuts for the wealthy elite actually do :
-Spike the annual deficit and the long-term debt (that’s shat happened after every one of those tax cuts)
-Increase the economic inequality between the wealthy elite and the rest of us

You don’t have to believe me:
“The results suggest that tax reforms do not lead to higher economic growth. The effect size of major tax cuts for the rich on real GDP per capita is close to zero and statistically insignificant. Major tax cuts for the rich do not lead to higher growth in either the short or medium run.”

economic consequences of major tax cuts for the rich

Abstract . The last 50 years has seen a dramatic decline in taxes on the rich across the advanced democracies. There is still fervent debate in both political a

academic.oup.com

One of the reasons that the right wing economic propagandists give for the tax cuts for the rich is that it “frees up in estment money”. Actually, there was no need to do this. There has been plenty of investment money available since at least the mid-90s (except, of course, during the Great Recession), and what it actually does is to result in TOO MUCH investment money so that it goes looking for risky investments such as mortgage derivatives, or hedge funds that buy up perfectly good companies, fire a bunch of employees, sell off assets, and leave ruin and unemployment in its wake.

Know how to increase investment money? Give tax cuts to the masses. They will then use that money to invest in PRODUCTS, and those companies can then use their profits to increase infrastructure and employment.
In fact, every single one of those tax cuts should have been given TOTALLY to the masses. We have seen time and again that trickle-down doesn’t work, but we know that trickle up does. If people have money, they are going to spend it.

I think there's a 'dirty little secret' that giving more money to the richest CEO's probably does NOTHING to increase productivity - that they would do the same productivity if they were paid far less. The CEO of a big company doesn't say they'd rather be a wage slave if they only make 25 times workers instead of 250 times. In fact, their pay incentives can cause HARM to productivity as they pursue short-term rewards.

 

[US&THEM]

Even if tax cuts don't lead to economic growth (a point I would refute), so what? Any society that claims to defend individual liberty -- as ours should though increasingly does not -- should not be interested in confiscating more of what its citizens earn than is absolutely necessary. And tax cuts don't just help the rich. They help everyone who pays taxes.

Another example of why no one ever takes a Libertarian seriously.

 

[watsup]

individual liberty

n confiscating more of what its citizens earn t

Like I said, Libertarian blather. Has nothing at all to do with the central theme of the OP.

And tax cuts don't just help the rich. They help everyone who pays taxes.

And tax cuts for the masses instead the wealthy elite don’t just help the masses. They help everyone who pays taxes.